Some forgotten-but-important technologies

The unsung heroes of modern (post-WWII) economic systems:

Sea containers: increase global trade +400%. :eek:

Think about it, without these there wouldn't be no globalization, no chinese economic boom, no cheap fresh fruits in your supermarket, etc. etc...

I thinks this is one of the biggest omissions in the whole game, there are included several less influential techs. :rolleyes:
 
Interesting thread, I definitely agree with the Telegraph ideas.

If we subscribe to the idea that poles would be erected every 5 tiles.
Possibly each pole requires 4 turns to complete and can't be further than 4 tiles away from another pole.

T====T====T

Building a Pole on a tile that has a railroad should likely be completed 50% Faster (2 Turns).

Culture could travel more efficiently along lines where Telephone poles have been erected. Commerce bonuses for Trade could be implemented for cities connected by Telephone lines.

The only issue I see with this idea, is that building the internet is a 2000 Hammer Project. If Telephone pole/lines became a reality in CIV - it would need to bear in mind that the Internet would likely need to be limited to where there are Telephone lines connecting cities. And the Internet "bonus" where you get Technologies from 2 civ's wouldn't make much sense ....

Unless the building of the internet inherently auto-connects Your Civ w/ the 2 other civ's - linking them up with Internet-ready Telegraph poles - without having to send workers out to manually lay them down.
 
Seen a few of the posts making Cavalry/Horseman Archer recommendations. This is something I would definitely enjoy, two of the things most lacking in CIV atm is Naval consistency, and sparse options for Horsemanship.

More options for Horse Archer's; Mounted Scouts; and something beyond "Cavalry" -- just because the "real world" didn't have much of anything beyond mounted Cavalry doesn't mean CIV needs to subscribe to that ideal.

Why can't I have mounted Infantry :-) Fun should trump reality for all instances :cool:

EDIT:
Really bothers me how weak Horses are vs Spears,
I believe balance would be greatly improved to do the following:
Spears:
+50% vs Mounted
+50% Defend vs Mounted
Also possibly
+25% Defend vs Melee

It makes no sense whatsoever that a spearman can attack Horses so effectively.
 
Yeah, telegraphy could be so awesome. Terrestrial telegraphy is one thing, and could be handled with a single tech, upgrading roads with telegraph-poles - for the sake of simplicity. Now submarine cables are way more interessting! First, you'd need access to gutta-percha (very rare) for the insulation, later some other plants could appear (perhaps with random events; new plant suitable for latex found - which happend with the bullet tree) enabling other civilisations to lay cables... until the event of synthetics/plastics...

This could add so much to gameplay:

- national/terrestrial communication-networks could be either build by private enterprises (linking the valuable cities automatically) or you could built a state-network (where every city is linked, or sth.) handled per civics?

- for submarine cables: you should be allowed to plan the routes and lay them automatically by ships (with increasing distance), early cable-laying attempts are bound to fail at high %, but the more are layed, the better the success-rate.

- Again: submarine cables should be laid either by state/planned by you and there should be corporations/great engineers that will lay them automatically (like spreading), but only where economics flourish.

- there should be the gutta-percha resource, without you can't lay early submarine cables (or pay much more for it!)

- there should be cable-ships, repairing such cables. There should be possibilities to cut those cables or to wire-tap (spionage!).. those cables are bound to be important up into the modern/future age!

- Overall, telecommunications-systems should be totally overworked: from early optical signaling (fires, etc. way not only for certain civs/or bound to wonders) to messengers (horses, ...) to carrier pigeons (bonus-tech? not every civilization should use all system of communication..) to optical systems/telegraphy (semaphore, ...) to the electric telegraph... wireless telegraphy, telephones, submarine cables, and so on...

Now each of those communication-system should drastically alter your possibilities of commanding your troops and colonies. Therefore, the better the communication, the better the `fog-of-war`/informations on the map or simply spionage-information. Also there should be a delay in commanding your colonies, if there is no direct communication. And if the barbarians have plundered one of your colonies far away, you shouldn't be able to do something about it, until it's too late.. something.. I don't know how this could be done, without restricting the gameplay toomuch.

This should also affect the dimplomatic possibilities. Beeing in direct contact from leader to leader instantly from the start is just silly. Working out contracts should take some time/turns.

Also there should be the possibility for censorship of foreign messages (why not allow telegraphy for military only, open it to the public with other effects, etc..) There should be a need to have your own cables. What about cable-message-forgery if you are in the position to do so? :D


Also: telegraphy enabled the first usefull weather-forecasts: no more crop failure (random events) due to a unforseen snowstorm, ... also all the ships are way more safer now.

Time can be distributed (from observatories) and synchronized. There could be diplomatics about timezones, etc.

There should be telegraph conventions and a bureau handling international deals (dropping tariffs, deciding on apparatus/codes to use).. and here: only those states can participate/vote which have a national system (eg. the US had a private telegraph system and was not allowed to vote)

This whole field could add so much to civ!
 
I think fermentation is a big one that the dev missed. It enables the production of bread + alcohol which are essential to our daily diet.
 
I think fermentation is a big one that the dev missed. It enables the production of bread + alcohol which are essential to our daily diet.

It was definitely essential to my diet in college. :)

Nice Necro, although I haven't had time to read through it all. I have several ideas, but they'll have to wait until I get a chance to go through the thread first. One thing I notice is that many ideas for included techs are already included in the current tech system - albeit in a more general to tangential way (see Stirrup v Horseback Riding for ex). In my eyes, Fermentation would seem to be included in Pottery, or Agriculture. But, that's just me. Some of these things might actually be mentioned in the civpedia entries for each tech, although I haven't read them.
 
It was definitely essential to my diet in college. :)

Nice Necro, although I haven't had time to read through it all. I have several ideas, but they'll have to wait until I get a chance to go through the thread first. One thing I notice is that many ideas for included techs are already included in the current tech system - albeit in a more general to tangential way (see Stirrup v Horseback Riding for ex). In my eyes, Fermentation would seem to be included in Pottery, or Agriculture. But, that's just me. Some of these things might actually be mentioned in the civpedia entries for each tech, although I haven't read them.

agriculture or the process of domesticating wild plants was discovered loooong before fermentation and pottery is a whole different process so idk, i still think fermentation is a very important tech, maybe it gives large cities +10% happiness at the cost of +5% chance of riot (drunk driving maybe)
 
agriculture or the process of domesticating wild plants was discovered loooong before fermentation and pottery is a whole different process so idk, i still think fermentation is a very important tech, maybe it gives large cities +10% happiness at the cost of +5% chance of riot (drunk driving maybe)

I guess it's covered by monarchy as you can start building wineries then. Not sure how monarchy is related to the fermentation of grapes though.
 
I guess it's covered by monarchy as you can start building wineries then. Not sure how monarchy is related to the fermentation of grapes though.

fermentation was before monarchy too i guess the dev's will have over 9000 tech's if they include "small" discoveries like fermentation
 
The discussion in this thread shows why I believe technologies should be split into several levels of advancement, where higher levels are not usually required to access later technologies, but always provide additional benefits and accelerated research to later technologies.

Alphabet: Symbolic (Egyptian), Syllabic (East Asian), Phonemic (Latin/Germanic).
Mathematics: Arithmetic, Fractions, Concept of Zero, Algebra, Calculus, etc.
Communications: Telegraph, Telephone, Radio, Television, Digital Cable, Fiber Optics, Future Tech, Future Tech, etc.
 
All this technology, invention, improvement does not necessary to be represented in tech-tree. They can be represented in other term, such as building, promotion or wonders.

Item in this thread that crossed my mind:
To decreases city maintenance, we can build Telegraph Office which available after certain tech. Or maybe there's building 'promotion'.

Stirrup or keel can be represented as Unit promotion.
 
Yeah, but not everybody is a scientist and appreciates the difference between theories, discoveries, technologies and inventions. So I'd guess we should leave it as simple as it can get. For instance:

Mathematics is a theory
I guess this is self-evident. Abstract thought with remarkable consequences in the real world.

Bronze working is a discovery
Somebody stumbled it upon while mixing, probably by mistake, 2 different metals. From then on, killing was easier, and women prettier.

The wheel is an invention
Stumbling upon it is not enough, a relatively new application is required. For instance, nobody ever built a civilization on hand-pushed carts. But using the wheel to make wagons and chariots attached to horses or oxes is quite another thing. That's why the wheel did not find its role in pre-colombian american civilizations. There ARE ancient indian toys with wheels, but the transport and military applications of the wheel remained untapped because there wasn't any animal powerful enough, and without it no "invention" of the connection between animal power and wheel "amplifier".

Electricity is a full fledged technology
comprehensive of discoveries, like reproducible electrical phenomena (Volta), theories like the physics of electricity, and inventions like power production, engines, telegraph, ,lightbulbs etc.

Let's see if I can manage to categorize the Civ IV (BtS) technologies by this system.
If you think you can categorize it better than I did, please do.

Theories:
Spoiler :
Aesthetics
Astronomy
Communism
Democracy
Divine Right
Economics
Education
Fascism
Feudalism
Liberalism
Mathematics
Meditation
Military Tradition
Monarchy
Monotheism
Music
Mysticism
Nationalism
Philosophy
Polytheism
Priesthood
Scientific Method
Theology


Discoveries:
Spoiler :
Animal Husbandry
Archery
Bronze Working
Calendar
Construction
Engineering
Fishing
Fission
Flight
Fusion
Genetics
Gunpowder
Horseback Riding
Hunting
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Mining
Optics
Pottery
Sailing
Steel


Inventions:
Spoiler :
Alphabet
Artillery
Assembly Line
Banking
Civil Service
Code of Laws
Compass
Composites
Constitution
Corporation
Currency
Drama
Fiber Optics
Guilds
Laser
Paper
Plastics
Printing Press
Radio
Railroad
Refrigeration
Rifling
Satellites
Superconductors
The Wheel


Technologies:
Spoiler :
Agriculture
Advanced Flight
Biology
Chemistry
Combustion
Computers
Electricity
Future Tech (It has Tech in the name :p)
Industrialism
Machinery
Masonry
Mass Media
Medicine
Military Science
Physics
Replaceable Parts
Robotics
Rocketry
Stealth
Steam Power
Writing


Not Sure at All:
Ecology
Literature
 
No the Maya used what looks like a coca bean for the zero. The used the base twenty which is exactly equal to the base ten in complexity and ease of use.
 
They need some kind of tech to mark the transition from militia armies into the drilled, professional armies of today (unless you live in Switzerland) which makes all troops infinitely tougher
 
They need some kind of tech to mark the transition from militia armies into the drilled, professional armies of today (unless you live in Switzerland) which makes all troops infinitely tougher

It's called Military Tradition.
 
It's called Military Tradition.

Yeah, I initially thought the same thing, but I think what he's describing is more of an xp bonus for well-drilled professional armies. Maybe, a +1 xp for Barracks and Stables with MT.
 
Yeah, I initially thought the same thing, but I think what he's describing is more of an xp bonus for well-drilled professional armies. Maybe, a +1 xp for Barracks and Stables with MT.

That's what I meant - ancient greek city-state armies are covered by military tradition, as that just shows that there is a 'military mentality', but not neccessarily a professional army
 
Bricks - This might easily be considered part of Masonry, but the Masonry tech mostly enables buildings of cut stone (like the pyramids). If not a seperate tech, there should be a seperate building, like a kiln or furnace. The existing Forge (+25% hammers) makes sense as a production boost for military units, but bricks would be far more important for building a library, lighthouse, monastery, temple, etc.


Clock-making - may be considered part of Astronomy


Glassmaking - not sure what effect it would have, but it's a signficant bit of technology


Rebar (reinforced concrete) [suggested by Xenocrates]
(Zongo commented: If you refer to "armed" concrete (reinforced with metal bars) than the tech would be again steel - which is also what allows skyscrapers.)

Very true, Zongo. My thought is that steel does a lot of other things, and the invention of armed concrete is sort of "deserving" of recognition. But I suppose such recognition might not serve any good game design purpose.


Newtonian Mechanics
Modern Physics
- The problem with just having "Physics" as a technology is that Newton's laws of motion come three centuries before Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.


Electricity
"Teslantics" (i.e., everything Nikolai Tesla did)
- Nineteenth century electrical usage gave us telegraphs, the light bulb, and industrial generators. Collectively, these represent a very substantial leap forward. But then Tesla gave us everything else (exaggerating, yes). Arguably, this is represented in the game with "Radio" but the Radio tech gives us-- what? -- bombers? Broadcast towers? Hardly adequate.


I think that truly great techs are those which were invented independently ONLY ONCE, and then passed on.

Possibly falling under that category:

dynamite (suggested by Leif Roar, along with some other good stuff)

vulcanized rubber

paseurization

crossword puzzles


Cheers,
Jason
 
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