[SNEAK PEEK] GraveMod (a NEW ModPack for Warlords on the way!)

C.Roland · Jan 3, 2007

Grave said:
Here is the current UU listing:

Spoiler :

America:
F-15 Strike Eagle (replaces Jet Fighter)
B-52 Stratofortress (replaces Long Range Bomber)

Arabia:
Camel Archer (replaces Horseman)
Ansar Warrior (replaces Knight)
Fedayeen (replaces Marine)

Aztec:
Jaguar (replaces Swordsman)
Eagle (replaces Spearman)
Leopard (replaces Axeman)

Cho-Ko-Nu (replaces Crossbowman)
Junk (replaces Galleon)
Hand Cannon (replaces Musketman)

Egypt:
War Chariot (replaces Chariot)
Nubian Archer (replaces Archer)
Egyptian Spear (replaces Spearman)

England:
Redcoat (replaces Musketman)
English Longbow (replaces Longbowman)
Man O' War (replaces Frigate)

France:
Musketeer (replaces Musketman)
Dragoon (replaces Cavalry)
Foreign Legion (replaces Rifleman)

Germany:
Panzer (replaces Tank)
Heinkel He 111 (replaces Bomber)
Wehrmacht (replaces Marine)

Greece:
Hoplite (replaces Spearman)
Hypaspist (replaces Axeman)
Companion Cavalry (replaces Horseman)

Inca:
Quechua (replaces Swordsman)
Chaski (replaces Explorer)
Antisuyu (replaces Archer)

India:
Fast Worker (replaces Worker)
Battle Elephant (replaces War Elephant)

Japan:
Samurai (replaces Maceman)
Zero (replaces Fighter)

Mali:
Skirmisher (replaces Archer)
Kele-Tiguis (replaces Knight)
Sofa (replaces Longbowman)

Mongolia:
Keshik (replaces Crossbowman)
Raider (replaces Knight)
Light Javelin Thrower (replaces Pikeman)

Persia:
Immortal (replaces Chariot)

Rome:
Praetorian (replaces Swordsman)
Equestrian (replaces Horseman)
Velite (replaces Axeman)

Russia:
Cossack (replaces Cavalry)
T-72 Battle Tank (replaces Modern Armor)
Mi-24 Hind (replaces Gunship)

Spain:
Conquistador (replaces Knight)
Carrack (replaces Caravel)
Manila Galleon (replaces Galleon)

Carthage:
Numidian Cavalry (Horseman)
Carthaginian War Elephant (replaces War Elephant)
Poeni Infantry (replaces Spearman)

Celts:
Gallic Warrior (replaces Swordsman)
Headhunter (replaces Spearman)
Welsh Mercenary (replaces Archer)

Korea:
Hwacha (replaces Catapult)
Kobukson (replaces Frigate)

Ottomans:
Janissary (replaces Musketman)
Nizami (replaces Rifleman)
Sipahi (replaces Cavalry)

Vikings:
Berserker (replaces Maceman)
Ulfheonar (replaces Pikeman)
Longboat (replaces Galley)

Zulu:
Impi (replaces Spearman)
Impi Bowman (replaces Archer)
Mounted Impi (replaces Chariot)

Israel:
Sufa (replaces Jet Fighter)
Macabee (replaces Swordsman)
Egoz Recon (replaces Special Forces)

So, as you can see... I still need to make the following:

Spoiler :

America: 1 more UU
India: 1 more UU
Japan: 1 more UU
Persia: 2 more UU
Korea: 1 more UU

While these units above are pretty much set in stone, I may change some of the vanilla units they replace, like making the Impi replace the Pikeman instead of Spearman, etc.

On a side note...
- Horseman replaces Horse Archer
- Special Forces is a new unit available to all Civs

Also, I'm looking to make UU's for each Religion. Abbamouse's Religion mod has 1 UU for each Religion... I wanted to expand on that and offer 2 UU's for each one.

So, I'm looking for ideas on this also...

Some quick comments :
Third american UU should be the minuteman (I have already did a skin of the red coat and now i can edit the model a bit if you want.)
Third Japan, maybe a modern naval units. (They are some in the DB)
For Persia you should use rabbit white graphics for the imortal. 4 horses chariots or Scythed chariot can do a nice job for the 2uu. ( I can do the graphic)
For the third, I don't know. Maybe you can use the graphic of the vanilla immortal and simply call it Persian Horseman.
For India, I really do not know.

For aztec I would use AtlAtl instead of leopard

Spoiler :

For France, I would use
Paladin (represent Charlemagne period)
Musketeer (represent Louis XIV period)
Cuirassier (represent more Napoleon I period)(can use this graphic)
Those 3 units reprenset the 3 of the greates period of France History.
I would make the Dragon a separate unit (check AlzAss. napoleon graphics)

For spain, maybe you could use the lance if you do not want to have 2 naval UU

For the religious UU :
Mamluks for Islam
Crusader and maybe papal zouaves for chirstianistry
For the others I will have to do some research.

Grave · Jan 4, 2007

C.Roland said:
Some quick comments :
Third american UU should be the minuteman (I have already did a skin of the red coat and now i can edit the model a bit if you want.)

Well, popular opinion is definately asking for the Minuteman as the 3rd American UU.

C.Roland said:
Third Japan, maybe a modern naval units. (They are some in the DB)

A Japanase naval unit is definately in order for the 3rd UU.

C.Roland said:
For Persia you should use rabbit white graphics for the imortal. 4 horses chariots or Scythed chariot can do a nice job for the 2uu. ( I can do the graphic)

I don't know why Firaxis made the Immortal a mounted unit. But I've planned on changing the unit graphic for him to the one Rabbit White did. So you can expect to see that change. I'm thinking the next UU for Persia should be some kind of Cataphract, in which I could recycle the original Immortal unit graphics.

I sent you a PM about the Scythed Chariot.

C.Roland said:
For aztec I would use AtlAtl instead of leopard

Yeah, the UU's I picked for the Aztecs were kind of generic, unfortunately. I think I'll change around the Aztec UU's around a bit, thanks to yours (and others) feedback.

C.Roland said:
For France, I would use
Paladin (represent Charlemagne period)
Musketeer (represent Louis XIV period)
Cuirassier (represent more Napoleon I period)(can use this graphic)
Those 3 units reprenset the 3 of the greates period of France History.
I would make the Dragon a separate unit (check AlzAss. napoleon graphics)

I couldn't find any info on the Paladin anywhere that was specific to France... could you give me more info about them?

C.Roland said:
For spain, maybe you could use the lance if you do not want to have 2 naval UU

I like giving Spain two naval UU's. It helps enforce their dominance of the seas. If I ever release additional UU's (in addition to the 3 UU's now) I could add the Lance.

C.Roland said:
For the religious UU :
Mamluks for Islam
Crusader and maybe papal zouaves for chirstianistry
For the others I will have to do some research.

I think I have the Christian & Islam UU's good to go. I'm sure Buddhism could use another form of Monk. It's the other's I'm not so sure of. :confused:

kristopherb · Jan 4, 2007

can you change the redcoat back to riflemen because of 3 reasons
1)it was around steel/chemistry redcoats was used
2)real english muskets was the "new modle army "by cromwell this was before the empire(and they a didnt wear red)
3)rifles are a more advanced musket (they are more acurate/longer range and thay devolped a powder which didnt make as much smoke)and theyhad bayonets on the rifles

Grave · Jan 5, 2007

** UPDATE **

When I woke up this morning, I had a massive brain storming session... and the result is that EACH Civilization will now have 4 UU's!

I'll give you guys the Skinny once I get them all loaded into the game.

Donkey Puncher · Jan 8, 2007

cool cant wait to see them

C.Roland · Jan 8, 2007

Grave said:
** UPDATE **

When I woke up this morning, I had a massive brain storming session... and the result is that EACH Civilization will now have 4 UU's!

I'll give you guys the Skinny once I get them all loaded into the game.

Can you list the additional UU for each civ

Grave · Jan 9, 2007

Units in RED are the new UU's:

Spoiler :

As you can see... there will be new UnitClasses, too.

I didn't chose the Minuteman as an American UU for one reason: I did alot of research on it, and in reality, the Minutemen were nothing more than a loosely organized militia. They had no issued weapons, just what ever they owned (usually hunting rifles/muskets). In game terms, they didn't seem "unique" enough to seperate them from a regular Musketman.

In their places I chose the Marine Corps. Why? Because the U.S. has the best Marine forces on the planet. They have a long history, and their battle prowess is evident throughout 20th century warfare. I felt the USMC deserved to become a UU, so I did it.

Oh, and here is a screenshot of the new Main Menu. I've officially dubbed this mod as "History in the Making".

Enjoy!

C.Roland · Jan 9, 2007

If you want to use the minutman you can do a cheaper rifleman unit, but your american UU are fine if you want to focus on the last era. Why you do not call the american USMC ? If you do not use the minutamn as a UU you can use it only as a Flavor units for the graphic.

The Aztec Atlatl should replace crossbowman instead of archer. This weapon was used against Spanish conquistadors and if this spanish UU replace Knight, Aztec Crossbowman should be the Atlatl. Aztec crossbowman look weird I think.

For France you can use the Voltigeurs as a UU instead of dragoons, I do not think dragoons should replace the cavalry, it was a hybrid unit, it fight on feet. Voltigeurs was a Line Infantry of the Napoleon's time. When I say Paladin, it's the only term that i find for the Carolingian cavalry. Charlemagne's army was important because of his cavalry. If you do not like the term Paladin (for his religious or litterature aspects) you can simply name it Carolingian Knight or Carolingian Cavalry.

For Zulu, maybe you can check this post for the last UU : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20551&highlight=vutwamini

Grave · Jan 9, 2007

C.Roland said:
If you want to use the minutman you can do a cheaper rifleman unit, but your american UU are fine if you want to focus on the last era. Why you do not call the american USMC ? If you do not use the minutamn as a UU you can use it only as a Flavor units for the graphic.

Yeah, for each Civ, my aim is to focus on a specific timeline... that way it kind of emphasizes the height of their empires. On rare occasions (like China) I'll throw in a modern unit, since they span such a long part of time. But yes, I'll most definately use your Minuteman as a flavor unit, as I do think it's an awesome reskin. :goodjob:

C.Roland said:
The Aztec Atlatl should replace crossbowman instead of archer. This weapon was used against Spanish conquistadors and if this spanish UU replace Knight, Aztec Crossbowman should be the Atlatl. Aztec crossbowman look weird I think.

I agree totally... Aztec Crossbowman? :lol:

I'm still playing around with which units the UU's replace. Playtesting will cure this.

C.Roland said:
For France you can use the Voltigeurs as a UU instead of dragoons, I do not think dragoons should replace the cavalry, it was a hybrid unit, it fight on feet. Voltigeurs was a Line Infantry of the Napoleon's time. When I say Paladin, it's the only term that i find for the Carolingian cavalry. Charlemagne's army was important because of his cavalry. If you do not like the term Paladin (for his religious or litterature aspects) you can simply name it Carolingian Knight or Carolingian Cavalry.

I'll see what I can do about this. I have no problem with the term "Paladin". When I went to research it, I did use that term... and didn't come up with much. But I'll do a Google and Wiki on Charlemagne and see what comes up.

C.Roland said:
For Zulu, maybe you can check this post for the last UU : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20551&highlight=vutwamini

Any suggestions on this? I'd like to see more female units, definately.

Good Sauce · Jan 11, 2007

I fully support the USMC as an american UU, but I'd like to see a late age navel unit in place of the apache, Ideally it would be an advanced carrier. Many other countries have attaqck helicopters like the Apache, but very few, if any countries now-a-days have a carrier that can rival the eisenhower class super carrier. On top of that since WWII the carrier task force has been the backbone of our navy.
I realize a problem with the carrier is that it doesnt make a great UU because it hardly ever sees combat, but I had an idea that might get around this. If you could make it so that aircraft based on the carrier had a longer range than normal I thik it'd make a very powerful unit and represent Americas navel power in the late 20th century.

Impaler[WrG] · Jan 11, 2007

I'd also add greater AirUnit carrying capacity and strong defence and faster movment (which have the advantage of being doable in XML), Graphicaly the current Carrier should become the UU and a new Graphic based on the smaller British HMS Invicible class, they represent roughly the same post WWII Carrier the game currently represents with its single carrier but are more typical of the types of carriers most nations possess today. An excelent video can be found at this RoyalNavy Site watch the little video in the corner their and you can see how the narrower deck, ski-jump and coning towers make it quite visualy destinct from the Nimitz style carrier the game currently uses. I'd recomend you consult/commition Snafu or one of the other elite artists to make it. The range incresese on the American UU Carrier (+2 I think) would be a very nice touch but would require some SDK work.

Grave · Jan 12, 2007

I'll look into the naval UU for America. Idealy, I'd like to have a UU for each Armed Services branch of the U.S. military. So far I have two for the Air Force, one for the Corps, and one for the Army. The only one left out is the Navy.

I'll think about changing the Apache with a naval unit. If I don't get around to changing it... and if I ever make 5 UU's per Civ, then the next UU for America will definately be a Navy unit. Most likely be the carrier, like was already suggested... or maybe even the AEGIS missile cruiser.

But yes... I'll look into this request for a Navy UU for America.

Morfydd · Jan 13, 2007

hmmn naval unit ...three differnt posibilities pop to mind instantly

Eisenhower class Super carrier <all but three of active duty carriers are of this class>

WWII Jeep carrier <ie carries one or two aircraft is fast and cheap to build has a lower str than a regualr carrier>

LHD <wasp class amphibious assult ship> carries 2 jets, 2 foot units 2 helos and 2 tracked units ...capaable of offsore bombard <as good as a destroyer>

argh number 4 pops up seawolf class fast attack sub <carries 6 cruise missles is invible to all but sub hunting ships and planes can also carry a couple opf spy type units>

Donkey Puncher · Jan 22, 2007

hey just curious of an update thanks

Grave · Jan 26, 2007

BAD NEWS

A little under two weeks ago, my hard drive decided to take a **** on me. This project was on that hard drive. :mad:

I sent it to a computer store to try and do some data recovery on it... but they were unable to. The drive was toast. :cry:

GOOD NEWS

I have a backup on this project, however it's several weeks old, so most of the stuff I've been working on in 2007 is gone. So I lost a bunch of stuff, mainly the UU's I was working on, which REALLY SUCKS!

I haven't been motivated enough the past couple weeks to pick up and start again, but I think I'm going to roll my sleeves up again and take a crack at it.

I also am on a new work schedule, so I don't have the time that I used to have to work on this. But I have some free time this weekend... I SHOULD be able to accomplish quite a bit today, actually.

I'll let ya know how things are going once I get the ball rolling again.

Time to crack open a beer and get busy... :goodjob:

kristopherb · Jan 26, 2007

ouch that got to hurt

Grave · Jan 26, 2007

Yeah, it sucks pretty bad. Actually, it's not as bad as I first thought it was. I might of lost somewhere around 15 UU's or so.

I just finished two UU's just now, and I also re-created the Main Menu screen and the Opening Menu music. Not bad for a few hours work!

More to come...

JohnYoga · Jan 27, 2007

That about says it Grave...

I am lurking on this thread, and looking forward to your work.

Keep on keeping on...

Regards,

John :goodjob:

Gaius Octavius · Jan 27, 2007

Oh, that’s not good news at all. Very sorry to hear about it. But at least you have a backup, though an old one.

I generally like the new UU’s you have listed, especially the fact that you use a combination of land/sea/air, unlike Firaxis’ land-only ones. I do have one comment about the American minuteman, though: if you prefer not to use it (and I perfectly understand your reasons for doing so), you could always use the more formal Continental Regular. Or if you prefer something more modern, an American G.I. would be interesting, and more appropriate, I think, than the Apache gunship, as GI’s played such a pivotal role in 20th century American conflicts. I am very much in favor of the USMC for the same reason. In fact, I renamed the Navy SEAL to U.S. Marine in my own vanilla Civ 4 long ago, so it is nice to see it here.

A naval UU would be very nice too, though no specific class of vessel comes to mind when I think of the U.S. Navy, except perhaps the WW II carriers (Yorktown class?). Maybe an Iowa class battleship.

I have but one emphatic request, and that is that you rename the Praetorian to Legion or Legionary, for historical accuracy. They were, after all, the ones who built and kept the Roman Empire, not the Praetorian Guard. This kind of goes along the same lines as the SEAL/USMC debate, the few vs. the many.

Since you want to include unique GP, I’ll see about trying to come up with a list of names for the new Israeli civilization. That reminds me, have you thought about what Israel’s UB will be?

There’s one other thing you might be interested in, to add more flavor: unique national wonders. I’ve been working on a mod off-and-on for a few weeks now, with the object of replacing the existing generic wonders with civ-specific ones, along the same lines as what I did with GP. Examples: Roman National Epic could be the Aeneid, American Hermitage: Smithsonian Institute, Greek Oxford Univ.: Plato’s Academy, German Mt. Rushmore: Brandenburg Gate. For your mod it wouldn’t be necessary to replace every single NW, but maybe three or four per civ, like you did with the UU’s. If you are interested just say the word and I’ll see what I can do.

Along these same lines, I can also help come up with lists of second UB’s for each civ if you want, which I am very glad to see will be included. (I have always wanted to see the baths for the Romans.)

Vrenir · Jan 27, 2007

Have you seen the lates Hirohito leaderhead by Chugginator? He's also apparently working on a Spanish Franco. I think that they definitely fit your criteria for refinement and authenticity.

I would also again bring up Masinissa of Carthage as a well-done leaderhead who, with the exception of his having a mustache, closely resembles the historic pictures.

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