Crossword Puzzles? Free Brains 1 promotion for all units?
Some forgotten-but-important technologies
- Thread starter Lordclane
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Ian Kognitow
Deserter
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- Feb 27, 2006
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How about standardized time?
It could require electricity and railroad, giving a boost to commerce or trade.
It could require electricity and railroad, giving a boost to commerce or trade.
1010011010
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2008
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- 2
Spionage has improved lot since civIII thanks to the spy-unit (and especially with the superspies mod). The concept works very well; decreasing abstraction (from the menu to the actual unit) and increasing fun and gameplay value.
Now the same should apply to diplomacy: In the early ages, either all units (or only a `king`-unit) should be able to do some `primitive diplomacy`, but once in the renaisannce time (or earlier with some tech), diplomats should be needed - warriors rejected. Diplomats can interact either with diplomats from any other civ or they have to travel to their capital (one way or the other). Diplomats should gain experience and have some special promotions. Also embassies should offer some diplomatic advantages. After using a diplomat in a foreign capital, the unit should return to its own capital - like spies.
Now, once the telegraph arrives and you complete a line to another civ/capital, you wont have to move your diplomats anymore. Though, you wont have the bonus/promotions from the diplomats (telegraph messages are short, persuading/argueing doesnt work here... telephone would better the situation for allowing direct conversation.) EDIT: or actually, once such communication is possible, just let the diplomat stay wherever he is instead of teleporting him home. (this would simulate you talking over the wires to your diplomats, who then could carry out your orders. That would be more acurate I guess.)
How about that?
Now the same should apply to diplomacy: In the early ages, either all units (or only a `king`-unit) should be able to do some `primitive diplomacy`, but once in the renaisannce time (or earlier with some tech), diplomats should be needed - warriors rejected. Diplomats can interact either with diplomats from any other civ or they have to travel to their capital (one way or the other). Diplomats should gain experience and have some special promotions. Also embassies should offer some diplomatic advantages. After using a diplomat in a foreign capital, the unit should return to its own capital - like spies.
Now, once the telegraph arrives and you complete a line to another civ/capital, you wont have to move your diplomats anymore. Though, you wont have the bonus/promotions from the diplomats (telegraph messages are short, persuading/argueing doesnt work here... telephone would better the situation for allowing direct conversation.) EDIT: or actually, once such communication is possible, just let the diplomat stay wherever he is instead of teleporting him home. (this would simulate you talking over the wires to your diplomats, who then could carry out your orders. That would be more acurate I guess.)
How about that?
Let's see if I can manage to categorize the Civ IV (BtS) technologies by this system.
If you think you can categorize it better than I did, please do.
Theories:
Spoiler :
Discoveries:
Spoiler :
Inventions:
Spoiler :
Technologies:
Spoiler :
Not Sure at All:
Ecology
Literature
)One thing I would point out, "Theories" includes some things that are not quite scientific theories, but simply widespread ideas or philosophies. Such as Divine Right, Liberalism, and Theology. In that case, if you view it as a mindset, you could put Ecology, in the sense of a focus on the environment instead of the human, in with that category.
Literature really strikes me as an application of Writing and the Alphabet, so I would assign it to the Technologies category. That's a hard one to call, though.
Ramesses
Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.
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Actually, there's another thing I noticed about Civ4 technologies. When a tech is discovered, one of four sounds is played before the quote is read. I'm wondering if techs with the same sound belong to the same group.
I categorized the techs based on intro sounds, so that we could see if there is actually a pattern involved. But I'll be honest, it does seem totally arbitrary.
I categorized the techs based on intro sounds, so that we could see if there is actually a pattern involved. But I'll be honest, it does seem totally arbitrary.
Spoiler :
Can't see a logic - maybe it's designed so that yo get a variation in the sounds as yo research them?
-FC-Commando
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2007
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Halftrack /assembly line, combustion, oil / 24 str, 3 movement, 160 hammers, +50% vs gunpowder, can carry 2 infantry units.
Mortar / assembly line, railroad / 18 str, 1 movement, 160 hammers, can only attack, + 50% city attack, causes collateral damage, can be promoted with city raider.
Coastal Battery / artillery, steel / 120 hammers, can intercept naval unit within 4 spaces from city (50% chance), +50% defence from amphibious attack.
Bi-plane / replaces Airship, nuff said.
Helicopter / flight, industrialism, oil / 16 str, 4 movement, 120 hammers, doesnt need to land, can evade interception (50% chance), ignores terrain movement, cannot capture cities, doesnt receive defensive bonus, can transport 2 infantry units.
Mortar / assembly line, railroad / 18 str, 1 movement, 160 hammers, can only attack, + 50% city attack, causes collateral damage, can be promoted with city raider.
Coastal Battery / artillery, steel / 120 hammers, can intercept naval unit within 4 spaces from city (50% chance), +50% defence from amphibious attack.
Bi-plane / replaces Airship, nuff said.
Helicopter / flight, industrialism, oil / 16 str, 4 movement, 120 hammers, doesnt need to land, can evade interception (50% chance), ignores terrain movement, cannot capture cities, doesnt receive defensive bonus, can transport 2 infantry units.
I would like to see light tanks at least
I would like to see airships be recon-only and have biplane units as your early warplane. Then you upgrade to WW2 style fighters and bombers, then onwards to modern stuff.
Light and heavy armored vehicles is another distinction that could be made, but I think it is less necessary than the aircraft distinction and the "water gap" between the Age of Sail and the modern era, currently plugged by the Ironclad in the most inadequate fashion. But it's still necessary.
Light and heavy armored vehicles is another distinction that could be made, but I think it is less necessary than the aircraft distinction and the "water gap" between the Age of Sail and the modern era, currently plugged by the Ironclad in the most inadequate fashion. But it's still necessary.
Sporkbomb
Screaming Mayan
Not necessarily. The Greeks and Romans used horses effectively without stirrups. Same with the Native Americans once horses were introduced to North America. You don't NEED stirrups to ride a horse, it just makes it a lot easier.
I believe that debate was over the unit it allowed, horse archers. Using a bow from horseback without stirrups is near-impossible, unlike using a light lance or a sword. I guess it's because you don't have a free hand. In that case, the current Civ4 tech "implies" the development of Stirrups.
No one so far has mentioned Photography for some reason. It:
- has become an art form (improved artist output?)
- has altered news reporting when it appeared. During the Crimean war, it made clear the atrocities of battle (increased war weariness?)
- it is an essential step, it seems to me, for the development of technologies leading to television and film.
In a CivV game it should be introduced just after SciMeth, with a low research cost, and could appear in a new branch leading towards Mass Media and including new possibilities and game aspects.
- has become an art form (improved artist output?)
- has altered news reporting when it appeared. During the Crimean war, it made clear the atrocities of battle (increased war weariness?)
- it is an essential step, it seems to me, for the development of technologies leading to television and film.
In a CivV game it should be introduced just after SciMeth, with a low research cost, and could appear in a new branch leading towards Mass Media and including new possibilities and game aspects.
To make it simple, discovering photography could just give +1 happiness in all cities. At least, if you wanted to do something simple in the XML now, that would work.
I've been considering a Logistics technology that would enable the Medic and March promotions in the Classical Age. The intent was to represent the development of military support from the homeland for campaigns in foreign territory, as well as early military organization, etc. It would probably require Writing and Bronze Working, or maybe Sailing (makes sense to ship the supplies). Really don't know yet.
Also, I've been considering Sociology, as a possible Industrial Age technology, that improves the health of factories and industrial parks slightly. Also, I would move the Environmentalism civic from Medicine (which doesn't make any sense to me--healing people != caring for environment) to this technology (which makes a little more sense, but not by much). I guess I just want it to have a slightly greater benefit than eliminating a health penalty. Don't know what the prerequisites would be, but probably the Medicine, Liberalism, and Industrialization lines would be considered.
I've been considering a Logistics technology that would enable the Medic and March promotions in the Classical Age. The intent was to represent the development of military support from the homeland for campaigns in foreign territory, as well as early military organization, etc. It would probably require Writing and Bronze Working, or maybe Sailing (makes sense to ship the supplies). Really don't know yet.
Also, I've been considering Sociology, as a possible Industrial Age technology, that improves the health of factories and industrial parks slightly. Also, I would move the Environmentalism civic from Medicine (which doesn't make any sense to me--healing people != caring for environment) to this technology (which makes a little more sense, but not by much). I guess I just want it to have a slightly greater benefit than eliminating a health penalty. Don't know what the prerequisites would be, but probably the Medicine, Liberalism, and Industrialization lines would be considered.
I would like to see airships be recon-only and have biplane units as your early warplane. Then you upgrade to WW2 style fighters and bombers, then onwards to modern stuff.
Light and heavy armored vehicles is another distinction that could be made, but I think it is less necessary than the aircraft distinction and the "water gap" between the Age of Sail and the modern era, currently plugged by the Ironclad in the most inadequate fashion. But it's still necessary.
What is the gap between Victory through to the Ironclads of the American Civil War to HMS Dreadnought?
Was that a sarcastic comment, or a serious one?
The battleships in the game seem to represent WW2 era battleships. There is a distinct lack of ship types represented in WW1 or the late 1890's...there are many possible ship types (Wolfshanze goes overboard and throws as many as he can in), but one or two extras with about ~20 strength and the ability to sail across the ocean before you get to WW2 destroyers and battleships would be nice.
The battleships in the game seem to represent WW2 era battleships. There is a distinct lack of ship types represented in WW1 or the late 1890's...there are many possible ship types (Wolfshanze goes overboard and throws as many as he can in), but one or two extras with about ~20 strength and the ability to sail across the ocean before you get to WW2 destroyers and battleships would be nice.
It was intended to be serious - but on reflection the steam-ships of the Russo-Japanese war in 1905 seem to be a good candidate
champ82
Immortal Ruler
Photograph, telegraphs, logistics, ambassadors / embassies - all interesting ideas. The ambassador unit might be too slow and encounter similar problems to units being too slow - but it would be even more frustrating.
Logistics could maybe give a small hammer bonus to harbors or maybe all cities?
Maybe maintenance costs from distance to capital should go down after nationalism... or radio...or both? One of the reasons the "big 3" networks (NBC, CBS, ABC) were not broken up by the FCC was that it created 'national hegemony' or something like that. At any rate I don't think, using the modern US as an example, Baltimore or Richmond, VA is paying a lot less maintenance costs than Seattle or Los Angeles, and the US is certainly not running State Property. Maybe a national wonder would be required to reflect this. Of course, comparing Civ to real life does get a bit silly.
Another thing - slightly off topic - should there be map clarity from merchants? As it is you can easily have trade routes to cities that are not on your map. Come on faithful merchants...help out our civ here, you obviously know how to get to Beijing, would you mind telling your immortal ruler where it is please? I also think it's hilarious when a religion is passively sent to a city before the civs even know where each other are. "So one day we started believing this religion. Don't know where it came from, but we didn't invent it. Some guy from some far off land stopped by here, explained it all and then croaked before we could ask him where he came from."
I just remembered the way the previous civs did Universal Suffrage - as a world wonder. That was so dumb, I'm glad they did away with that. "Sorry, this country was the first to discover universal suffrage, no benefit for you." So...the women in my civ can't vote, ever?
Call To Power had birth control (it was called something else) it was a world wonder that gave a huge happy bonus. Not sure how realistic this is - that's a complicated subject.
There was a world wonder on some mod I played...national press or something like that. Gave +10% EP and lowered war weariness all around the civ. Maybe photography could be required to make this as a national wonder? Or increase recon airborn missions?
Maybe there should be 'vague' exploration and 'clear' exploration. Because ships certainly move faster than they do in civ, but mapping is tough stuff, the British still weren't sure if there was a northern passage in the North of Canada in the mid 1800's. In any case, photograph would make air recon missions much clearer if this were used.
Sorry for rambling.
Disclaimer : I'm not really sure if any of the ideas expressed in this post are good.
Logistics could maybe give a small hammer bonus to harbors or maybe all cities?
Maybe maintenance costs from distance to capital should go down after nationalism... or radio...or both? One of the reasons the "big 3" networks (NBC, CBS, ABC) were not broken up by the FCC was that it created 'national hegemony' or something like that. At any rate I don't think, using the modern US as an example, Baltimore or Richmond, VA is paying a lot less maintenance costs than Seattle or Los Angeles, and the US is certainly not running State Property. Maybe a national wonder would be required to reflect this. Of course, comparing Civ to real life does get a bit silly.
Another thing - slightly off topic - should there be map clarity from merchants? As it is you can easily have trade routes to cities that are not on your map. Come on faithful merchants...help out our civ here, you obviously know how to get to Beijing, would you mind telling your immortal ruler where it is please? I also think it's hilarious when a religion is passively sent to a city before the civs even know where each other are. "So one day we started believing this religion. Don't know where it came from, but we didn't invent it. Some guy from some far off land stopped by here, explained it all and then croaked before we could ask him where he came from."
I just remembered the way the previous civs did Universal Suffrage - as a world wonder. That was so dumb, I'm glad they did away with that. "Sorry, this country was the first to discover universal suffrage, no benefit for you." So...the women in my civ can't vote, ever?
Call To Power had birth control (it was called something else) it was a world wonder that gave a huge happy bonus. Not sure how realistic this is - that's a complicated subject.
There was a world wonder on some mod I played...national press or something like that. Gave +10% EP and lowered war weariness all around the civ. Maybe photography could be required to make this as a national wonder? Or increase recon airborn missions?
Maybe there should be 'vague' exploration and 'clear' exploration. Because ships certainly move faster than they do in civ, but mapping is tough stuff, the British still weren't sure if there was a northern passage in the North of Canada in the mid 1800's. In any case, photograph would make air recon missions much clearer if this were used.
Sorry for rambling.
Disclaimer : I'm not really sure if any of the ideas expressed in this post are good.
My idea for Logistics did not originally boost production. What I wanted was a relatively cheap tech that enabled particular promotions, such as the "resupply" promotions of Medic and March, along with tsentom1's Field Medic, in the Classic Era. Also, I would probably make it required for Military Tradition or something like that.
The idea is, it's not necessary for a long while to advance the tech tree, and will only benefit you if you are a solid warmonger. Otherwise, you can put it off and acquire through trading later on, or self-research in a couple turns.
I think you may make a solid point on the merchants, but maybe not so on the religions. I remember reading that Buddhism made it to Greece in the early AD period along trade routes, but the Greeks only had a vague idea of what laid over in the East from the time of Alexander. Sure, they knew there were other people and kingdoms over there, but they didn't know the layout of roads, where all the strategic resources are, etc. Perhaps this is what is represented by getting a religion or knowing about cities through trade without specific knowledge of where they are. Sure, you know they exist...but don't have enough information to plan an extensive campaign around.
The idea is, it's not necessary for a long while to advance the tech tree, and will only benefit you if you are a solid warmonger. Otherwise, you can put it off and acquire through trading later on, or self-research in a couple turns.
I think you may make a solid point on the merchants, but maybe not so on the religions. I remember reading that Buddhism made it to Greece in the early AD period along trade routes, but the Greeks only had a vague idea of what laid over in the East from the time of Alexander. Sure, they knew there were other people and kingdoms over there, but they didn't know the layout of roads, where all the strategic resources are, etc. Perhaps this is what is represented by getting a religion or knowing about cities through trade without specific knowledge of where they are. Sure, you know they exist...but don't have enough information to plan an extensive campaign around.
champ82
Immortal Ruler
I wasn't trying to say that you were saying logistics should add hammers, I was adding on to it. I'm also not saying it would be a good idea, it was just a thought I had.
It occured to me I may have been wrong about the religion thing.
I like my idea of vauge and specific exploration. Not sure how it would be implemented though. I'm not saying it should replace Civ as we know it, but I would like to see it experimented with.
It occured to me I may have been wrong about the religion thing.
I like my idea of vauge and specific exploration. Not sure how it would be implemented though. I'm not saying it should replace Civ as we know it, but I would like to see it experimented with.
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