Space-1: War While Waiting

Do cavalry attack cavalry armies? If not, then is there really a point to building riflemen armies over cavalry armies for pillaging purposes? Cavalry armies will be able to pillage more with their higher movement.

When tanks are around it will make a difference and riflemen armies are good for defense, but we may be able to wait on them.

Also we need to worry about shipping the armies over to the other continent. If we fill them with 4 units ahead of time they may not fit into the ships. We may need to finish filling them when they land.
 
Originally posted by Greebley
Do cavalry attack cavalry armies? If not, then is there really a point to building riflemen armies over cavalry armies for pillaging purposes? Cavalry armies will be able to pillage more with their higher movement.

I can’t say for sure since I’ve never built a cavalry army. I doubt cavalry would attack a cavalry army, but that’s just an opinion. I’ve only seen the AI attack an army after it has first been hit with artillery or bombers to weaken it to about 50% strength. That’s another reason to send rifle armies (not wait for infantry) to the new continent ASAP, to get pillaging started before flight comes in.

Building a cavalry army to pillage is not a bad idea, but since we cannot shuffle units into & out of an army, I’d go with rifles as they have a longer useful life.

Explorers are the best pillaging option
What we ultimately want is an army paired with 8 explorers (or more than 8 in case a wrong click leaves one exposed). If you pair 8 explorers with a rifle army, you can pillage 4 railroaded tiles per turn. Pillaging railroad tiles takes 2 turns, 1 for the rails, 1 for the roads & mine / irrigation. Even better, explorers treat all tiles the same for movement, so you can pillage 4 railroaded, mined mountain tiles on the same turn. That’s a lot of shields for the AI to lose in a single turn. When you pillage with an explorer, make sure you pillage a tile contiguous to the tile where the ARMY will end it’s turn. After an explorer pillages, he can only move 1 tile, and that move needs to be to the protection of the tile where the ARMY is.

The hard part of all this will be the ocean crossing. Once we get a rifle army with 8 explorers on the other continent, the AI shield count will take huge hits.

I’ve never pillaged another continent before I had a city on that continent. That way the AI is always attacking my city, and ignores the ARMY. I’m not sure what the AI would do if there is only an ARMY on their continent. They may attack the ARMY for lack of any alternative targets. :confused:
 
I think we should try a cavalry army (rifle army too). If the AI doesn't attack it, then it is safe until tanks as far as I recall. But this may be exactly the same time the rifles may become obsolete. The attack jumps from 6 to 16. So if strength 6 doesn't attack a defense 3 and a 16 will attack a strength 6, then their life-time is similar (the rifles might be safe on mountains and hills). Meanwhile the cavalry army pillages faster.

On the other hand if the AI does go after an army because there is nothing else to hit, the rifle will defintely win out. So we can try both.

The cavalry army will alway be useful to take out cities even if the pillaging fails. I love cav armies in my normal games. You can take out that high hitpoint rifleman (an elite one for example) while a regular cavalry may just injure it causing it to no longer be on top and heal up next turn.
 
Originally posted by handy900
I've never pillaged another continent before I had a city on that continent. That way the AI is always attacking my city, and ignores the ARMY. I'm not sure what the AI would do if there is only an ARMY on their continent. They may attack the ARMY for lack of any alternative targets. :confused:
Have a look at TJ01: Famous Five where we are playing a 5CC 100K victory target. We have an Cav army pillaging on one of the other continents and IIRC it has only lost HP attacking cities and has never been attacked :)


Ted
 
Sweet dreams :D


Ted
 
Can't finish my turns tonight. I've played 5 or 6.
Because of the jungle and mountains I haven't made much progress I'm afraid as I am roading jungle and mountains like mad to be able to move the canon. The bait city is working well, and we have Smiths. We can research in 4 turns and still make 110gpt net income. I'll finish off tomorrow.
 
Suunds like you deserve an early night MB :)

Good news on the 4 turn research :thumbsup: All that infrastructure's finally paying off :D


Ted
 
Originally posted by TedJackson
...We have an Cav army pillaging on one of the other continents and IIRC it has only lost HP attacking cities and has never been attacked :) Ted

Thanks Ted, you are a fountain of good humor and useful information. :)

Since you are the answer man today, here is another one:

In C3C are you allowed to upgrade units within an army? I've always thought you should be able to do this.
 
I haven't tried... yet! :D

I agree that it would seem to be a sensible option as long as there was a mechanism in place to force/encourage the AI to upgrade their armies


Ted
 
I don't know. At least humans are smart enough to disband their obsolete armies :)


Ted
 
1325AD: Pre-turn
Killed the MDI with the army, and then another just because I could.
Elite Cav vs redlined MDI wins.
IBT:
Spanish start smiths
Massive barb uprising. Ooh we are behind in tech.
Some attacks, but nothing much.

1330AD:
Knight army kills MDI
Cavalry army kills 2 bab cav.
vet cav kills vet cav
Bombard then kill bab musket with longbow capturing settler.
Do the same to another musket
cav kills musket.
longbow kills MDI
cav kills MDI
There are a couple of straggling enemy units around but I can't get to them. We need more units to start attacking I feel.

IBT:
16 barbs attack Hareid. They all die, though one did take 3HP off a fortified Elite musket in a walled town.

Learn Economics, research physics

1335AD: Hurry Smiths.
I think I'll stop listing every single battle, and just be a little more descriptive.

Northerns ambition has attracted some attention. The Spanish and Babs are going for it.
I'm trying to road some jungle into Babylon for the canon.
We can research in 4 turns and make 89gpt net without Smiths.

IBT:
We get Smiths. Massive cascade ending in Ottomans getting Newtons.
A cavalry gets killed IBT. The first loss this round.

1340AD:
I hurry a couple of settlers and regroup the troops to try to push back our line a little. Still feel short of units. The cavalry/knight army is being completely ignored by the bab cavalry and is pillaging with impunity, as is the spear army. I have run tests with this before. I have never been able to get the AI to attack one of my armies unless it posesses an army itself. Then it will atack and with a variety of units. This is only anecdotal from half a dozen maps though.

IBT:
Spanish complete Bachs. That'll come in handy.
The cascade leads to the Greeks getting Magellans.

1345AD:
A very quiet turn, but probably important. Lots of troop and worker movement, but only 3 or 4 attacks with no losses.The Spanish dropped a spear off in ex-scandanavia, but it died.

IBT:
Wow. The AI lurve Northerns Ambition. Maybe it's because I've got 9 workers roading the mountain. No losses. No leaders either.

1350AD:
I'm getting concerned about my lack of progress. All the infrastructure builds means we are light on units, and I am facing riflemen now. Also we lack workers and roading the jungle takes time.

IBT:
Egyptians want to talk. No
Several attacks, we win them all, though a few cavalry are redlined.
Learn Physics research magnetism in 4

Nicomedia library - Musket
Grand River library - worker
Allegheny market - cavalry
Pike-honorum walls - worker

1355AD:
Finally get roads done to the frontline. What now?
Its Either Uruk or Akkad.

IBT:
The Greeks want an audience. No
We lose an Elite cav fortified on a mountain. Perhaps the risk of this kind of loss is not as low as I imagined. We win the other couple of battles.

Hispalis musket - market
Syracuse caravel - caravel
Palmyra uni - cavalry

1360AD:
At last I get the city on the hill.
Found Londinium - walls

IBT:
We los a vet cav. I am building muskets to protect them honest.
Spanish request an audience.
Rome bank - cavalry
Cumae uni - cavalry

1365AD:
Lots of battles and I generate a leader.

IBT:
Lose a musket in Northern ambition, which I suddenly realise is our most southerly town.

Veii cavalry - cavalry
Tarentum library - court

1370AD:
Fairly quiet. Switched Brundisium to cav and hurried. Will put military academy in it next turn.

IBT:
Sneaky Egyptians attack with a cav they landed under the fog of war. Nice play :thumbsup: to the AI. Didn't work though.

Lost yet another cav on the mountain SW of northern ambition. When I finish I'll say a bit about this.
Pisae library - duct
Ravenna cavalry - cavalry
Brundisium cavalry - Military academy.
Jerusalem Aqueduct - Musket
Egyptians build a city amongst us

1375AD:
I put a city in near the Egyptian city.
Generate another leader with a knight which I upgrade to cav on the same turn.


End turn notes.
This was a poor set of turns. My excuse is that we were a bit heavy on the infrastructure builds and so I didn't have enough units to press an attack against rifles.
A fortress will complete on the hill west of Londinium at which point the Western flank will be secure.
The thing that needs to change is Northens ambition.
The road that is circled on the mountain must be pillaged post haste. The Babylonians are putting cav on there from where they can attack the city or workers and just generally pose a threat. If you bombard them down to one hp and take them out with cav, the next turn they just turn up with cav and kill our unit. It's a bad situation, but I didn't work out what was going on until the second time it happened.

Since we can run 4 turn research I think we should. I see no reason to take navigation yet, I would just go steam and then on to scientific method.

We have a leader which I see little reason to save. May as well build a cav army. Two cav armies a knight army and a dozen canon in a stack with other units should be able to take out the Babs fairly quickly.

Remember there is an Egyptian city on our western coast.

Here is where the action is.

sp1e.jpg


Here is the >>baton<<
 
Originally posted by mad-bax
... in Northern ambition, which I suddenly realise is our most southerly town.

Don't you just love the irony? :lol: It'll almost be a shame to take any of the more southern Bab towns. Almost. :)

Looking good, not bad turns at all. :goodjob:

Ted, the baton is yours to pick up.
 
Got it

I'm up in MB4 so I'll post a can/can't do tomorrow lunchtime :)

Good stuff MB :thumbsup:


Ted
 
The sooner we start pillaging the other Continent the better.

Once we start wrecking the AI to AI deals and cutting off luxuries and strategic resources then we need not worry so much about being behind in tech or invasion fleets.

We should probably stabilise our position on the home continent and use the Babylonians and Spanish units to generate leaders to create armies to send overseas. Only taking cities when we need them to increase the number of armies we can maintain :)


Ted
 
Handy,
We don't need Navigation to get to the other continent. We already will have Magnetism so we can cross oceans with no troubles.

I think we would only want Nav for the explorers which aren't as High a priorty. They can help with pillaging, but I would prefer Hoover, and factories. Cavalry are almost as good as explorers.

[edit: I only know this because I thought we needed Nav in another game until the above fact was pointed out to me :D ]
 
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