Smoking Ban in Bars/Resturants Upheld: Government Gone too far!

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Norlamand


The increase healthcare costs are a burden borne by society as a whole. The rationed allocation of healthcare resources when the system is burdened leads to an unfair denial of timely and appropriate care to those who have not indulged in "self destructive" behaviors in favor of those who have.

Smokers die younger, they don't debit the retirement funds that much, so the others will get more as adjustment

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by sysyphus


Would you care to point out to me where in the constitution of ANY country where smoking is deemed to be an inalienable right?

If smoking isn't a right, then why is being able to go to a smoke-free restaurant?

 

[thestonesfan]

It's a damn bar, not a hospital. What do people expect?

 

[floppa21]

MY problem is you people who are so PRO Smoking Ban. You don't smoke, and you can't make the decision to not go to places that allow it. You'd rather the government step in and ban it. YOU don't smoke so ban it. But when they come to ban your television or your cell phones or your freedom of religion, will you change your tune then? The government should not be deciding here, the business owners should.

Hitro. JPowers. Do either of you even go to public places often where the smoking is so bothersome to you?

 

[andrewgprv]

I am just about on the fence on this one. However I think I agree with Kraken here.

Goverenment needs to stop telling me how to live my life. We all know by now that second hand smoke is bad for you. If I walk into a smoke filled bar I am aware of the consequences of my actions, the gov. doesn't need to take the role of my parent and make the decision for me.

We can't ban everything that's bad for us! Let people decided what to do with their lives and bodies. I don't want politicans in washington deciding what I can breathe, eat etc...

 

[floppa21]

andrew is willing to take responsibility for his own decisions. Why isn't anyone else?

Open head wounds are bad for your health. That's why I try my best to avoid them.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by floppa21
Hitro. JPowers. Do either of you even go to public places often where the smoking is so bothersome to you?

Of course I do. There is no public place without smokers. I live in Virginia, the 'Smoke free and die' state, so there is not a single establishment which is not filled with clouds of toxic death.

 

[Norlamand]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino


Smokers die younger, they don't debit the retirement funds that much, so the others will get more as adjustment

they also represent a disproportionate drain on the healthcare resources in their last days/months. Treatment of COPD, lung cancer, vascular disease and other medical problems associated with smoking effectively wipes out any such savings. That said there is a strong suspicion in some circles that the reason the military hasn't enforced a no smoking policy for active duty troops is that they do die earlier and collect less benefits. Can't say I believe it.

 

[amadeus]

Sounds like Exxon's fault.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by floppa21
andrew is willing to take responsibility for his own decisions. Why isn't anyone else?

Open head wounds are bad for your health. That's why I try my best to avoid them.

It's your decision to assault me with smoke, not mine. If someone walked into a restauruant distributing open head wounds, they'd be locked up for life. Your argument is like an 8-year old saying 'I'm going to walk toward you swinging my fists in the air. If you get hit, it's your fault.' 8-year olds get spanked.

 

[jpowers]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Sounds like Exxon's fault.

Interesting non-sequitur, rmsharpe. Read on.

 

[The Yankee]

This is so stupid! This is what people do at bars and certain restaurants. They go there to unwind, relax, have a drink, smoke a cigarette. Don't tell me barkeepers were surprised when they saw people smoking. That comes with the territory.

I don't smoke...don't want to think about me clutching a small stick with the smoke coming out and it's too damn expensive with all these silly taxes on it, but come on! What's next? Outlaw drinking in bars? There are a lot of things more harmful than secondhand smoke. I can put up with it. I may not like it....and if I don't, I can just get up and move a little.

I believe that if there were any modifications that have to be made, you could make a strong case for better ventilation and more division between the smoking and non-smoking sections of an establishment.

Also, I see these news ads out, anyone living in New York City probably saw one. It is the stupidest thing ever, equating this with other things. One went "If they ban smoking in college classrooms, higher education will be ruined!" and it's basic job is to say that these points are stupid, like people who claim that bars will suffer some if people cannot smoke there. Another one said "If they ban smoking in the workplace, no one will go to work!"

This is just stupid. Besides, what are these people going to do now? All those people that can't smoke in their offices or bars went out onto the sidewalk. So it just creates more secondhand smoke on the sidewalks and more crowding of the sidewalk. That was smart......maybe they'll argue this when they want to get rid of smoking once and for all.

 

[Pongui]

Where I live, a total, province-wide ban on workplace smoking was pushed by the Worker's Compensation Board. This included bars, pool halls, casinos, everything. It was to protect the workers. Their reasoning was like that requiring janitors to wear rubber gloves, or chemical plant workers to wear gas masks.

That gives me an idea...

 

[philippe]

YOu can't force the poeple i think if you dont like smoke in a bar go to another one. its not because 1 man doesnt smoke 50 have to stop doing it in the bar

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by The Yankee
This is so stupid! This is what people do at bars and certain restaurants. They go there to unwind, relax, have a drink, smoke a cigarette. Don't tell me barkeepers were surprised when they saw people smoking. That comes with the territory.

And here I thought bars were for drinking and restaurants for eating. Silly me.

Originally posted by The Yankee
What's next? Outlaw drinking in bars?

Probably not, since that's what the purpose of bars is.

Originally posted by The Yankee
There are a lot of things more harmful than secondhand smoke. I can put up with it. I may not like it....and if I don't, I can just get up and move a little.

I don't like second hand smoke either. I'm not going to touch the "harmful" argument, because it really doesn't matter. I shouldn't have to breathe that stuff if I don't want to. Simple as that. I shouldn't have to get up and move a little, even if that were a legitamite option.

Originally posted by The Yankee
I believe that if there were any modifications that have to be made, you could make a strong case for better ventilation and more division between the smoking and non-smoking sections of an establishment.

Not really feasible. You want more division? Go to the cigar bar down the street. A place who's raison d'etre is to smoke.

Originally posted by The Yankee
This is just stupid. Besides, what are these people going to do now? All those people that can't smoke in their offices or bars went out onto the sidewalk. So it just creates more secondhand smoke on the sidewalks and more crowding of the sidewalk.

And they smoke right in front of the doors of office buildings, so I'm forced to smell it as I walk through the door.

 

[Ribannah]

Never in my life have I been able to enter a bar, and I've only seen the inside of very few restaurants.

Almost we had a smoking ban in these places in The Netherlands, but at the last moment the government withdrew their own proposal.

So I'm still waiting, and wondering - what do bars look like? Do they really look like the one in 'Cheers'?

 

[The Yankee]

Originally posted by Dralix


And here I thought bars were for drinking and restaurants for eating. Silly me.

---- There's more to it than that. People also go to bars to watch sports games on the tv's they may have. Bars and simple restaurants are for winding down, relaxing, be with your fellow human....if all you wanted was to drink and eat, there are usually better and cheaper options.


Probably not, since that's what the purpose of bars is.

---- See above.

I don't like second hand smoke either. I'm not going to touch the "harmful" argument, because it really doesn't matter. I shouldn't have to breathe that stuff if I don't want to. Simple as that. I shouldn't have to get up and move a little, even if that were a legitamite option.

----Okay, so YOU don't want to move because of what THEY do. So what do you say to a person that doesn't want to move because of YOU. Are these people below you? Should they just bow and call you "Your Majesty"?

Not really feasible. You want more division? Go to the cigar bar down the street. A place who's raison d'etre is to smoke.

----Kind of a silly point because even cigar bars are illegal now. Sure, there are some doing them in private like a speak-easy. Boy, that Prohibition went well too!
It's plenty feasible. My parents smoke in the living room. I'm in my room. I don't smell a hint of smoke in my room. There is maybe 25 feet separating us and a few stairs...but even with my door open, I don't detect it unless my father's smoking cigars.

And they smoke right in front of the doors of office buildings, so I'm forced to smell it as I walk through the door.

----Isn't that what you're doing when you're forcing smokers out of the bars? They then smoke in the street. Sounds self-defeating to me.

 

[The Yankee]

D'oh! Boy, I messed up the responses. They're still in bold....but they got the dashes beside them.


As for what bars look like...well, some have that same kind of layout as Cheers. Not always, though.

 

[Dralix]

Originally posted by The Yankee
----Okay, so YOU don't want to move because of what THEY do. So what do you say to a person that doesn't want to move because of YOU. Are these people below you? Should they just bow and call you "Your Majesty"?

You mean the person who wants me to move because my non-smoking is bothering them?

 

[floppa21]

Speakin on smokers draining healthcare funds... Wouldn't you say OLD people do this? They fall and break a hip. They don't work so the money for the surgery comes out of every working tax paying citizen's paycheck. Old people continue to live well into their 70's and 80's and 90's contributing nothing to society but sucking up SS and healthcare money. Blame the smokers norlamand.

jpowers, I don't ASSAULT anyone with smoke. If I wanted to assault you, believe me, I'd come up with something a bit more substantial. Comparing my smoking in MY space to an 8 year old walking towards someone swinging their fists is plain dumb. Sorta like your gunman 'exercising' his rights. I do not walk up to someone on the street and light a smoke. If I am smoking and you walk up next to me, that's your damn problem, not mine. Call the smoke police.

But because YOU don't like it, it should be banned. Forget the fact that other people CHOOSE to smoke and enjoy it. YOU don't like it so it should be illegal. Keep voting. You'll change your tune when the subject changes.