SKNES: Architecture of Aggression

[mythmonster2]

To: The Roman Empire
From: Your vassal, the Kingdom of Sicily

We apologize profusely for our involvement in the Crusade. Several of the feudal lords in the kingdom had banded together, mainly due to trade interests. They believed they could improve their profits from trade and commerce through elimination of the Vandal Sultanate or from the capture of Jerusalem from the Zengid Emirate. It was they who had brokered an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire and who commanded the ships lent to the Crusaders. Rest assured, they have been removed and summarily executed for crimes against the Roman Empire. We have also reduced the amount of power these particular lordships hold, in order to ensure their lust profits do not undermine Imperial policy.

However, we offer no apology to the Vandals who have been ousted by the actions of these lords. Long have they pillaged our lands and long have they been a scourge to trade. The Mediterranean is a safer place without their threat. But as of this date, the Kingdom of Sicily will be engaged in the Crusade no longer.

 

[SamSniped]

To: Nations of the World
From: The Roman Empire

We must condemn the actions of the Crusaders in their dishonorable attack upon the Vandalic Sultanate. Though we certainly do not condone the actions of the Vandals over the years, it is not proper for the Christian nations of the west to lower themselves to delivering a sneak attack upon that nation. Furthermore, we wish to say that, as the Holy "Roman" Empire has no claim on Crete, which was stolen from the Roman Empire by the Vandalic Sultanate years ago, and as they also apparently have no desire to actually attack the Holy Land, we wish to see Crete and any other formerly Vandal possessions in the Aegean returned to us at once.

So much for your neutrality.

 

[Lokki242]

OOC: Sorry for accidentally sending orders SK, I was too excited that I failed to notice the DON'T SEND MESSAGES thing. Anyways;

To: The Republic of Venice, The Roman Empire, The Duchy of Taman, Transoxiana
We humbly request permission to set up trading posts in your lands, as to bring the riches of the East and West to the West and East, respectively.

I've gained permission from the Roman Emperor. Taman, Venice, what say you to this?

 

[SamSniped]

To: The Crusaders of the Unholy Roman Empire
CC: The Zengid Emirate
From: Geiseric V, Sultan of Carthage, King of the Vandals

We would like you to note that your crusaders are no longer welcome in Vandal waters, and any ships flying the Crusader flag will be destroyed by our vessels. We will permit no support to the tools of Shaitan against our brothers of the Faith.

Just as proof that I am not hallucinating. Emphasized to show the part where the Vandals effectively said, "I will attack you."

 

[TheLizardKing]

To: The Crusaders of the Unholy Roman Empire
CC: The Zengid Emirate
From: Geiseric V, Sultan of Carthage, King of the Vandals

We would like you to note that your crusaders are no longer welcome in Vandal waters, and any ships flying the Crusader flag will be destroyed by our vessels. We will permit no support to the tools of Shaitan against our brothers of the Faith.

Whoo, big sizes. Anyhow, it's all interpretation really. The point still stands that the Chivalrous Christian nations attacked the Vandals, either through misinterpretation, or opportunism. That, our you all simply forgot who you were crusading against. If that's not the case, then you guys have terrible aim.

 

[SamSniped]

...
I am this close to losing my ****, and making myself seem like a ****.
Okay, since you people apparently can't understand words, let me show you a map from last turn.

Spoiler :

See that brown color of the Vandals? If I was them, I would consider this to be "Vandal Waters" (outlined in brown):

Spoiler :

Now, The problem is that I didn't know where the enemy would attack, and I would need to both attack and defend with my navy, inevitably entering "their" water. Well, guess what? They were a very dangerous threat, and I dealt with them accordingly. Also, TLK, you appear to lie, since you said you wouldn't attempt diplomacy, and I consider this at the very least OOC diplomatic banter.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Is there a triangle is the Pacific between the Western Coast of America and Hawaii that is to be considered purely American Waters? Seeing as he at no point specificied where he considered his territorial waters (I'd imagine waters a few miles out to see, not giant swathes of the Mediterranean), I'd imagine that it's your duty to at the least ask him, rather than make enormous assumptions, that completely de-rail crusades, and cost the lives of thousands. I'm not trying to argue whether or not you had a good reason for taking out the Sultanate. My problem is the completely horrid way you went about it, and then trying to give some type of terrible reasoning for the diplomatic mess you've just created for yourselves. Even with the reasoning that he would consider those grossly exaggerated areas strictly his territory, it still provides you with another (albeit slightly detoured) route around Sicily, making such an attack again, completely unnecessary. But then again, to most people, the areas highlighted would probably be considered little more than the middle of the Mediterranean, and the closest thing to international waters the time period would have. The Vandals may even consider those waters to be 'home', but I sincerely doubt they'd ever try to enforce such a large arbitrary zone such as that. Regardless, the whole scenario begs the question; are you diplomatically irresponsible enough to make a massive assumption like that, or opportunistic enough to try to fight my point that your invasion of the Vandel Sultanate was purely opportunistic.

As for 'dealing with them accordingly' it hardly takes a military master-mind to sneak attack someone. You declared a Holy War against me, but wasted 10 years fighting the Vandals. I wonder how your people feel about that. Killing Muslims? Sure. Taking back the Holy Land? Far from it. Rather, the fate of Axum was sealed this year, due in large part to the fact you didn't so much as send a token invasion force into the Levant. 10 years is a long time to dilly-dally, especially in this time period.

And I frankly don't care what you consider this. For all purposes, consider this me amused, OOC, as the buyers-remorse sets in. I haven't attempted diplomacy with any of you 'Crusaders', as it's a waste of my time. I have no interest in peace at this point, and am enjoying all the extra-time you have given me to prepare for your eventual assaults, and of course organize my own assaults against Europe itself, with the host of enemies you just created by attacking a relatively neutral nation, and involving a vassal of another neutral nation in your conflict, without so much as attempting to get the approval of the leading nation.

 

[Grandkhan]

POOC: You could have very easily bypassed Vandal waters. You could have sailed between Italy and Sicily, and then north of Crete. Your interpretation of Vandal waters includes Malta, which was Sicilian territory. You could have sailed past that - its not Vandal waters in any way. Vandal Waters doesn't include some massive triangle of empty sea in the middle of the Med.

There were many, many ways that the Crusaders could have travelled without going through Vandal waters. Do not pretend that you had some noble purpose or were acting out of necessity. This was a hostile and dishonourable sneak attack on a nation you had signed a pact of non-aggression with. Do not pretend otherwise.

 

[Lokki242]

OOC: SamSniped just stop arguing with them, changing their views won't help since you plan on killing them.

And would you please answer my question about trading posts in Venice and the once Vandalic islands?

 

[SamSniped]

@TLK-But it takes a person with decent amount of skill to plan a three-pronged attack, eventually heading for you. Unfortunately one part was stopped by heavier resistance than I thought, and one part was stopped by the Byzantine half-breeds who said they would try and play nicely with the HRE. Oh well, the only part that was successful killed a threat that would have been a pain in the arse, but little else. Too bad. It would have been interesting to see that work, you blockaded and under attack from at least three directions this turn. But as usual, it doesn't work. I plan the first crusade solely? Nope, fails, and the Byzantines broke that treaty by invading the Italian Peninsula while under Amon Savag. Second one? 2/3 doesn't even get started, for some reason, even though the contingencies I placed weren't even enacted by my math (seriously, SK, IIRC I said below 20 units. Sort of annoying, but makes this turn more fun). And people are complaining about one third succeeding? FFS, the only sort of support I got was the HRE members giving me their troop numbers, and agreement with my plan. No "Thanks for your work, Sam!", no "Good idea!" (except from Sicily, but our ideas were the same, just about). Hell, the goddamn emperor wasn't nice enough to give the troop numbers. He said at first, "I will give what is sufficient to the attack." Seriously, it is stuff like this that pisses me off. I plan out entire mass invasions, and people still treat me like I'm an idiot! Hell, I would rather see SK tell me in the update, "The soldiers all died fighting valiantly" than "oh, the easy part succeeded, but one part decided to stop despite your clear orders, and the third was turned away because someone told your stronger navy that 'sorry, no'." SK, this is not meant to be of any insult to you-I love your skills as GM-I am just using this as an example of my frustration with these people against me essentially saying, "LOL. You suck because you invaded someone weaker than you for no reason".
(More IC than the above) I cannot wait to see your men crushed under the soles of the Marinas' boots, them singing their anthem in Latin, their swords cutting through the heathens who dare insult their nation as one of cowards and backstabbers.
Long story short, the Vandals are gone, thank every god in the world, and there is nothing you can do about it by trying to talk to me about "fairness" and saying "you shouldn't have...". Their mainland is independent, the islands are mine, and I will defend them to the last Marina alive.

EDITLokki- Not until after the Crusade. Once this unfortunate thing is over, I will be happy to establish trade with you.

 

[TheLizardKing]

This is just too good to be true.

 

[Terrance888]

@ SamSniped, no one else will plan an invasion because you do it so well.

@ All: 1) The Victor writes the History Books. 2) It is impossible to convince an opponent in a NES to change his or her opinion once they are set. EVER. The best you can do is to convince the nuetral parties for or against your point of view. (lesson learned in ImmacuNES) 3) The best way to convince your opponent he is wrong is by beating his nation so thoroughly that you erase every trace of it from existance, then you write a history book about it. 4) Obviously, we will win.

 

[SamSniped]

"3) The best way to convince your opponent he is wrong is by beating his nation so thoroughly that you erase every trace of it from existance, then you write a history book about it."
The true secret behind my plans. And thanks
Well, I am still frustrated and tired. I'm going to get some sleep, and then continue with that war plan. You will see how the destruction of the Vandals helped, TLK. In due time.

 

[Nuka-sama]

I hereby revoke the right during the Crusade for electors to do diplomacy without preapproval from the Emperor

 

[Terrance888]

Like we ever had that right.

Or the Emperor ever spent more than a few moments off his throne. :/

 

[GamezRule]

OOC: Uhh, why would I have said yes? Feel free to invade me for the sake of "fairness" if you'd like.

 

[TheLizardKing]

3) The best way to convince your opponent he is wrong is by beating his nation so thoroughly that you erase every trace of it from existance, then you write a history book about it.

Ah, fond memories of Axum already.

I look forward to facing everyone in battle. Not much else to say past that I enjoyed the second turn I have been given, and the boost you gave my Muslim street-cred.

 

[Jehoshua]

To: Nations of the World
From: The Roman Empire

We must condemn the actions of the Crusaders in their dishonorable attack upon the Vandalic Sultanate. Though we certainly do not condone the actions of the Vandals over the years, it is not proper for the Christian nations of the west to lower themselves to delivering a sneak attack upon that nation. Furthermore, we wish to say that, as the Holy "Roman" Empire has no claim on Crete, which was stolen from the Roman Empire by the Vandalic Sultanate years ago, and as they also apparently have no desire to actually attack the Holy Land, we wish to see Crete and any other formerly Vandal possessions in the Aegean returned to us at once.

To: the Roman Empire
From: the Papal States

Why should the crusaders, who seek to purge from this world the savage taint of the Zengid Sultanate (who's very presence defiles the Holy Land) and their allies return Crete and the aegean posessions to the Roman Empire, when it does not even assist their christian brothers against the muslim enemy?

When Constantinople takes up the cross and assists in this crusade, then perhaps such a territorial transfer can be given in good faith. However as it stands, it is incongruous that a supposedly christian state which stands in discraceful neutrality against an enemy who seeks only the destruction of all christs faithful (as so recently seen in the extirpation of Axum and the murder of the coptic patriarch) be granted gifts by the faithful.

The Pope

 

[DC123456789]

Finally we have someone who is actually saying something productive.

To: The Roman Empire

Think about your options. On one hand, you have the Christians, the Holy Roman Empire. They helped you, over one hundred years ago, when the Empire was controlled by the Hellenists, during the Orthodox rebellions. Though the Byzantine Crusade was ultimately unsuccessful, surely you must feel some gratitude towards them for having helped you in those horrifying times. Also note that they are stronger, on the long run, than the Muslims. Though they did act somewhat dishonourably during the conquest of Carthage, one can easily see that this was revenge for all the raiding done long before. They are even willing to give up some land to you, if only you would join their crusade.

On the other hand, you have the Muslims, an alliance between the Fatimid Caliphate, the Zengid Emirate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Sharifate of Hijaz, and what remains of the Vandals. They done nothing to you but conquer your lands and convert tens of thousands from Christianity. They have committed unspeakable crimes, and brought nothing but raids and invasions. Surely you cannot possibly miss the Vandals, the scourge of the Mediterranean for 200 years. Just think; if the Holy Roman Empire falls, who do you think will be next on their list?

Ultimately, this choice is up to you to make. Would you rather the Holy Land be under the control of the hostile Muslims, who seek to destroy whatever vestiges of Christianity they can get ahold of, or the Catholics, who, though not Orthodox, would be much friendlier towards you, providing you co-operate with them. Surely they would probably give some territory to you as a sign of goodwill they have always shown. However, should you choose to side with the Muslims, terrible things will happen. Even if you continue like this, remember that people's patience only goes too far. Think of what happened on our timeline, on April 13, 1204...

 

[BSmith1068]

To: Avar Khaganate
From: The Roman Empire

Ours has been a prosperous relationship in the past few years. We wish to commemorate this great alliance, by inviting your ruler to visit our glorious capital of Constantinople.

To: The Roman Empire
From: The Avar Khaganate

We graciously accept your offer of friendship and hospitality, and look forward to touring your great city.