Or when defending a rough terrain, or being located one tile after a river tile: when enemy has used is movement points before the slinger, he can attack.
Slinger v Warrior
- Thread starter MIS
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Or when defending a rough terrain, or being located one tile after a river tile: when enemy has used is movement points before the slinger, he can attack.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
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Do you really believe that all existing problems with the series can be solved in a finite development time frame? It's the hard problems that tend to stick around, and it's precisely because they're hard.
In any event, to my eye it looks like there's been a significant rework of the combat system from what I recall of the tooltips in CIV/CiV. It's going to be hard to say much of substance regarding how these two specific pieces interact until we manage to extract some more information about the combat rework. What we can probably say with confidence based on CiV is that Slingers in sufficient quantity are going to do naughty things to a lesser quantity of Warriors even if the Slingers get run over in melee, because first the Warriors have to take the hits required to get into melee range. At parity things may be quite different.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
Really it reminds me of a pretty early pre-G&K screenshot where they showed a spearman with a strength of 8 and people were freaking out about the balance between warriors/spears/swordsmen. It's hard to really speculate about unit str and balance this far before release.
That being said, I kind of hope the mounted and ranged lines are a tad weaker and more specialized this time around. I'd like the main infantry to be the most utilitarian units. If the slingers are only good in the few situations people have mentioned I'll consider that a positive.
That being said, I kind of hope the mounted and ranged lines are a tad weaker and more specialized this time around. I'd like the main infantry to be the most utilitarian units. If the slingers are only good in the few situations people have mentioned I'll consider that a positive.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
They definitely changed the mechanics of combat. It is just not feasible, as had already been pointed out, to have your Slinger killed in a single turn by a Warrior.
Remember, this is not Total War or Europa Universalis. Civilization has a lot of casual fans and therefore the developers will try their best to keep frustration at a minimum.
In Civ V even Spearmen did not oneshot Archers, even though technically one "upgrade" ahead (the ruin upgrade). They only manage to do so after one promotion.
Remember, this is not Total War or Europa Universalis. Civilization has a lot of casual fans and therefore the developers will try their best to keep frustration at a minimum.
In Civ V even Spearmen did not oneshot Archers, even though technically one "upgrade" ahead (the ruin upgrade). They only manage to do so after one promotion.
m15a
Emperor
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Even if you count spearmen as being an upgrade to warriors via ruins, then they're still on the same level as archers since scouts (which are starting units like warriors) upgrade to archers.
As far as frustration is concerned, I think it's more of an issue of expectation. If people know slingers are always going to lose in one attack, they'll act accordingly. Civ V has a lot of things that are annoying until you learn about it, too: captured settlers, barbarians spawning at exactly the wrong turn (over and over), etc.
Archers are first level of tech, Spearmen are second level (you need mining first)
m15a
Emperor
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Yeah. By "level" I didn't mean exact same tech level. I meant more broadly terms of era. You have spearmen and archers at the same time and also warriors and scouts. Regularly, warriors upgrade to swordmen, so I would consider them actually ahead of warriors on the upgrade path. That's something like 14 strength vs 6 defense for archers, which is a case where you would not want your archers to be defending.
ashvin.l
ITendToLoseALot
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In the Civ5, Slinger did have a "withdraw from battle" promotion I think. If that continues to Civ 6, killing it will not be as easy as 1-hit battle.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
But remember that Slinger in Civ 5 was an Incan Unique Unit, not a traditional unit everyone can have.
Well they do have the same name... If that's true it would make a lot of sense why the Melee strength is so low even accounting for a new formula. You can't kill the slinger with only one warrior. You'll need two warriors to surround and kill a slinger.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
True enough... but it was the only slinger, so maybe it may be a bit of a template (I hope).
It doesn't sound likely to me. From what we understand, the slinger is the early ranged unit and is the start of the upgrade path that leads to archers and such. It doesn't make sense (to me) if the whole archer path has that ability, that would be unusual. It also doesn't make sense if the basic unit has it and then it gets lost on upgrade...
Of course, all of this is speculation, we don't know for sure. If the slinger has it, then I bet that's a common ability which is going to reshape combat a lot!
Of course, all of this is speculation, we don't know for sure. If the slinger has it, then I bet that's a common ability which is going to reshape combat a lot!
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
That's how I see it to.. Slinger is a first version of an Ranged Land unit.
It's unlikely that we'll have to wait until Classical era to get Archers so you could use these to defend your cities (as a ranged attack) or other purposes until you get Archery.
It's unlikely that we'll have to wait until Classical era to get Archers so you could use these to defend your cities (as a ranged attack) or other purposes until you get Archery.
Luis_Ah_Hoy
Chieftain
Yep.
Ofc, like it was said before we'll have to wait to see how the combat mathematics really works in Civ6. Also I'm not sure yet if the Slinger will come with the withdraw promotion.
So based on the information we have so far, even fortified on a rough terrain and protected by adjacent melee units ~ it seems that it will only take a fairly healthy Warrior's attack to obliterate the Slinger.
The "defend a city" purpose seems the ONLY purpose for the existence of the Slinger. But then again, their combat value is so weak that it would be preferable to have a Warrior rampaging off the city and taking damage, but hurting the enemy to a greater scale, than to have a Slinger tickling him with a ranged attack.
Craig_Sutter
Deity
I know how people often dismiss historical realism... saying gameplay trumps realism. That being said, I think that slingers do not make good city defense units. Against armoured and prepared units, they are not so effective. In the main, they were used as skirmish units where they provided harassing fire and opportunity fire... Tactics unsuited to a city defender. I seem to recall Alexander used them to great effect in one of his battles against the Persians where their fire while suddenly revealed from behind tge cavalry proved very important. I cannot recall any such incidents, historically, while being besieged. I could be educated on the matter though.
Luis_Ah_Hoy
Chieftain
I do enjoy some historical realism. The only problem with it, is that when incorporated to a PC game it has to add some relevance to it.
What you say makes sense, but it doesn't help much on rejecting the idea of the seeming uselessness of the Slinger, when compared to other contemporary military units IG.
What you say makes sense, but it doesn't help much on rejecting the idea of the seeming uselessness of the Slinger, when compared to other contemporary military units IG.
Slingers in Civ VI sound fairly useless... which I think mirrors nicely their historical usefulness (or lack thereof).
They're what you use if you have nothing else. Bows are a pretty early development (predating civilization itself, if I'm not mistaken).
They're what you use if you have nothing else. Bows are a pretty early development (predating civilization itself, if I'm not mistaken).
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
slingers actually were widely used up to medieval times
excavated ancient cities had arsenals of sling bullets
slings were more efficient vs unarmoured soldiers (the very most of an ancient army) than bows and had a greater range.
excavated ancient cities had arsenals of sling bullets
slings were more efficient vs unarmoured soldiers (the very most of an ancient army) than bows and had a greater range.
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