So Machine Gun has the strength of a Panzer?

[Montov]

A Mortar could be fun. Range 2 would seem likely, but just as the Archer and Crossbowman a weak defense, maybe a bonus against mounted and a penalty against gunpowder units.

By the way, the Land Ship tank would probably receive a bonus against MG's. So take out the MG with a Land Ship, take out the Mortar with Artillery and then Infantry to fight off the enemy Artillery.

 

[Haig]

I'm ready to bet that it's not that simple to get rid of MGs with plain artillery. They must have a special defense bonus against ranged attacks, in Civ IV they were immune to collateral damage, and in WW1 even massive bombardments of several days couldn't remove them of fortified positions.

So options are a human wave attack or trampling them under Land Ships..

Also, I'd like this line of upgrade path:

Crosbowmen - Grenadiers - Machineguns (or mortars)

 

[Monthar]

Didn't one of those articles mention the land ship is part of the Sci-Fi scenario?

 

[anandus]

Didn't one of those articles mention the land ship is part of the Sci-Fi scenario?

No, it's

Build flying airships and huge tractor-like tanks from the unique tech tree [...]

But who knows?

 

[Monthar]

The "huge tractor-like tanks" could be the landship.

 

[MadDjinn]

No, it's
But who knows?

The "huge tractor-like tanks" could be the landship.

Or it's in both. It's not like new units haven't been shoved into new scenarios before (Conquistadors for all!)

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think it would be odd to have the Celts in the Victorian scenario. Otherwise, it's certainly a possibility.

I think the smart way to do it would be to have it for both.

 

[Montov]

The "huge tractor-like tanks" could be the landship.

No, a land ship is a close to the ground type of vehicle. Completely different with tractors.

 

[theis81]

So what do you think comes after machine guns. Machine guns existed in both WW1 and WW2, so we'll hopefully see two version of them, but what about modern ranged units:

- Jeep mounted with a machine gun (fast, range 1, move after attacking)
or
- Sniper (slow, range 2)
or
- Remote controlled machine gun (???)
or
- ?????

I am not pleased with any of my ideas, so please discuss and/or add to the list.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The field machine gun has been pretty stagnant since WW2. Just incramental improvements in materials, manufacturing processes, etc. It's still something that gets lugged around by a small team and deployed in a stationary position or mounted to a vehicle. If the MG upgrades to anything, it might be a future tech unit, like a combat robot or something. You can't really do the vehicle mount because that's Mech Inf.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The field machine gun has been pretty stagnant since WW2. Just incramental improvements in materials, manufacturing processes, etc. It's still something that gets lugged around by a small team and deployed in a stationary position or mounted to a vehicle. If the MG upgrades to anything, it might be a future tech unit, like a combat robot or something. You can't really do the vehicle mount because that's Mech Inf.

It might get a vehicle upgrade in Modern Era (slightly stronger stats but 3 or 4 movement) That way those crossbows could stay current.

 

[CYZ]

Artillery-mortar-MG in train
Oh, my.

Build those Maginot-lines, people!

Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
Artillery-mortar-MG
And of course the MG's in citadels

(Of course easy to take out the MG's and mortars with creeping artillery, but it's the image that counts )

It should not be too hard to take that out. Such a purely defensive force needs some sort of counter and artillery, early planes and the early tank all seem likely.

Still, I would hate for crossbows to go to mortars directly. But also dislike the idea of 2 range grenadiers.


I'm guessing that crossbows turn into grenadiers (which basic range is 1). Grenadiers are strong in the fact that they can deal a blow without taking damage, and may move after attacking, however they're not very good when attacked directly.

Then Grenadier can turn into machineguns, also range of 1. The machine gun is strong on defense and offense. However it's range of 1 doesn't allow you to use it as the spearhead of your assault very easily. They will be a great defense against counterattacks though.

I don't really see the need for mortars personally, if they do come I hope it's not in the WW1 but WW2 era. Otherwise WW1 will have way too many ranged defensive units.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It should not be too hard to take that out. Such a purely defensive force needs some sort of counter and artillery, early planes and the early tank all seem likely.

Still, I would hate for crossbows to go to mortars directly. But also dislike the idea of 2 range grenadiers.


I'm guessing that crossbows turn into grenadiers (which basic range is 1). Grenadiers are strong in the fact that they can deal a blow without taking damage, and may move after attacking, however they're not very good when attacked directly.

Then Grenadier can turn into machineguns, also range of 1. The machine gun is strong on defense and offense. However it's range of 1 doesn't allow you to use it as the spearhead of your assault very easily. They will be a great defense against counterattacks though.

I don't really see the need for mortars personally, if they do come I hope it's not in the WW1 but WW2 era. Otherwise WW1 will have way too many ranged defensive units.

I like that idea for Grenadiers: Range 1, move after attacking (and slightly poor but not bad defense)

then upgrade to MG: Range 1, must set up to attack? (with really good defense+attack)

Then Modern upgrade to Mobile Machine gun: Range 1, move 3, move after attacking (but defense+attack no better than MG.. a cheap unit)

Finally (Future Era) upgrade to Combat Robot: Range 1, Move 3, move after attacking (but with good Attack and Defense)

 

[CYZ]

I like that idea for Grenadiers: Range 1, move after attacking (and slightly poor but not bad defense)

then upgrade to MG: Range 1, must set up to attack? (with really good defense+attack)

Then Modern upgrade to Mobile Machine gun: Range 1, move 3, move after attacking (but defense+attack no better than MG.. a cheap unit)

Finally (Future Era) upgrade to Combat Robot: Range 1, Move 3, move after attacking (but with good Attack and Defense)

Hmmm... That could certainly work!

I'd call the mobile machine gun a modern machine gun. Also, give it 2 moves instead of 3 and strong defense+attack. Weak attack makes it useless, it would work best as an upgraded machine gun with the only real difference being able to move after attacking. Then the combat robot (mechanized machinegun?) will have the 3 moves, making it much more of a come in, shoot and go out unit.

But I think this upgrade path would be awesome, it's like every next unit has an evolution compared to the next one and it seems to make sense. Let's hope some developers at Fireaxis had a simmiliar idea.

 

[MadDjinn]

Hmmm... That could certainly work!

I'd call the mobile machine gun a modern machine gun. Also, give it 2 moves instead of 3 and strong defense+attack. Weak attack makes it useless, it would work best as an upgraded machine gun with the only real difference being able to move after attacking. Then the combat robot (mechanized machinegun?) will have the 3 moves, making it much more of a come in, shoot and go out unit.

But I think this upgrade path would be awesome, it's like every next unit has an evolution compared to the next one and it seems to make sense. Let's hope some developers at Fireaxis had a simmiliar idea.

oh, how about we convert the GDR into a ranged unit and have it do a 2 hex wide attack with those lasers? (A. bomb like spread)

 

[Louis XXIV]

MG to Helicopters would be a weird switch. Considering they're defensive units, upgrading to Mech. Inf. would make more sense.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Or just make MG upgrade to rocket artillery, thus being convergent with the seige line. The ranged line is currently convergent with the melee line, so it's not a huge leap of imagination.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Or just make MG upgrade to rocket artillery, thus being convergent with the seige line. The ranged line is currently convergent with the melee line, so it's not a huge leap of imagination.

It might be better to just have MG be a dead end 60 attack+def is OK.. particularly if they are cheap. They then become functionally obsolete with Bombers+Tanks, but they still may be good for garrisoning in cities.

Since 1 range is Really different from 2 Range in the function of the unit. So I'd say

Crossbow->Grenadier->Machine Gun...and that's it

(although if they upgrade from crossbows.... imagine Slinger Machine Guns... that would be interesting.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm ok with a dead end too. In the real world, MG's still operate the way they did in WW2. If you mount a MG on a vehicle, it doesn't improve the MG. It improves the vehicle. The MG definitely has vulnerabilities now that it didn't when they were invented. Tanks, air strikes, bazookas, long range snipers, but they are still being used the same way. They aren't as effective vs Mech Inf as they are against regular infantry, but they aren't obsolete yet. Whatever supercedes the machine gun hasn't been developed yet.

I suspect a robotic sentry will replace machine guns in the next few decades. It could carry its own ammo and be armored while occupying less space than a vehicle. It could be equipped with a variety of sensors and linked to a battlefield network in real time.

 

[MadDjinn]

I suspect a robotic sentry will replace machine guns in the next few decades. It could carry its own ammo and be armored while occupying less space than a vehicle. It could be equipped with a variety of sensors and linked to a battlefield network in real time.

that already exists, except for the wandering around part (unless on rails, but whatever).

but it's still just a machine gun. The only real difference is the lack of a body at the location.