SKNES: Architecture of Aggression

However, since you must pry, we will not fight on your behalf for two reasons. Though we do not not condone the destruction of the Coptic Church by the Muslims, we have examined the events leading up to the declaration of the crusade and hold the Copts to be the general cause of the war, by invading the Fatmids.

The war actually started 200 years earlier. It is important to note that the Kingdom of Makuria was a Coptic state, allied with Axum, that was conquered by the Fatimid Caliphate.

From update 0

Deep in Africa, where Islam has yet to fully penetrate, lie two remnants of antiquity. The Kingdom of Makuria is the last remnant of the Nubian civilization that once rivaled Egypt itself, but as a Christian realm it is deeply threatened by the Fatimids and its days appear numbered. South of Makuria lies the Kingdom of Axum, an Ethiopian nation and Christianity’s southernmost frontier. Axum seems better prepared than Makuria to hold off a future Fatimid assault, but it too has grim chances of survival.

Though not stated, it is inferred that the Fatimid Caliphate was at war with these two countries.

From update 1

The Fatimids quickly overran Makuria. However, in a last-ditch effort to salvage his country, the king of Makuria accepted vassalage to the Fatimids if he kept his lands, with the exception of the coast, and was allowed to maintain Coptic Christianity as an accepted religion. The Nubian civilization lived on, if subjugated. The Fatimids themselves are preparing to move on to their next target, Axum; but Axum will not be so easy to conquer, as they

Here, you can clearly see that the Fatimids were the aggressors in this war. One could also infer that they declared war, as the Coptic states would never have done something so dumb. Also, in our timeline, (which happens mostly accurately until the NES starts), the Muslims attacked first.

From update 3

Muslims began settling to the south in North Africa, farther inland from the coast, although the highly arid climate placed a hamper on the expansion. The Fatimids completed a road network along the coast and banks of the Nile River, boosting trade. By Caliph’s act, Makuria was seized; its lands fully annexed, its vassalage disbanded, and its people absorbed – with all the effects that brought.

You can obviously tell that the Fatimids are imperialistic aggressors from this act. It is also inferred that the Nubians rose up here (see the map).

Your evidence that the Copts started the war are based on Axum's reclamation of Makurian lands. This is like saying that Britain was the aggressor against Germany in WWII in our timeline, with Britain being Axum, Makuria being France, and the Fatimids being Germany. Rather, they were liberating the Copts from the occupying power. They even reinstated the royal family of Makuria:

From update 7

The war for the Nile continued. Despite an attempt by Axum to bolster its defenses by allowing the old Makurian royal family direct control, the Zengid Emirate sent nearly its entire – massive – army to help defend the Fatimid Caliphate. Not only were the Zengid foot soldiers greater in number than the Ethiopians, they also were of greater quality and training, something that would prove decisive in this war for the Nile.

They even offered peace, and a perfectly fair treaty that would have seen Muslim lands belonging to Muslims, and Coptic lands belonging to Copts, essentially a status quo ante bellum:

From: The Kingdom of Axum
To: The Fatimid Caliphate

Our nations have suffered greatly as a result of the wars that have been raging throughout the last 200 years. War has ravaged the lands of the Nile. We offer you a truce. Will you accept?

From: The Kingdom of Axum
To: The Fatimid Caliphate

What is your "rightful land"? We will happily retreat out of Egypt, but Nubia will never fall under the influence of muslim infidels like you.

OOC: Sorry for the rather late reply, I missed this earlier. Also, sorry <nuke>, but I simply cannot let this go unchallenged. I'm also itching to roleplay the Axumite government-in-exile to conduct diplomacy.
 
I'm itching to just dedicate my vast military to destroying what's left of the Axumite government, just so I don't have to hear it whine even more.
 

Sorry, probably should have mentioned this previously. The fact is, pretty much the entire Coptic organizational structure was wiped out when Axum was invaded, and there was little except the leader left. When the leader stayed behind, the whole thing collapsed on itself.
 
Sorry, probably should have mentioned this previously. The fact is, pretty much the entire Coptic organizational structure was wiped out when Axum was invaded, and there was little except the leader left. When the leader stayed behind, the whole thing collapsed on itself.
OOC: What about the Copts in Egypt proper? Why did the Coptic Pope ever leave Alexandria, anyway?
 
Persecuted by Fatimids IIRC, so he went to Axum. (That may not be true)
Also, is there a Christian population in the Holy Land? It would seem so. Also, IIRC, any Islamic persecution against Christians other then the Jizya (which really isn't that bad) is kind of OOC for this time. Egypt was still actually mostly Christian at this time OTL, mostly because conversions are historically painfully slow between the Abrahamic faiths. It's a different story when converting pagans, though.
 
Also, is there a Christian population in the Holy Land? It would seem so. Also, IIRC, any Islamic persecution against Christians other then the Jizya (which really isn't that bad) is kind of OOC for this time. Egypt was still actually mostly Christian at this time OTL, mostly because conversions are historically painfully slow between the Abrahamic faiths. It's a different story when converting pagans, though.

There is a small group of Christians in the Holy Land.
Honestly, I'll admit it was kind of my fault for not putting more Christians in Egypt to begin with. This being SKNES, of course, I can brush it off by saying it's something about this timeline. Ah well :p
 
There is a small group of Christians in the Holy Land.
Honestly, I'll admit it was kind of my fault for not putting more Christians in Egypt to begin with. This being SKNES, of course, I can brush it off by saying it's something about this timeline. Ah well :p

Too bad. If it was, I'd have all of Egypt by now.
 
There is a small group of Christians in the Holy Land.
Honestly, I'll admit it was kind of my fault for not putting more Christians in Egypt to begin with. This being SKNES, of course, I can brush it off by saying it's something about this timeline. Ah well :p
Also more Christians should have been in Syria and Palestine. :p
 
A New Emperor Rises

Constantine XI, Emperor of the Romans, Lord Protector of Sicily and Bulgaria, Defender of the Faith, was noted for two things, his lineage and his foreign policy. He was the direct grandson of Constantine IX, the first Emperor of the Angora Dynasty, which had brought the Roman Empire back to the true faith officially, though by now it was public knowledge of the true identity of his predecessor, Constantine XIII, who was a member of a secret Orthodox order which went on to become the central core of the restored Church of Constantinople. The close relationship between the Church of Constantinople and the new Emperor did not die with the rise of the Angoran dynasty, and with the rise of the Angoran dynasty, it is generally believed to have begun a generally increased amount of influence and cooperation between the Imperial administration and the Patriarchate. However, the Emperor was also known for his stances during the outbreak of the Zengid Crusade, which also happened to be the first crusade not focused against the Roman Empire. Constantine XI believed the Roman Empire to be friends with its Christian brothers in the west, though he refused to submit his Empire to the words of the Pope and join the Crusade. However, the Emperor could not live forever, and tragically he would die in the June of 970 AD, much to the mourning of the people of Constantinople. And with the death of the Emperor, so would the Empire&#8217;s neutrality also die.

The Emperors son would assume the throne, being crowned Emperor Heraclius II two days following his father&#8217;s death. However, he was nothing like his father. Though his father believed in tolerance of both the Muslim and Catholic, preferring to focus his efforts on converting the Hellenist at home, Heraclius was not faced with these circumstances. His father&#8217;s efforts had been widely successful, and the followers of Hellenism represented a tiny minority in the Empire. Heraclius always had dreams of conquest as a boy, and as a youth, he wished to join in the Tagmata, which his father had created. However, he was not permitted to join, as he was the heir to the Empire. Instead, he got involved in a religious movement which believed the Orthodox Church had a right and duty to actively oppose the Roman Church, and should eventually reclaim the city of Rome in the name of god and the Roman Empire.

When Heraclius became the Emperor, this teaching had become his solid belief. Thus he summoned the King of Armenia and the Duke of Taman, along with his vassal Kings, to meet with him in Constantinople, and they discussed what they should do. It quickly became obvious to Heraclius that his allies supported him, and all that mattered was how they would conduct this endeavor. It was the unanimous consensus among the rulers that now was the opportune moment to strike the Heretics of Rome. However, there were also other reasons that the &#8220;Alliance of the Orthodox Nations&#8221; would begin this crusade of their own.

To: The World
From: The Roman Empire
CC: All Christians


It is with great distinction that today we announce the declaration of a holy war against the Papal State and the Holy Roman Empire by the Roman Empire and it&#8217;s vassals of Sicily and Bulgaria, the Kingdom of Armenia, and the Duchy of Taman. We fight now for ourselves, but for the name of Christ, that the heretic Pope who twists Christ&#8217;s holy message for his own personal interests be defeated. We also shall liberate the city of Rome from the heretics, and reclaim the Imperial territory of the Roman Empire, including but not limited to: Crete and the Ionian Islands. It is our hope that when our troops, blessed by God, are successful in this endeavor, that peace shall return and a path be opened for the Catholic church to seek forgiveness for its transgressions and rejoin in communion with its brothers in the East.

To: All Orthodox Christians
From: Emperor Heraclius II on behalf of the Orthodox Church


Our motives are not for personal gain, but rather sacrifice. We shall sacrifice ourselves, just as Jesus sacrificed himself, so we may once again see a day when all Christians are united under god. However, today is not that day. The Pope, a heretic, has led many of Christ&#8217;s followers astray, and we must take it upon ourselves to defeat this mere man who believes himself God, so that his followers may one day see the light and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
From: The Kingdom of Sicily, vassal of the Roman Empire
To: The Nations of the World, Muslim, Christian, or Pagan


What they said. ^
 
To: The Western Catholic Empire
From: King Tigranes V of Armenia

We are putting a formal acknowledgement of our agreement to the Roman DOW. Prepare to be assimilated converted.
 
Attack the Vandals more often.

This is just ideal.
 
...why the hell did I even think you were going to be better than Amon Savag, Gamez? Fine. Time to make war plans.
First of all, I need all members of the HRE (the true Roman Empire) to look at the group and answer my post.
Second, SK, could we please get an order extension of 1-2 days? I need time to fully plan this. The "Romans" in the east shall not set foot on the shores of Venice, no matter what.
 
And YOU claim that this "holy" war is fought against one twisting a religion for their personal interests. At least we had a good casus belli.
 
lol. After killing countless Christians in an attempt to destroy Orthodox Christianity, it dares to suggest it is fighting for Christianity when attacking those who stopped them from killing Christians in the past and is currently fighting to save Ethiopian Christians.

I just had to respond. They lost their islands because they were murdering Christians, if they would start helping them (and not declaring war on them) maybe they could get them back one day.

As the ghost of the old Popes. I curse the Byzantine Empire :p
 
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