Some forgotten-but-important technologies

[UWHabs]

Ah, simple mistake.

The Civ model really doesn't allow for the vague and specific exploration, or even "forgetting" territory (because the player will remember even if your people haven't been there in 2000 years).

Maybe they should add a second layer to the fog of war? All units can go exploring, and you'll see the general lay of the land (borders, forests, water, plains, etc...). But to be able to discover resources, you need your units or scouts to actually sit on a square for a turn (to discover the terrain in the visible fog). This would take a turn to do for scouts, but explorers wouldn't have to (thus making explorers useful units).

Or even something like each tile has certain "exploration points" associated with it. So, something like a tile being visible by a unit gives it 1 point. A unit moving over the tile gives 2. A unit ending its turn on a tile gives 4. Scouts give double points. Explorers give 4X. You see the layout of each tile normally, but each resource has a certain number of points required (maybe even only after you discover the tech for the resource, since it doesn't make sense that your scout sitting in the desert for 5 turns in 3000BC will magically be able to tell you that there's oil on a square when you get to that point).

The problem with this is that it requires much more randomness (ie. getting lucky to settle a city by the copper), but it does mean that you would need to do a lot more exploration to actually map out the best sights.

 

[Phrossack]

What about glassworking? That was significant, but I'm not sure where it would fit or what it would do.

 

[Flying Pig]

Maybe it would be a requirement to build a cathedral?

 

[thungrim]

What about the most important technology of all?

BREWING!!

Eh lads?!

 

[Flying Pig]

That's been mentioned, I think. The winery can be built with monachy, but that's not quite the same thing.

 

[bestbrian]

That's been mentioned, I think. The winery can be built with monachy, but that's not quite the same thing.

Probably included in Agriculture or Pottery.

 

[Flying Pig]

And the lack of a barley/hops/potatoes (for the Russians) makes it of dubiouss use.

 

[Ian Kognitow]

It would be more about adding the potato--as it should--be a major resource in the game. Considering that last year was the "year of the potato", its significance should certainly not be lost. Perhaps, it could even somehow come on line later in the game (rather than via Calendar), such that it becomes a valuable latter-game food resource, which is otherwise lacking.

 

[bestbrian]

It would be more about adding the potato--as it should--be a major resource in the game. Considering that last year was the "year of the potato", its significance should certainly not be lost. Perhaps, it could even somehow come on line later in the game (rather than via Calendar), such that it becomes a valuable latter-game food resource, which is otherwise lacking.

Of all the calls and candidates for new resources to be added to the game, I always thought the Potato was the most glaring ommission. Those hearty little tubers helped change the world. And they're darn tasty.

 

[Flying Pig]

It would be more about adding the potato--as it should--be a major resource in the game. Considering that last year was the "year of the potato", its significance should certainly not be lost. Perhaps, it could even somehow come on line later in the game (rather than via Calendar), such that it becomes a valuable latter-game food resource, which is otherwise lacking.

As the Irish know, potatoes can be really important. But farms obviously farm something even off resources, so prehaps they farm potatoes (when did you last see a wild potato?)

 

[Ramesses]

As the Irish know, potatoes can be really important. But farms obviously farm something even off resources, so prehaps they farm potatoes (when did you last see a wild potato?)

5000 BC, perhaps?

 

[Flying Pig]

The game doesn't even go back that far. The point is, they are cultivated almost exclusively.

 

[Ramesses]

The game doesn't even go back that far. The point is, they are cultivated almost exclusively.

Well, the banana was first domesticated in 10000 BC, although it looked just a little bit different back then...

My point is, the potato may have very well been a wild vegetable which was domesticated well before the beginning of modern civilization (c. 4000 BC). If its agricultural history is indeed similar to that of the banana, then there's really no reason why it should have been excluded as a resource.

 

[Antilogic]

I have to say, I don't think I have ever seen a banana from 12 millenia ago before now.

Although, I should point out that modern bananas are nothing like the bananas even our grandfathers consumed. Most bananas in the world are derived from a single banana tree, and that phenotype is wiped out every so often by disease. Then, they pick the "next tastiest" banana tree and start using that one until it gets wiped out by disease, and so on.

 

[bestbrian]

I have to say, I don't think I have ever seen a banana from 12 millenia ago before now.

Although, I should point out that modern bananas are nothing like the bananas even our grandfathers consumed. Most bananas in the world are derived from a single banana tree, and that phenotype is wiped out every so often by disease. Then, they pick the "next tastiest" banana tree and start using that one until it gets wiped out by disease, and so on.

Heck, they're not even as tasty as the ones I had as a kid, let alone my grandfather. They're engineered now with thick peels to resist bruising during shipping, and this more durable banana is, unfortunately, also less delicious.

 

[Antilogic]

I'm hoping somebody has an old banana hidden away in a freezer somewhere, and we can map its genome and then clone that sucker. Then, we can revive the fruit's true greatness!

 

[Flying Pig]

Well, the banana was first domesticated in 10000 BC, although it looked just a little bit different back then...

My point is, the potato may have very well been a wild vegetable which was domesticated well before the beginning of modern civilization (c. 4000 BC). If its agricultural history is indeed similar to that of the banana, then there's really no reason why it should have been excluded as a resource.

Ok, maybe, but I still think that it is better represented as 'whatever the 'free' farms make'

 

[Blind Muse]

Science should be split into research (Technologies) and development (Inventions). Technologies, theories and concepts are researched. Physical items like tools or weapons are developed. This is hardly an original idea, but is something that hasn't been seen in Civilization (with the possible exception of prototype units in SMAC). It is also important to mention at this point that it is not always easy to determine which category something should be placed in (ie, the wheel - is it more of an invention or a concept?)

Commerce and multipliers would be split into the two categories - good balance would require someone more clever than myself to work out the mechanics. Also, a specialist for each of course – I would propose that the "Engineer" specialist increases Development, whilst a "Labourer" specialist takes the place of the current Engineer.

In the Horseback Riding / Stirrup example, a basic horseman unit could be enabled by HBR, but the stirrup requires Iron Working to develop, and enables Horse Archers and more advanced mounted units.

This kind of system would really complement the fabled Unit Builder

 

[Antilogic]

I don't think a unit builder is all that important for Civ. Unless we bring back the old attack and defense values, which I am 100% against.

 

[Flying Pig]

Science should be split into research (Technologies) and development (Inventions). Technologies, theories and concepts are researched. Physical items like tools or weapons are developed. This is hardly an original idea, but is something that hasn't been seen in Civilization (with the possible exception of prototype units in SMAC). It is also important to mention at this point that it is not always easy to determine which category something should be placed in (ie, the wheel - is it more of an invention or a concept?)

Commerce and multipliers would be split into the two categories - good balance would require someone more clever than myself to work out the mechanics. Also, a specialist for each of course – I would propose that the "Engineer" specialist increases Development, whilst a "Labourer" specialist takes the place of the current Engineer.

In the Horseback Riding / Stirrup example, a basic horseman unit could be enabled by HBR, but the stirrup requires Iron Working to develop, and enables Horse Archers and more advanced mounted units.

This kind of system would really complement the fabled Unit Builder

That is, in a way, represented; the spear is invented dring hunting, thecannon during steel; automatic weapons somewhere in industrialism. I don't reckon that you should be able to choose what you invent directly: there is at least scope for the imaginationthat the engines in their aeroplanes are like nothing we have ever seen; you can get nuclear-powered WWII transports