SP1 - Always War, with extra restrictions

[Sirp]

This is my first attempt at a Succession Game. It uses an even harsher version of the Always War variant devised by Arathorn.

Essentially, the rules are this:

- Monarch level, Pangea map, standard, max opponents.
- Anytime we see the unit of another Civilization, we meet with their leader, and immediately declare war. No negotiations at all; you're not allowed to even look at the bargaining table screen. After this, we never enter into diplomacy with them, and always refuse requests for an audience.
- Since Always War games seem to rely heavily on Great Leaders, we are restricted in that we can't build the Heroic Epic.

This one will be tough, but winnable, I think. There'll be the normal 24/48 hour acknowledgement/turn done rules.

So, whose in?

1. Sirp
2. meldor
3. Maple (?)
4. juliennew
5. Gunning1

More people may be welcome, depending upon participation of current members, ask if you want to join. Well, we might be able to fit one more person in, if they really wanted to play. Once this game starts, we want to keep it moving, so the 24/48 hour rule will be pretty strict. If you don't post "got it" within 24 hours, you will be skipped.

 

[meldor]

I will give it a go, have played one of this type yet.

 

[Sirp]

ok, you're in meldor, this will be gruelling, but hopefully alot of fun; who else wants to join?

 

[T-hawk]

Which civilization are you playing? Germany is by far the most popular choice for Always War.

If you pick a non-militaristic civilization, you'll get fewer GLs, if that's what you want.

 

[Sirp]

I haven't made a final choice on who we'll play; but Persia is a likely possibility. Why? They're not militaristic, yet they do have other good advantages for Always War - two very useful attributes, and a good Unique Unit.

 

[LKendter]

I am NOT playing.
However, I will offer a piece of info. From playing LK21 and LK22 always war - non-military is much harder.

LK21 - always had some leaders.
LK22 - suffered from a lot of leader droughts.

Expansionist actually sucked as an attribute.
Relgious was good - cheap temples = faster to domination.


If you want the ultimate challenge - Greece - Defensive UU and crappy attributes.

Alternate - America, game will be decided long be UU matters.
No cheap culture buildings.

 

[Maple]

I'll join, but if Killer says I'm in his game first, than I'll have to leave. But so far I think Killer's game is full. So count me in!

 

[Juliennew]

Count me in if there any room avalaible.

 

[Sirp]

ok Maple, and juliennew, you're in. We can probably take one more player, but 4 is fine as well.

The aim of the game is to win on Always War without relying heavily on Great Leaders, and having very little knowledge about our opponents, other than what we gather ourselves. We consider all other Civilizations to be complete scum, and refuse to talk to them; except to notify them that they are going to die. We also don't carry out intelligence operations on them; why would we have to when we are so confident of our superiority anyway

The game probably won't start until the new patch is available, and everyone who wants to play will have to patch.

 

[Maple]

Cool! Thanks

I was going to say we should wait for the patch, but

 

[gunning1]

I'll play. Succession games are fun.

 

[Sirp]

ok gunning1, you're in!

So, what Civilization does everyone want to play? We should play the best non-militaristic Civ we can think of. Scientific is probably a must, since we have to do all research ourselves. Contenders are:

- Persia - nice unique unit (but doesn't upgrade), scientific, and industrious is always good.
- Babylon - reasonable unique unit, with ok upgrades, scientific - religious is about as good as industrious
- Iroquois - ok, they aren't scientific, but they are religious which is great, and their unique unit is very very nice. Expansionistic is considered bad in Always War, but remember, we can't trade world maps, so scouts might be good for intel gathering.
- Greece - they are scientific, and they have a good unique unit for Always War, but their commercial attribute is mediocre.
- Egypt - not scientific, but has a kinda ok unique unit (basically cheap horsemen), and industrious and religious are good attributes.

(hmm...I wonder if there is any chance that the patch will make commercial better; I'm really looking forward to cheap marketplaces and banks

ok, I think that's it for potential Civs for us to be. Not having cheap barracks will be tough. We will want to designate a few cities as being "military cities" early on and build barracks in them, while the other cities concentrate on infrastructure for a while.

Lots of people like avoiding contact for as long as possible in Always War. I think we should try to make contact with as many civs as we can pretty fast. Why? Well there is the science thing, but more importantly, as soon as we declare war on them, they will drastically cut infrastructure development, and start building troops. The sooner they stop developing infrastructure, the quicker our economy can start to compete and dominate.

ok, before the game starts, we can have some discussion of strategy...

 

[gunning1]

I think we should either be Persia, because of their Immortals, or Babylon just because.

 

[meldor]

What about the forgotten French? They would be good, although their UU bites.......

 

[Sirp]

The French would be a challenge to play I think. They are industrious, which is nice, but commercial is only marginally useful, as is their unique unit (I used to think their unique unit was completely useless, but I have upgraded this assessment to marginally useful).

Persia is sounding good, although I must admit the main reason I wouldn't want to play them, is that I get tired of hearing how good immortals are from so many people

But yeah sure, Persia could be nice. They are probably the best choice of non-militaristic civs for an Always War game.

Then again, we could just throw it to chance and let the game pick a civ for as at random

 

[Juliennew]

I think the industrious trait is indispensable. I would vote for France for the challenge and a bit for chauvinism too

 

[Sirp]

eek! The French? But the Persians are industrious too! Well I'm going to put down the Persians as my vote, but if everyone else wants the frogs, then so be it.

And forget about making it *more* challenging. It's already going to be mighty challenging enough - Monarch level, no intelligence, no trading at all, minimal great leader support, max opponents. It's going to be a tough one already guys, don't make it harder for us!

 

[Dutchgael]

With a friend of mine I played a succession game with:
* always war
* immediately declare war (no negotiations at all)
*regent
*Japanese
*victory options: conquest&cultural

We won by conquest in about 2030AD. OK, it was on regent

Because of the no-negotiation-at-all-rule and because the AI built Great Library first, we were behind on tech for most of the game. Another difficulty is that you can't get a good map (no trading possible). Until we got CIA, and STOLE the map.

We had a lot of GL's (although very little in the beginning). Most of 'em became Armies, because AI's were ahead in tech and those on the other continent built most of the wonders first.

If you play this on monarch, without Heroic Epic and with a non-militaristic civ, it might get very difficult.

 

[Maple]

I think we should use China. Militaristic because of leaders and quick promotion, and industrious because it is invauable. The UU is useful, fast knight.

If not China, than my vote is Egypt.

 

[Sirp]

One of the ideas is that we will *not* have the benefit of many great leaders, so we will not be a militaristic civ (and not be able to build the heroic epic). This means we will only have a few great leaders; and this is one of the main ideas of the game - to win without the benefit of lots of great leaders.

I think that Egypt vs Persia is a fairly close call; it comes down to war chariot vs immortal, and religious vs scientific. I tend to think that it will be *very* hard to keep up scientifically if we're not a scientific civ. Being religious will be of great benefit only as long as we can't secure enough luxuries to keep our people happy; but being scientific will always help. The immortal vs war chariot thing is surprisingly close, mainly because in Always War, at least in my experience, fast moving units are far more important than slow moving units. The lack of upgrade for immortals is very bad; although with 4 attack, they don't really become obsolete until the advent of cavalry.

Anyhow, it seems everyone wants to go with a different civ, so we might have to settle it by just making the choice random; then we'll pick up someone like the English and really be in for it