Social Policies???

[Ribannah]

Social policies wouldn't translate to government forms.
Examples of social policies are:

emancipation
free speech
freedom of religion
minimum wage
social security
national health insurance
trias politica
universal suffrage

 

[Che Guava]

However the system works, I just hope there's no *inevitability* about certain choices-like there was with the Free Religion & Emancipation Civic. That always bugged me.

Aussie.

Not to play the 'realism' card again, but is't there a certain amount of inevitabvility in cetain social/civic features, if not only because they'e more efficient?

Having said that, I never understood why "Police State" wa never a more popular choice in civIV....

 

[Tlalynet]

1/3 if the vote is really good unless you're democracy is bi-partisan. We've had majority governments with just over that mark, and its rare to see anyone with 50%.

Bullying for votes is a good argument though, I agree that isn't democratic.

 

[Woodreaux]

However the system works, I just hope there's no *inevitability* about certain choices-like there was with the Free Religion & Emancipation Civic. That always bugged me.

Aussie.

There is no inevitability of Free Religion & Emancipation. Free Religion is simply an attractive option for gaining the 10% and using religion spam to get lots of , however, the 25% building bonus, plus keeping a for diplo bonuses keeps Organized Religion very attractive well into the late game. The religion diplomacy thing works both ways. FR's no religion removes the "Heathen Religion" penalty, will the others with a state religion grant "We care for /b/rothers of the faith" bonus (along with heathen penalty).

Emancipation is a must if and only if you're planning on running the "Cottage Economy". However, if you derive a great deal of your and from specialists, you can get away with run the slider high enough generate enough to mitigate "We demand Emancipation" . This allows players to keep Caste System and run unlimited numbers of merchants and scientists AND milk the workshops for those delicious extra .

 

[Inspector Javert]

I would kind of like to see a complex way of setting out your government. Is power held at the federal level, the state level (city states), or shared between the two (the US' system of government though that's growling less and less true... How is your federal goverment set up

Then further divide the government by determining how your federal government is divided. Do you hold absolute power, or are there separate branches.

Lastly, how are these branches run? If you have a judicial branch is it set up to be fair and equitable, or is it slanted towards one side or the other? Does the legislature need a simple majority to pass laws, or does it require a higher threshold.

Here's an example.

Federal System

Power: Federal Alone
Branches: Executive and Judicial
Executive system: Two branches: Enforcement and Codification
Judicial: Supreme Court to test Codification against the constitution, Lower court to enforce the codification laws.

Perhaps that's a bit too complicated though.

Perhaps positions will be like in CIV Col when you set up your constitution?

You can take a position on race relations (IE Apartheid, or Equality) on Labor (slavery, minimum wage). Since a lot of positions don't make sense on their own perhaps you could run several potions at once (IE Run Slavery but have a minimum wage for non slave workers ) so long as they don't cancel each other out (Emancipation and slavery).

I would be perfectly happy however with 5 or more sliders detailing various aspects of your government (ie Press Freedom, Speech Freedom, Labor Freedom)

Phew that was a big post...

 

[_hero_]

However the system works, I just hope there's no *inevitability* about certain choices-like there was with the Free Religion & Emancipation Civic. That always bugged me.

Aussie.

The impressive I got was that you could advance one or multiple trees and basically that each advancement would be permanent and positive. In other words I got the impression that no matter what course you take you will be improving your empire. Furthermore it was stated that you wouldn't be able to fully advance every tree. You could either have parts of every tree or could go very deep into one tree.

Anyway if my hunch is true that all advancements are strictly positive and permanent then there won't be any inevitable choices, but rather it comes down to gameplay. If the old civs are any indication, advancing down authoritarian paths helps military victories and advancing down republic or democratic paths helps with peaceful empire and city development and technological advancement.

Therefore you could try to win by getting way ahead (pure democracy), by overwhelming (pure authoritarian) or have a balanced approach

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

_hero_. One thing I definitely hope won't happen is that we get a return to the "Democracy=Peace; Communism=War" situation. I want a little more flavour than that !

Aussie.

 

[_hero_]

_hero_. One thing I definitely hope won't happen is that we get a return to the "Democracy=Peace; Communism=War" situation. I want a little more flavour than that !

Aussie.

Agreed and I doubt it is that simple but every civ has had some sort of production or military related bonus for Communism and some sort of science or commerce bonus for Democracy. It is hard to argue with the logic of such bonuses. Hopefully all strategies are feasible with all social policies.

 

[UKScud]

_hero_. One thing I definitely hope won't happen is that we get a return to the "Democracy=Peace; Communism=War" situation. I want a little more flavour than that !

Aussie.

Personally I think the problem stems from the fact that Government Type has always been associated with certain bonuses, so given the goal of the game is to win (in whatever specific manner you have chosen) there will always be a certain option that is optimal...hence the "same-i-ness" given the four or five victory conditions.

Perhaps it should work the other way round, with Government being a result of certain in-game actions.

Perhaps you ought to be given choices as a result of certain techs discovered in game, or certain events as they happen. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, killing off Royal Families, or establishing oneself as King as result of a revolution would be examples of this tpye.

 

[civ_king]

Agreed and I doubt it is that simple but every civ has had some sort of production or military related bonus for Communism and some sort of science or commerce bonus for Democracy. It is hard to argue with the logic of such bonuses. Hopefully all strategies are feasible with all social policies.

Much science has also been achieved under communism, for it is amoral and therefore moral qualms do not halt progress

 

[bonafide11]

I don't mind communism giving production bonuses at all, but I'll be very disappointed if they repeat Civ Rev's "democracy can't declare war" bonus. That was such B.S. Again, I'm not one to put too much emphasis on realism, but come on! Democracies are no more peaceful than any other form of government.

 

[civ_king]

I don't mind communism giving production bonuses at all, but I'll be very disappointed if they repeat Civ Rev's "democracy can't declare war" bonus. That was such B.S. Again, I'm not one to put too much emphasis on realism, but come on! Democracies are no more peaceful than any other form of government.

*cough*USA*cough*

 

[Chief of Staff]

It would be interesting if you were to change social policies and a Government label on top center of Social Policies screen would change based on that set of social policies selected. For example, if you were to select Free Religion, Free Speech, Universal Suffrage, Free Market, and Emancipation at same time, the Government label would change to Democracy or something like that. Choose Hereditary Rule, Vassalage, Serfdom, Mercantilism, and either Theocracy or Organized Religion and the Government label changes to Monarchy. I'm just using Civ4's Civics as basis for those example since we don't know exactly what Social Policies they have in Civ5 but you get the idea.

 

[Tomice]

What would be very important to me would be multiple valid choices early and late in the game.
There was no "democratic" early option in civ4 (although the greek city states had votes 2500 years ago). Later on it was a bit better, admittedly.

Furthermore, I would love to see more "feeling" for what you are doing. I never bothered if the AI was hyper-tyrannic or super-nice to it's citizens. The AI also didn't care much, and in the city screen you had no difference between surpressed citizens and free, happy people. I want to get a feedback what I'm doing other then +10% science - some eyecandy, some messages, some events tied to that.

 

[tom2050]

Social policies wouldn't translate to government forms.
Examples of social policies are:

emancipation
free speech
freedom of religion
minimum wage
social security
national health insurance
trias politica
universal suffrage

Ribannah is correct... have they stated that Social Policies are specifically governments?

If not, then Social Policies have absolutely nothing to do with government, and governments are probably seperate.

Other social policies per Wikipedia:

welfare
Unemployment
Pensions
Healthcare
Family Policy
Social housing, care, and exclusion
Education
Crime and Criminal justice
Labour regulation

So have they stated Governments or no? If not, assume the above is what they are talking about. If they have stated this, I missed it

But having these, along with Government, would be incredibly interesting, and have a vast amount of domestic policy control over your empire.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Social Policies aparently include ALL of society

So government is a Subcategory of Social Policy

Like Religion, Economy, etc.

 

[tom2050]

Social policy primarily refers to guidelines and interventions for the changing, maintenance or creation of living conditions that are conducive to human welfare. Thus, social policy is that part of public policy that has to do with social issues.

Doesn't sound like Gov't, since Gov't is not a Social Issue... Government is probably seperate unless they have stated that Social Policies will be Gov't.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Doesn't sound like Gov't, since Gov't is not a Social Issue... Government is probably seperate unless they have stated that Social Policies will be Gov't.

The examples they gave of social policies included

Tyrrany: Despotism->Monarchy->Facism
Religion: Polytheism->Montheism->Theocracy
Tradition
Democracy
Ecology


Which sounds like a comprehensive picture of your society (government, culture, religion, economy, values, etc.)

 

[tom2050]

Tyrrany: Despotism->Monarchy->Facism
Religion: Polytheism->Montheism->Theocracy

Sounds like what this is saying is that if Tyrrany is your Social Policy, it unlocks the Despotism, Monarchy, and Facism governments.

If Religion is your Social Policy, it unlocks the Polytheism, Monotheism, and Theocracy religions.

Since they appear to have had Democracy listed as a Social Policy, maybe they all are conjoined together.

I would think governments will likely be seperate from these, and available only if your Social Policies allow. These all sound like tech's from a tech tree though. Maybe they got rid of the tech tree, and this; along with other similar things, are what you do for research.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Sounds like what this is saying is that if Tyrrany is your Social Policy, it unlocks the Despotism, Monarchy, and Facism governments.

If Religion is your Social Policy, it unlocks the Polytheism, Monotheism, and Theocracy religions.

Since they appear to have had Democracy listed as a Social Policy, maybe they all are conjoined together.

I would think governments will likely be seperate from these, and available only if your Social Policies allow. These all sound like tech's from a tech tree though. Maybe they got rid of the tech tree, and this; along with other similar things, are what you do for research.

It sounded more like you advance along the different levels

ie your Religion Social Policy has advanced all the way to Theocracy
but your Tyrrany is only up to Monarchy
and Your Democracy is all the way advanced to Universal Suffrage
Your Tradition has advanced to customs
etc.

It does seem like a research tree(posibly you research social levels with Culture... After Techs have opened them up.)