Solver's unofficial BtS 3.17 patch

[EmperorFool]

The advantage of the Glance screen is that you do not need to click on a leader. Everything can be seen at a glance.

Thus the title. I find it extremely useful, and it's an option in BUG. BUG also adds a fist icon next to pairs of civs at war. </BUG-plug>

Do you know what reason there was for this rule [no civic changes in golden age] ?

I may be myself, but IIRC you used to suffer anarchy for switching civics during a golden age, in effect shortening your golden age.

Edit: See Solver's post above.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Edit: About the missionary gifting. I like the idea of just not allowing missionaries to be gifted. The only reason to gift a missionary to someone rather than use it on their city yourself is if you can't because of theocracy.

That is not quite true. One reason to gift missionaries to the AI is to circumvent the 3 missionaries/religion limit.

Another possible reason is given below:
There was a situation I had one game: Me and My AI friend Both run religion A. I was planning to fight another AI in the future (running religion B), one with which I couldn't seem to get open borders with but my AI ally could.
So the idea was to Gift to my AI friend a missionary so that they could pass it on to that other AI with which they had open borders (but I didn't) so that when the time came to take their cities, they would have a shorter resistance period and i could use them faster. However my ally was running theoracy, so that wasn't an option.

 

[CivCorpse]

You know what would be GREAT? A button you could click on that makes you able to say to your workers: "Don't build any improvements on this tile."

Right now I have to turn off worker automation because they're ruining my future national park. Not removing trees, but building improvements where the trees can grow =(

If this could be done:
Button should be available when you have a worker selected and should count for all workers. Selection should be very similar to "bombing selection", if you know what I mean.

If you were able to do such a thing, I would bow down in awe.

Just go pilliage the new improvement

 

[Roland Johansen]

The main problem that I have with missionary gifting to civilisations who are using the theocracy civic is that it takes away a hurdle. Theocracy using civilisations seem to symbolise the religious zealots that cannot be converted to your religion and have a military bonus to fight the likes of you.

Then you learn about this trick: you can gift your missionary to this religious zealot and they will automatically without thought use your missionary on their cities. And when you use this trick often enough, then the religious zealot will convert to your religion and become your best buddy.

And that is totally wrong. I really don't think that that is how the designers intended that the religious zealot should behave. I even think that it's about the furthest away that you can get from the intended behaviour. Really, if this is intended behaviour, then why not just allow foreign missionaries to spread their religion inside a theocratic civilisation. It wouldn't really make any difference as you can easily do it now.

If missionary gifting will result in the AI spreading the foreign religion in their civilisation, then why is there a rule that stops you from directly spreading this religion in their city. The rule seems completely useless. It has zero effect. Of course, AI's won't use the trick to gift missionaries, so in effect the theocracy religion spread rule limits AI's from spreading a religion to a theocratic civilisation but it doesn't limit humans from doing this.

 

[Caboose]

Just go pilliage the new improvement

Every time they make it? I have other things to do than to watch my workers make improvements that put sticks in my wheels.

BESIDES, you can't pillage roads in your own territory. No, seriously, if anyone could add such a button I would be eternally gateful.

 

[Woody1]

The main problem that I have with missionary gifting to civilisations who are using the theocracy civic is that it takes away a hurdle. Theocracy using civilisations seem to symbolise the religious zealots that cannot be converted to your religion and have a military bonus to fight the likes of you.

Then you learn about this trick: you can gift your missionary to this religious zealot and they will automatically without thought use your missionary on their cities. And when you use this trick often enough, then the religious zealot will convert to your religion and become your best buddy.

Why do you care? If you consider that a cheat, THEN DON'T DO IT. It's really that simple. You shouldn't need a patch fix to stop you from cheating. I don't expect you want a patch to remove the worldbuilder, to prevent you from giving yourself free units or cash, do you?

We could argue the pros and cons of whether the AI should accept missionary gifts during theocracy, but it's a moot debate. Even if you're right, only the human player would use that exploit. And he has to go to the effort of doing it that way, rather than using the normal approach to spread religion with his own missionaries. So just don't do it!

 

[Willem]

The forestation issue needs to be fixed though.

Soon please?

 

[Willem]

Well, if I understand correctly, the forests get added because there isn't enough land food to start with. If SevenSpirits adjusted that through adjusting food distribution, that's good. Anyway, I'll need the code from BH's patch, so it's gonna take a while

It seems to me though that he's done things backwards. Rather than placing the food tiles first so the Forest doesn't gets spammed, he's just replacing a Forest tile with a food resource after the BFC has been filled with trees.

 

[Willem]

You know what would be GREAT? A button you could click on that makes you able to say to your workers: "Don't build any improvements on this tile."

Right now I have to turn off worker automation because they're ruining my future national park. Not removing trees, but building improvements where the trees can grow =(

If this could be done:
Button should be available when you have a worker selected and should count for all workers. Selection should be very similar to "bombing selection", if you know what I mean.

If you were able to do such a thing, I would bow down in awe.

That's really not something that needs to be fixed and would probably require alot of work to implement. As mentioned many times now Solver is attempting to fix any remaining bugs in the game and improver the AI, which means the other civs basically. He's not concerned with gameplay changes which is what your suggestion would be considered. If you don't want your Workers building improvements where you don't want them, then just don't automate. You're really better off using that approach anyway, most of the high level players don't use automation. Or, if you really insist on letting them make your decisions for you, you can always get one of your units to pillage the improvement you don't want to have in place.

 

[Willem]

Every time they make it? I have other things to do than to watch my workers make improvements that put sticks in my wheels.

Then don't automate, problem solved.

 

[EmperorFool]

I'm so confused about this missionary-gifting issue.

Can an AI actually spread a non-state religion in their own cities under Theocracy? Or will an AI switch out of Theocracy simply because you gift them a missionary?

If no and no, then the only sensible thing for an AI to do when gifted a non-state-religion missionary would be to delete it. Blocking the gift is saving you from having your unit deleted.

I must be missing some nuance here. Yes, I understand the idea of hoping they will pass the missionary along to yet another civ, but seriously, that's your job.

 

[Balderstrom]

Yeah it stops the automatic spread of religion to your empire, and prevents Missionaries from being used by your opponent in your lands.

I'm pretty sure I've been able to spread my 2nd religion in my own empire with missionaries, when running Theocracy.

 

[Caboose]

Then don't automate, problem solved.

Really, that's like saying:

"Hey, doc, I have a problem with premature ejaculation."

Doc:

"Then don't have sex, problem solved."


To me, this is a problem. I can't use automation because my workers ruin my future national park. And as you probably know (I even said this), you can't pillage your own roads, which my workers make where I want the trees to grow. If this patch is for higher level players only then I'm outta here pronto.

 

[Balderstrom]

And I can't use Automate Workers, cuz my workers are incredibly inept!

They don't read my mind and build what I want, when I want it...

Can someone fix this please?

 

[Caboose]

Do all Canadians act like jackasses?

Listen, Automation is a part of the game. Whether you or your high leveled friends use it or not. Maybe you can stop being a moron for a second and let someone else who actually cares about it answer.

I don't use automation all the time, but when I've improved what I plan to improve, I put the workers on automation when I don't know what to make anymore. I guess that gives you the right to talk crap to me. I didn't ask for a fix for the automation intelligence, by the way.

Moderator Action: Warned! - Flaming
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Duuk]

If you don't want to automate them, don't.

Otherwise, they're going to build what they want where they want.

You can always build over it later (unless they clear the forest).

Personally, I have:

'Automated workers leave old improvements' and
'Automated workers leave forests'

Clicked at all times.

Also, use the 'Automate Trade' worker button. That way all they'll do is connect resources. Then keep a worker or two non-automated to build cottages.

 

[Caboose]

Ok, it's about time you people read what you respond to.

I can't use automation because my workers ruin my future national park. And as you probably know, you can't pillage your own roads, which my workers make where I want the trees to grow.

So you can't "build over it later".

 

[Willem]

And as you probably know (I even said this), you can't pillage your own roads, which my workers make where I want the trees to grow.

Roads don't prevent Forests from growing on a square, only other improvements do. So you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you don't want the improvement your automated Workers build, just go out and pillage it. As long as you have Workers Leave Forests checked, you don't have a problem.

 

[Caboose]

To quantify:
There is a base chance of 0.1% for forest to spread, per square, per turn. This is cumulative based on the number of adjacent forests, so a square in the middle of a 4 forest cross has a 0.4% chance. If there is a preserve in one direction, the chance increases to 0.8% per square per turn. (or 3.2% if in the middle of a 4 preserve cross) This means, assuming only one adjacent forest with preserve, it will still take on average over 100 turns for the forest to spread to any given square.

Finally, all these probabilities are cut in half if there is a road.

Do you get it?

 

[EmperorFool]

People are perhaps being snide or rude or whatever because they are frustrated. This is already a very long thread, making it hard to keep up with the relevant posts. And then people continue requesting new features or changes that Solver has stated are out of the scope of his patch.

Sure, it would be great if people just ignored the posts instead of "being jackasses," but then this wouldn't be an online forum, would it. Myself, I try to remember to take a nice, long, deep breath before I hit "Submit Reply."

@Solver - How about modifying your first post to clearly state what types of issues this patch is meant to address? I don't know if it will help much, but it couldn't hurt. ​