Software piracy: What do you think about it?

[NY Hoya]

After reading a few comments about the Civ3 XP, I thought I'd make a poll to see what people think about the issue. Do not post any links to warez sites here.

I'm personally against software piracy, even though I do think some game companies tend to abuse their customers.

 

[allhailIndia]

It's completely illegal and anybody trying to make money from it is a blatant and open cheat


P.S. Even my Grandmom agrees with me when I explained to her the news article on TV

 

[Dell19]

There are certain circumstances where its kind of okay...Like if you would never have brought the game otherwise and then you like the series so much that you either pay for the game or the sequel.

 

[Greadius]

When I first read it I wasn't sure if you meant "get illegal copy of software and sell it" or "Get illegal copy of software and use it"

I think its a tricky area, kind of the same area napster and MP3s ended up. In circumstances where someone is looking to PROFIT off another persons work without compensating them, it is clearly illegal and wrong. But is it illegal and wrong for example, if my brother buys a game and makes me a copy?

 

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
It's completely illegal and anybody trying to make money from it is a blatant and open cheat

I'm glad we agree that Intellectual Property rights need be protected

 

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by Greadius
When I first read it I wasn't sure if you meant "get illegal copy of software and sell it" or "Get illegal copy of software and use it"

I think its a tricky area, kind of the same area napster and MP3s ended up. In circumstances where someone is looking to PROFIT off another persons work without compensating them, it is clearly illegal and wrong. But is it illegal and wrong for example, if my brother buys a game and makes me a copy?

I think the poll can apply to both circumstances, the person trying to profit from it and the person just doing it for their own use. It's wrong in both cases.

 

[philippe]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
It's completely illegal and anybody trying to make money from it is a blatant and open cheat


P.S. Even my Grandmom agrees with me when I explained to her the news article on TV

i agree with allhailindia

 

[amadeus]

I've got a kind of "gray area" -- I'll illegally download a program every now and then, and if I'm satisfied with it, then I will buy it.

Would you buy a house without going inside of it? A car without driving it?

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by Dell19
There are certain circumstances where its kind of okay...Like if you would never have brought the game otherwise and then you like the series so much that you either pay for the game or the sequel.

I also never intended to buy that jag.. but when I saw how EASY it is to steal it I did. It's not like I would buy it. Is that ok?

 

[Hitro]

Wow! A big majority for "wrong, always" so far.

Originally posted by Greadius
But is it illegal and wrong for example, if my brother buys a game and makes me a copy?

It may be illegal but I don't think it's wrong (morally). I think the idea of two brothers (maybe even living in one household) buying two copies of the same game is quite stupid. I don't see much of a problem with it in that case, although it's technically software piracy.

Originally posted by rmsharpe
I've got a kind of "gray area" -- I'll illegally download a program every now and then, and if I'm satisfied with it, then I will buy it.

I do the same, for example with "Operation Flashpoint". Or with music. Anyway this is technically also illegal, still I don't see a problem with it.

So I voted "ok in some circumstances".

 

[BlueMonday]

My attonement into software piracy has been cultivated by a long training of doublethink. I really had to think about what answer I was going to put on the poll. I think its wrong, but I don't care. If you'd have asked me six months ago, I would have just said I don't have a problem with it. If you'd have asked me nine months ago, I would have hated it and all people who do it.

I'm not going to lie and give you a Robin Hood style excuse for the jakked software I've got. I know it's wrong, but I really don't care. Sure I could rationalize it with some of that stuff about how I wouldn't have bought the stuff anyway, or I could speil about the greed of capitalism, blah blah blah...you've heard it all before.

I must say though, it sure has saved me a lot of money. There's no way I would ever ever ever fork over prices like:

Office XP: $1200
3D Studio Max: $5000
Maya: $9000
Fontfolio: $12000

I could buy a nice car with that kind of money.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by BlueMonday
My attonement into software piracy has been cultivated by a long training of doublethink. I really had to think about what answer I was going to put on the poll. I think its wrong, but I don't care. If you'd have asked me six months ago, I would have just said I don't have a problem with it. If you'd have asked me nine months ago, I would have hated it and all people who do it.

I'm not going to lie and give you a Robin Hood style excuse for the jakked software I've got. I know it's wrong, but I really don't care. Sure I could rationalize it with some of that stuff about how I wouldn't have bought the stuff anyway, or I could speil about the greed of capitalism, blah blah blah...you've heard it all before.

I must say though, it sure has saved me a lot of money. There's no way I would ever ever ever fork over prices like:

Office XP: $1200
3D Studio Max: $5000
Maya: $9000
Fontfolio: $12000

I could buy a nice car with that kind of money.

What are you doing with Maya?
It has a very big learning curve... 3dmax is kids play compared to it.

 

[NY Hoya]

Originally posted by BlueMonday
My attonement into software piracy has been cultivated by a long training of doublethink. I really had to think about what answer I was going to put on the poll. I think its wrong, but I don't care. If you'd have asked me six months ago, I would have just said I don't have a problem with it. If you'd have asked me nine months ago, I would have hated it and all people who do it.

I'm not going to lie and give you a Robin Hood style excuse for the jakked software I've got. I know it's wrong, but I really don't care. Sure I could rationalize it with some of that stuff about how I wouldn't have bought the stuff anyway, or I could speil about the greed of capitalism, blah blah blah...you've heard it all before.

I must say though, it sure has saved me a lot of money. There's no way I would ever ever ever fork over prices like:

Office XP: $1200
3D Studio Max: $5000
Maya: $9000
Fontfolio: $12000

I could buy a nice car with that kind of money.

your IP address has been logged. The men in black are on the way.

 

[Richard III]

I hate piracy so much, I'm halfway through writing a book on how terrible it is.

For all the complaints about the "oppressive high prices" for software and content, the odd thing is, I have an average income, and I've never had any trouble affording software, and have always bought originals. My CD collection is big, and I've never felt the need to go to Napster. I own several DVDs. And my standard of living has not declined because of these purchases. As somebody who has bought crap software like "Force 21," I do sympathise with the whole idea that you'd want to try it first, but it's still the producer/developer/creator's right to keep you from checking it out. The solution to that sort of problem is more beta testing, better post-release support, and an active consumer community, not the peice-by-peice destruction of IP-dependent industries.

Sid Meier would be a lonely geek TA'ing a big iron university compusci class in a state university if it weren't for intellectual property. Just imagine, pirates, what a world without IP would be like: goddamn boring, with about half of the opportunities for lower and middle class people to get ahead wiped off the screen, and artists out looking for "patronage" - which John Perry Barlow thinks is a good idea.

Yeah, easy for him. He's made his money.

(thanks for this poll, btw, NY Hoya; the tally so far is a credit to the CFC community)

 

[Padma]

Personally, I don't believe in Intellectual Property. There ain't no such animal.

That said, however, I do agree with the idea of copyright. Copyright law is very much out of whack, currently. Copyright is good for the life of the author +75 years? (I think that is the current law. If I'm wrong I know I'll be corrected. ) Copyright is supposed to apply for a limited time, and then the work becomes public domain.

Rather than descend into a rant about copyright law, I will just say that the law is the law, and pirating is illegal. Period. Given the state of copyright law, there are many instances where it is morally okay to make copies, but it is still illegal. The laws need changed.

(I'll shut up now before I go off the deep end. )

 

[Richard III]

Well Padma, I'm more than a little curious, what is out of whack with copyright? What should be changed?

PS I am a hardliner on permitting fair use, too, although the 2nd Circuit Appeals court a few weeks back about how "fair use is not the right to perfect use, e.g. the right to have clips from a DVD for review purposes is not the right to have broadcast quality clips..."

But I digress; I still want to hear where you would go with it.

 

[Padma]

Richard, the most important thing to me would be to bring the copyright times back down to a reasonable 'limited' time. I like the founding fathers' original idea of 7 years, with an extension for another 7. OK, I know that may sound unreasonable today. I wouldn't complain if it were even as high as 25 yrs.

But the whole idea behind copyright was to allow works to enter the public domain! The creator is given exclusive control for a limited time, and then the work becomes available for ALL to use and enjoy. The sharing of these works is supposed to be more important than the money to be made from them. It was supposed to provide anincentive for the author to continue to create new works, as they old ones wouldn't pay forever. And the flow of these new works into the public domain should benefit society as a whole.

Current copyright law has been stolen by major corporations (Disney, et. al.) to ensure perpetual control over their 'creations'. They are also the drive behind the Digital Millenium Copyroght Act, and the Security Systems Standards and Certification Act. The sole purpose of these acts is to take away the consumers' rights of fair use. They assume that all consumers are pirates at heart, and unless forced to abide by the law (including outlawing any fair use rights for digital media) we would go into such a copyright-infringement frenzy that it would destroy their corporations.

Sorry. Didn't mean to start ranting. It's hard to put together a coherent argument when at work, with boss and co-workers demanding attention.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Hitro
It may be illegal but I don't think it's wrong (morally). I think the idea of two brothers (maybe even living in one household) buying two copies of the same game is quite stupid. I don't see much of a problem with it in that case, although it's technically software piracy.
I do the same, for example with "Operation Flashpoint". Or with music. Anyway this is technically also illegal, still I don't see a problem with it.

We don't share a household, but we share software. Ironically I lent him Operation Flashpoint and he couldn't make a copy without corruption, so I gave it to him. Damn piracy protection
But I don't think the exchange is illegal... both of us have limited incomes and are only going to buy "X" games a month regardless. I agree that they're not obscenely priced, but I fail to see how the producers or marketers are getting the short end of the deal by what we do. People making the games want to share it AND make money; they're not loosing any money off of us, but they are gaining the enjoyment.
Another good example is a copy of Jedi Knight 2 I got off of him. I played the game for all of three days, I finished it, and the CD's been sitting there since then. So I should have bought the game and played it for 3 days? I would have returned it (always buy at EB)... the net result would have been the same, except EB would have lost in the exchange AND it would have been perfectly legal. Is that a preferable scenario?
And loyal customers when I can afford them without a second thought

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Greadius
We don't share a household, but we share software. Ironically I lent him Operation Flashpoint and he couldn't make a copy without corruption, so I gave it to him. Damn piracy protection

I had exactly the same problem with the same game and my brother.

But I don't think the exchange is illegal... both of us have limited incomes and are only going to buy "X" games a month regardless.

If you borrow it from him or vice versa it's probably not illegal. But I'm not sure if that's still the case when you burn him a copy.
Concerning copy protection:
I think (and not just me) that these are a violation of consumer rights. I have the right to make copies of software (and also music CDs) I own. With that technique they deny this right which is also illegal.

I agree with your view on these thing and there are studies that say the same (of course there are always also studies that say the opposite ). But I fear the industry won't listen to that.

 

[Scrimshaw]

I personally have no problem with piracy. I personally have probably 75% pirated software on my PC.

I make halfway decent money but with software prices like the ones bluemonday pointed out, I cannot afford to buy that kind of software(large applications, games are cheap in comparison). If not for pirated software I'd never have learned what I know of computers and I'd probably only own windows and a few games. Thanks to piracy, I've learned programming(my occupation) and many other applications an average joe like myself cannot afford.

I think it's important to the company producing the software to get their software known and widely used. I'd say 90% of people I know pirate software like office and would never own it othewise. That's a 10 fold increase in users because of piracy.

Not sure how true this next bit is but logically it makes sense. A software company makes most of it's money selling to companies not home users. For example in my company Catia costs about $50,000 a seat to license and almost all the CAD/CAM programmers have a legal copy. Thats 20 x 50,000 so they make 1 million in sales to my company alone and we aren't that big. At that price I'm sure that's more sales in my company than in my entire town. The only reason my company has it at all is because somebody brought a pirated copy in and management loved it so they got legal copies.

The point of the story. . .Eliminate piracy and you eliminate one the best advertising and promotion tools there is.