The happiness problem in early industrial era has ruined the game for me. Feels like a broken mechanic. Happiness falls off a cliff and there's no way even of knowing how to make people happy! Haven't finished a game in months.
documental
Chieftain
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- May 3, 2017
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- 66
Has anybody had a game where you and the other snowball have 30+ happiness, while the rest have 20 or so? This was medieval era. The only one who wasn't was Theodora, who as far I can tell performs poorly pretty consistently, and in this particular instance had a whole continent to themselves yet somehow was actually the last to find a religion.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
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- 774
Look at this (Immortal difficulty):
China has lost actually every single city around it's capital to defection. Hilarious, isn't it?
China has lost actually every single city around it's capital to defection. Hilarious, isn't it?
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- Jan 4, 2018
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You are the runaway civ.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
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- Apr 10, 2003
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- 774
I surely am, but should civs that are not runaway civs be crippled by unhappyness so badly that their core cities defect?
Moi Magnus
Emperor
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- Mar 1, 2015
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I think that's why there is an incoming change to the way tech is taken in account for happiness.
If there is a runaway, the catch-up mecanism will make you research tech too quickly compared to your production.
(Though the real problem may be that there is no catch up mecanism for production?)
BiteInTheMark
Deity
"Now uses a tech median value, instead of player tech value"
Yeah, this will hit runaway nations. But isnt this an additional rubberbanding mechanic, some people dont want? Cant imagine in which hell you get pushed, playing as korea.....
"Pop scaler increased, now scales off of # of cities as well".....
I dont understand, does this mean, you get more or less unhappiness by more cities? If you get more unhappiness, isnt this an even more rubberbanding mechanic and anti wide play?
Can you remembe which changes were made between christmas and around february? A lot of flat food was removed from buildings, the food consumption from specialists increased, the costs of buildings increased, additional buildings as core buildings introduced. To which conclusion do you come? The cities are definitly smaller. And its additionally now a core strategy to slow your growth, cause else you would get punished by unhappines. The less production from your cities and the increased cost of buildings lead to a shift in the ability to stay up to date in infrastructure. If we see it as legit to use much smaller cities, the production cost should be adusted down a bit to make it possible to have atleast a chance to build the most necessary buildings. Else we will see a big difference in happiness (AI) and unhappiness (human) still in the future.
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Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
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- 2,387
Suggestion - release the patch. That will stop conjecture on how your new happiness system works as people will be busy testing it.
I will, when it is ready. I'd rather not release something that will add fuel to the fire.
G
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
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- Jun 10, 2013
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- 2,387
You can just make it a beta though. I think the outcomes you will get from simulated environment which contains only AIs (with equal bonuses?) will be different than if a player without such bonuses is introduced so there's no point delaying, it's unlikely everyone will be pleased. I don't see the point but of course do as you wish, you're the architecture of this mod, after all.
Spoiler :
It will be a beta when it launches, however I'm still fine-tuning the algorithms to get the AI in a good spot. I've also been profoundly busy with other stuff, this being the end of the school year round these parts.
G
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- Jan 4, 2018
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Better to wait it out till it's ready. I remember John Carmack's response to people about game release during his time with ID software, "done when it’s done."
I agree, happiness spirals are too rage Inducing, I don’t want to test it out unless we are pretty sure it’s looking good
Txurce
Deity
Yes. Besides, taking a break from the game makes me feel unusually responsible.
tu_79
Deity
It may be the low difficulty I'm playing (King), but I'm currently at 70 happiness in turn 350, without any happiness enhancing religious tenets or policies. The other civ with an ideology has also 30 happiness. Playing latest release.
Favorius
I am not a Chief!
Vox Populi : Family Planning Edition 
Dare to untick stop growth box.
Dare to untick stop growth box.
alh_p
Chieftain
Kind of, yeah. I found this change initially difficult but my strategy (also not at harder levels than king!) is now just not to grow my pop that high. I'm assuming that limiting pop growth reduces your exposure to the risk of larger swings in happiness. While still aiming to be world leader in tech/infra, this has made my last couple of games more inured to the change. I might be frightfully ill-informed but it worked for me...
My sense is that the worst situation to be in is the player with the biggest pop and lowest levels of infrastructure. Or perhaps that, plus a high tech/infra imbalance (i.e. unbuilt but researched buildings).
The changes have made me rethink my approach to VP but frankly (having adjusted ok) I am happy about it - change is good and this mod still keeps me on my toes (at king...
)
BiteInTheMark
Deity
Cant tell you exactly why, but emperor feels like an other planet. I dunno if its the extra worker at start, or the handicap breaks a magic barrier. It gets a lot harder.Kind of, yeah. I found this change initially difficult but my strategy (also not at harder levels than king!) is now just not to grow my pop that high. I'm assuming that limiting pop growth reduces your exposure to the risk of larger swings in happiness. While still aiming to be world leader in tech/infra, this has made my last couple of games more inured to the change. I might be frightfully ill-informed but it worked for me...
My sense is that the worst situation to be in is the player with the biggest pop and lowest levels of infrastructure. Or perhaps that, plus a high tech/infra imbalance (i.e. unbuilt but researched buildings).
The changes have made me rethink my approach to VP but frankly (having adjusted ok) I am happy about it - change is good and this mod still keeps me on my toes (at king...
King feels relative easy and is the last difficulty, where you can play casual. While in emperor, the handicap is high enough for the AI to let them build everything they want and then push the tech/culture/needs artificially by culture and science process. Ive done some testruns and from around turn 150 on, they are using constantly the culture/science process. Even they are tech leader, unlocking new things fast and are at war and losing units.....
Moi Magnus
Emperor
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- Mar 1, 2015
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- 1,868
@Gazebo, is the use of culture and science process also frequent in your test games? It does not feel right if the AI convert its bonus to production into culture or science because it has nothing else to do with its production.
@BiteInTheMark, If you have test time, you can maybe make a game where you deleted from existence all the process, to see if needs are more reasonnable without, or if this issue is unrelated to happiness.
I think you just need to add the following code at the end of Projects.sql:
DELETE FROM Processes
WHERE Type = 'PROCESS_CULTURE' OR Type = 'PROCESS_SCIENCE' OR Type = 'PROCESS_FOOD' OR Type = 'PROCESS_GOLD' OR Type = 'PROCESS_DEFENSE';
DELETE FROM Process_Flavors
WHERE ProcessType = 'PROCESS_CULTURE' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_SCIENCE' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_FOOD' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_GOLD' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_DEFENSE';
DELETE FROM Process_ProductionYield
WHERE ProcessType = 'PROCESS_CULTURE' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_SCIENCE' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_FOOD' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_GOLD' OR ProcessType = 'PROCESS_DEFENSE';
