Some Stuff About Whip Overflow

[dankok8]

In the last couple of games, I've really started playing with and see the enormous power of whip overflow. I've always used it for units but I now I see how strong it is when rushing wonders. For example, playing a non-Expansive civ, I'll put 29 + into a Worker then 2 pop whip giving 29 of overflow. Now if I put that into the Pyramids and I have Stone it's amplified by 100% so I get 58 into the Pyramids. With Industrious it would be another 50% so 72 . Anyways is there a way to put even more overflow into the Mids? If I straight whipped a Worker with 0 invested it would be a 3-pop whip so then I get 30 overflow which becomes 60 with Stone. Can I get more than that in any way early in the game? I think I could 5-pop whip a fresh Settler for 50 overflow but that's probably not realistic.

 

[jmas]

Do you know there is a penalty for whipping with 0 invested?

I don't see how incurring the penalty could be worth it to get for ex. 2 more net into the mids.

Maybe you meant 1 invested?

 

[lymond]

Cold whipping anything incurs a penalty, so that should never happen unless emergency...or maybe gaming ending requirements.

If you have the food, settlers are often the better option to setup for 3poppers at 39H production. Whipping workers though can be good if you actually need them to help finish out chops. Timings of things can work well too, and if you have alpha or currency you can store the OF hammers (and chops) if you are waiting for bonuses to arrive.

Also, note that your OF may be more than just the expected whip OF based on the base hammers and/or food of the city the turn of whip, so make sure you are working the best tiles.

edit: well 1H would mean 2pop worker anyway. only reason it is a 3pop is due to the cold whip penalty.
Not even sure what that would come out to be in terms of OF as I've never 3popped a worker, but I except it would not be very good.

 

[sampsa]

Yeh, no idea what you mean with "I think I could 5-pop whip a fresh Settler for 50 overflow ". Whipping a single item can only generate 29 overflow plus the generated that turn.

The best thing you can do is stack some overflow. Say you put close to 30 into a worker and under 10 into a settler (or under 40, often more realistic). 2-pop whip worker, next turn start building nothing. When size 8, 4-pop whip settler (worker OF comes in now too). Then you have +60 overflow that you can keep on storing by building nothing (waiting for stone for example). Really, this "build nothing" trick is probably more important than "wonder bread" for a player playing normal settings.

 

[lymond]

hey sampsa - what is the actually cold whip penalty? ....I always forget.

 

[sampsa]

hey sampsa - what is the actually cold whip penalty? ....I always forget.

I think it's +50% cost? So 20 per pop. Thus, cold-whipping a settler for 5 pop produces no overflow.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

How do you build nothing? Don't you HAVE to queue up something?

 

[Tonny]

Build research or wealth.
This way you can save the overflow.

 

[dankok8]

Yeh, no idea what you mean with "I think I could 5-pop whip a fresh Settler for 50 overflow ". Whipping a single item can only generate 29 overflow plus the generated that turn.

The best thing you can do is stack some overflow. Say you put close to 30 into a worker and under 10 into a settler (or under 40, often more realistic). 2-pop whip worker, next turn start building nothing. When size 8, 4-pop whip settler (worker OF comes in now too). Then you have +60 overflow that you can keep on storing by building nothing (waiting for stone for example). Really, this "build nothing" trick is probably more important than "wonder bread" for a player playing normal settings.

Yea what I meant is stacking OF. So Worker --> Settler --> Mids is the best way? Does it improve with Exp or Imp?

How do you build nothing in the queue? The game doesn't allow me. I have to select something. After Alpha, I can build Research and store OF but how do I do it before? You did it in the Izzy game you were helping me and I don't know how.

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

Yea what I meant is stacking OF. So Worker --> Settler --> Mids is the best way? Does it improve with Exp or Imp?

How do you build nothing in the queue? The game doesn't allow me. I have to select something. After Alpha, I can build Research and store OF but how do I do it before? You did it in the Izzy game you were helping me and I don't know how.

I guess I haven't tried this before, but wouldn't your overflow just turn into beakers (or commerce if building wealth)? I mean, you're building research or wealth, which to me just means turning all hammers into beakers or commerce.

 

[AcaMetis]

I guess I haven't tried this before, but wouldn't your overflow just turn into beakers (or commerce if building wealth)? I mean, you're building research or wealth, which to me just means turning all hammers into beakers or commerce.

Logically it should, but for whatever reason the game completely ignores any overflow when you set a city to build wealth/research/culture. Maybe it's so that you can't convert forests/population into beakers/research/culture, but if not I've got no idea.

 

[Tonny]

How do you build nothing in the queue? The game doesn't allow me. I have to select something. After Alpha, I can build Research and store OF but how do I do it before?

Before Alpha/Currency you can store the overflow by following these steps:
1. whip the current build
2. select another build on the same turn, thus not finishing the whipped build
3. put the whipped build on top of the queue 1 turn before the build you want to put the OF in
4. OF goes into the build you want it to have into

 

[Nick723]

Yea what I meant is stacking OF. So Worker --> Settler --> Mids is the best way? Does it improve with Exp or Imp?

How do you build nothing in the queue? The game doesn't allow me. I have to select something. After Alpha, I can build Research and store OF but how do I do it before? You did it in the Izzy game you were helping me and I don't know how.

When the city screen is open, press the ‘1’ key. Not sure if this intended or not, could be considered cheating?

You also have to do it every turn so not that practical to do for more than a couple of turns (not to mention you would lose multiple turns of hammers)!

I should add - this is most useful when the thing you want to overflow into is not something you can build yet (e.g. library, about to discover writing soon).

 

[dankok8]

Logically it should, but for whatever reason the game completely ignores any overflow when you set a city to build wealth/research/culture. Maybe it's so that you can't convert forests/population into beakers/research/culture, but if not I've got no idea.

Well yea it's that way for balance reasons. If you could chop forests or whip for Wealth that would be OP to the extreme IMO. I think unrealistic as well.

Before Alpha/Currency you can store the overflow by following these steps:
1. whip the current build
2. select another build on the same turn, thus not finishing the whipped build
3. put the whipped build on top of the queue 1 turn before the build you want to put the OF in
4. OF goes into the build you want it to have into

This is fantastic stuff. Never thought of it!

So really you're just waiting for an already whipped item to come out on the turn that you build nothing.

When the city screen is open, press the ‘1’ key. Not sure if this intended or not, could be considered cheating?

You also have to do it every turn so not that practical to do for more than a couple of turns (not to mention you would lose multiple turns of hammers)!

I should add - this is most useful when the thing you want to overflow into is not something you can build yet (e.g. library, about to discover writing soon).

Or maybe you can build Pyramids already but want to wait to hook up Stone first? That way you get +100% multiplier.

 

[lymond]

Does it improve with Exp or Imp?
.

EXP and IMP just means you have to understand the difference in production on worker and settler in order to 2 or 3 pop them, respectively, if you are trying to max OF.

 

[dankok8]

EXP and IMP just means you have to understand the difference in production on worker and settler in order to 2 or 3 pop them, respectively, if you are trying to max OF.

Yes. So the advantage of those is you can sometimes whip sooner or for fewer pop (in case of IMP Settlers) but you can't really increase OF.

 

[Jarno]

Before Alpha/Currency you can store the overflow by following these steps:
1. whip the current build
2. select another build on the same turn, thus not finishing the whipped build
3. put the whipped build on top of the queue 1 turn before the build you want to put the OF in
4. OF goes into the build you want it to have into

If I recall correctly, this can even be extorted by whip chaining right? So apply the above to multiple units/buildings and add them in the queue X turns (where X = number of pre-whipped items) before you want to build the thing you want to put the overflow in. Note that the number of OF hammers is capped by the build cost of an item (i.e. a worker can never generate more than 60 hammers OF). Therefore, place the pre-whipped items in your queue from cheap -> expensive.

 

[Tonny]

You're absolutely right @Jarno

 

[sampsa]

Sorry, wasn't online for a quick answer, but @Nick723 mentioned what I had in mind. With alpha/currency you can store overflow by building /, but you can build nothing before that by pressing for example "1" in the city screen. Yes, you lose the you are producing but most often that is only 1-2 pt.