Wolfe Tone
Which Way Did He Go?
I assume that all the people who voted its always wrong has never downloaded a MP3 or borrowed a game from a friend (It says on the cd No Unauthorised lending)
Software piracy: What do you think about it?
- Thread starter NY Hoya
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Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
1. I have never even seen the Napster WWW screen. I have never used pirated software - at least to my knowledge, since it's possible that a friend showed me a game on a computer and his copy was pirated, but I don't know. I was just reflecting on this the other day; the closest I've come to piracy is photocopying pages from academic articles for research purposes, which I think would fall under any definition of fair use.
2. Akka, I know the feeling, it's like arguing with deaf people who can't read but can figure out how to copy CDs. First, you make a lot of assumptions about antitrust law; for starters, existing US laws are designed to protect consumers, not competitors. If competition still exists (and it does) and if the company in question is not using its monopoly to abuse consumers (which, given price drops in MS products overtime and a willingness to upgrade instead of maintaining a monopoly on the same product, it ain't), then the actual size of the market share is irrelevant. I can send you some case law if you'd like; but bear with me as it will take some time for my inadequete neurons to organize it all
.You can do pretty much anything you can do on MS on all other platforms. You might not be able to do as much of it - yes, there are fewer games, so sorry - but, outside of a few insults, you have yet to address how that gives you the right to pirate other people's work without compensation to cope with this terrible situation.
3. Like it or not, open-source is a socialist model of production. It allows those who have contributed to own the means of production. I happen to think it's a good socialist model, serving roughly the same function on servers and the like as a public road does in cottage country.
R.III
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
Like my first post, I accept that it's wrong, I just don't care.
...at least I'm being honest about ripping people off.
And I too am honest. For I will gladly "redress the balance" with anyone I find pirating anything I or my team produces (though intimidation is often enough).
But that goes for anything that anyone tries to steal from me or those I love. Time, space, goods, money, reputation... it's all the same. People get hurt.
But that goes for anything that anyone tries to steal from me or those I love. Time, space, goods, money, reputation... it's all the same. People get hurt.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
There's a big difference between wrong and illegal. Legality depends on the law while right or wrong depends on (personal) moral values. If a law doesn't reflect your moral values it is possible to regard something as not wrong although it is illegal.
As I said I voted "ok in some circumstances" because I do believe that there are circumstances (for example trying it out, getting what you wouldn't have bought at all) where it does not hurt anyone but can bring an advantage for you. In my view that is not wrong, whether it is illegal or not.
Switch625
I don't care.
True, there is a difference between wrong and illegal. However, theft is both wrong AND illegal. IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. People like BlueMonday ("I know it's theft, I just don't care") I can at least understand. People who can justify theft and not think it is wrong boggle my mind. Per your example of "trying out," consider the following:
I want to buy a new car, but I want to make sure it's the right car for me before I spend the money. Unfortunately, the dealer won't let me test drive it first. I, therefore, go steal a similar car to test it out. Is that illegal? Is that wrong? Please tell me how this example is any different than yours.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
First of all, you would get the opportunity to test drive it, which shows how serious that is taken in other industries.
But let's say it was like in the example you gave. If you'd go and steal one there would be a problem about it. But you could do that test drive in the car of someone who has already bought it. The company would have no problem with it. But if it want to test software with the one piece someone else has bought the company DOES have a problem with it. Copying (pirating) software to test it is in that sense nothing else than doing that test drive in another ones car.
Now you might say the car cannot be duplicated and then used by both of us, which is true. You may also say I can most likely not test drive the car of someone in America, which is also true. So there you have the difference.
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Hitro, that's a relatively cool attitude in my mind, provided one thing:
Let's say I could, tommorrow, wave a magic wand and convince most software companies to set up regimes whereby you could test or otherwise see their software. (I'm working on the magic wand, but that's another story). Films have trailers; music has radio, video and CD samples, so software retailers would suddenly put in extra effort to do what CD retailers do and allow for in-store sampling of product. Likewise with commercial sales: a company would get to test the product for a few days or something.
Would you stop all forms of piracy then?
I'm not trolling, it's a real question.
R.III
Let's say I could, tommorrow, wave a magic wand and convince most software companies to set up regimes whereby you could test or otherwise see their software. (I'm working on the magic wand, but that's another story). Films have trailers; music has radio, video and CD samples, so software retailers would suddenly put in extra effort to do what CD retailers do and allow for in-store sampling of product. Likewise with commercial sales: a company would get to test the product for a few days or something.
Would you stop all forms of piracy then?
I'm not trolling, it's a real question.
R.III
AVN
Deity
If I could try a software program and i would get a reasonable warranty then i would completely stop piracy.
(At the moment i don't have illegal programs anyway).
A good warranty means :
1 If the program doesn't do what i expect i can get my money
back and of course i will return the program. A period of 3 to 7
days is reasonable for this case.
2 If the program contains bugs they need to be solved by the
seller without any costs for the buyer. If the seller isn't able to
do this the buyer will be compensated. For this part of the
warranty i expect the usual period of 1 year is reasonable.
If software selling companies fulfill these two little points then i will buy their products and i will not trying to find cheaper solutions.
(At the moment i don't have illegal programs anyway).
A good warranty means :
1 If the program doesn't do what i expect i can get my money
back and of course i will return the program. A period of 3 to 7
days is reasonable for this case.
2 If the program contains bugs they need to be solved by the
seller without any costs for the buyer. If the seller isn't able to
do this the buyer will be compensated. For this part of the
warranty i expect the usual period of 1 year is reasonable.
If software selling companies fulfill these two little points then i will buy their products and i will not trying to find cheaper solutions.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
It is, however it is intended.
Something like a trailer couldn't do the same as the form of piracy I mean. An advertising spot for a new car couldn't place the test drive either. And there are already such things as demo versions, even without the magic wand.
However, if I would get the opportunity to test the game or other program the same way that this way of piracy offers me, I would stop it of course. It would no longer make any sense for me.
Still I won't say I would definetely stop ALL forms of piracy. There's what Blue Monday was talking about and there's the kind of piracy that doesn't hurt anyone. It's when you pirate (steal) something that you wouldn't have bought otherwise. Remember that we are talking about making copies. So that won't apply to stealing a car of course, software simply is a different matter.
I want to say something else about pirating software. It's not that I've never effectively stolen software/music. I guess only very few here have never done that. Legally that is wrong of course, morally I don't have much of a problem with it (naturally, otherwise I wouldn't have done it). The thing is, that consumers get ripped off in large scale by the software industry. They frequently sell products that aren't completed, sometimes not at all. As AVN mentioned the warranty is far from good. Especially games are usually delivered with that extreme numbers (and instances) of bugs that it can't be explained with the difficulties of programming alone. Besides they try to take my right of making copies of my game away. So the "other side" doesn't do its part as well.
Still I am one of the idiots that buy everything they want to have as long as the money is there. Theoretically I could steal everything but still I spend a big chunk of my money on software and music. I effectively couldn't spend more on it, so if I should "steal" (copy!!!) something after having spent to my limits, that doesn't hurt any company. They wouldn't have gotten any money anyway.
Civ 3 is a good example for it. It has so far no multiplayer (with keycode), can easily be copied and is a great game. So there would be no technical disadvantage in copying it, but I bought it. And it's good that way. But saying copying games is wrong is EVERY case goes to far.
P.S.: Tell me if that magic wall should be ready!
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Originally posted by Hitro
It is, however it is intended.
P.S.: Tell me if that magic wall should be ready!
It is what? Trolling, or a real question? I was confused there.
As for the magic wand, good things sometimes take time.
But I will let you know when it's waving, and you just convinced me to add about 1,000 words in my book about the need to deal with what I will call 'sampling' by being straitforward.
R.III
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
A real question. My apologies for leaving you in uncertainty.
But the lenght and content of my reply should have made clear that I regarded it as serious.
I would also be interested in that book, not only the wand.
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
I was just thinking about one of the things software companies could do. If you go out and download a game, even a full game in ISO you can't register it and most importantly you can't use it multiplayer. Sometimes, you can't even get the pathces and expansions to the game.
So I was thinking, maybe software comapnies should give you the option to legitmize your downloaded software. You'd go onto their website, you'd buy a valid CD-key, you'd replace the cracked game executable with a legitimate executable recognizable to the multiplayer servers and play away. This way both parties would get what they want. Because the software company didn't have to literally manufacture the product, package it, or distribute it they defer all those costs allowing them to simply sell to you legitmate access keys. The company gets the money (and almost all profit at that), and you get the legit game.
I doubt many software companies would ever do it, but it's a thought.
So I was thinking, maybe software comapnies should give you the option to legitmize your downloaded software. You'd go onto their website, you'd buy a valid CD-key, you'd replace the cracked game executable with a legitimate executable recognizable to the multiplayer servers and play away. This way both parties would get what they want. Because the software company didn't have to literally manufacture the product, package it, or distribute it they defer all those costs allowing them to simply sell to you legitmate access keys. The company gets the money (and almost all profit at that), and you get the legit game.
I doubt many software companies would ever do it, but it's a thought.
If software companies want real protection for their products they need to make the installing program on the disc have a unique id, that logs to the website, downloads the activation file, and the website logs the hardware of the downloading comp.
sorta like what microsoft does with xp, only worse.
but as we all know, everything is breakable.
sorta like what microsoft does with xp, only worse.
but as we all know, everything is breakable.
And you tell me where I get funding for Office XP and/or Windows XP?
What about a program like Maya?
A friend of mine is very talented in it... but he doesn't have no ten thousand dollars.
I also don't have extra cash to spend on visual c++, but what if I do want to program visual c++?
And myself... you really think I can fund myself photoshop?
No way, but I still use it, a lot.
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
Blue Monday, you'll be amused to learn that up here in Canada, an eville corporate group called the "Canadians Against Software Theft" (CAST) actually sponsored an "amnesty month" where businesses with pirated software could confess, negotiate a fee and be forgiven. Several companies - mostly midsized service firms, apparently - ponied up accordingly.
I do understand that your idea is obviously larger and more systemic than this, though, and has merit, but thought you'd want to know.
IceBlaze, I'm glad to hear that Israel recognizes the right of all its citizens to have Adobe Photoshop, regardless of income. I'm sure the Knesset will pass the "Free Jobs for Unemployed Software Sector Workers Act" in the near future as a complementary measure.
R.III
I do understand that your idea is obviously larger and more systemic than this, though, and has merit, but thought you'd want to know.
IceBlaze, I'm glad to hear that Israel recognizes the right of all its citizens to have Adobe Photoshop, regardless of income. I'm sure the Knesset will pass the "Free Jobs for Unemployed Software Sector Workers Act" in the near future as a complementary measure.
R.III
I have to say that in some cases its ok.
I own 4 computers, 2 desktops and 2 laptops. one of my laptops is run a preinstalled Windows XP that I bougth it with and the other 3 have windows 98, Now I'm not going to lie I only own one copy of Windows 98. Accorning to Microsoft if I have 3 personal computers at home I'm required to own three copies of Windows or a mult lisence. Now it may be just me but I don't see spending money on 2 more OS or a mult lisence just so I can have it on more then one computer.
I most say that in that case I don't see it as a problem but I would have to say that is the only case that I would see it as ok.
I own 4 computers, 2 desktops and 2 laptops. one of my laptops is run a preinstalled Windows XP that I bougth it with and the other 3 have windows 98, Now I'm not going to lie I only own one copy of Windows 98. Accorning to Microsoft if I have 3 personal computers at home I'm required to own three copies of Windows or a mult lisence. Now it may be just me but I don't see spending money on 2 more OS or a mult lisence just so I can have it on more then one computer.
I most say that in that case I don't see it as a problem but I would have to say that is the only case that I would see it as ok.
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