LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,500
Spain has moved to the "top of the top" in my book with the addition of ship purchasing.
Spain
- Thread starter void_genesis
- Start date
Gokudo01
Emperor
I think she is great, i love spain even more now. The AI still struggles with it but I think it's fine, I saw some above average game from Spain AI
One thing about Spain is she is so much stronger on good starts than bad. If you start in like plains with wheat and coffee, those 2 extra citizens you start with only pull 1 hammer each (b
because they eat 2 food each). But if you start on a luxury with culture you can just go nuts.
because they eat 2 food each). But if you start on a luxury with culture you can just go nuts.
CrabHelmet
King
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2017
- Messages
- 732
I feel like Spain is strong without being broken, and has a really fun and distinct method of play. Would not want any changes. Don't think there's a single egregious Civ now except maybe Carthage.
Just started my first game on the new patch with spain. My suggestion is to remove the+
bonus on foudning your capital, can't be right to start at 3
with 60/75
Y.O.
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 113
Just started my first game on the new patch with spain. My suggestion is to remove the
I don't see why we should go back to spain before when she didn't get bonus from the capital?
I'd ditch the food on the capital as well, it makes it so Spain is really strong even if you don't play into her uniques at all. I never thought about details other players have mentioned, like how you avoid unhappiness from religious divisions. I just start strong and roll over the competition
Y.O.
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 113
But wasn't the point of the change to make sure Spain gets a religion, and the AI had a harder time before the change? I'm not against reverting it back, and you all are all the pro players, so when the lot of you all say something, I listen, but I just wouldn't walk back the change without really confirming if it's necessary. Of course my bias for Spain is on full display, and I may not be considering how much of a difference maker it is with the changes to growth.
You could keep the 40 faith on your capital and only lose the food.
CrabHelmet
King
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2017
- Messages
- 732
If we have to do something about Spain (and I don't think we do), then I'd rather just scale the amount down slightly, rather than take it off the capital. Her different start is unique and fun and shouldn't be made to play differently.
Gokudo01
Emperor
NoJust started my first game on the new patch with spain. My suggestion is to remove the
ElliotS
Warmonger
I'm not for nerfing Spain. They literally never come up in the discussion of best/terrifying civs. That's a pretty good indicator they're not OP.
tu_79
Deity
¡Dejad España en paz! ¡Pardiez!
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,502
Probablemente Dios os perdone. Pero yo no. ¡Preparaos para la guerra!
I'd like to reiterate CrazyG concerns about Spain's UA: food on capital founding can snowball pretty fast with the right terrain and luxuries, a turn 3 pop 3 Madrid working 3 good tiles (culture/science/production) makes the early game a joke.
It's a player-friendly UA (AI capital already grows pretty fast at higher difficulties, and terrain is less important for them due to handicap boni) and also strikes me as conceptually wrong due to Spain never been a fast growing/high populated area, at least not compared to other (partially) food-based UAs from India or China.
Don't get me wrong, I like this part of the UA and its synergy with a rush-faith-bought Mission in later cities, also Spain needs ''something'' to survive the early game and become a religious power later, but I feel early growth gives them too much snowballing potential, more than other ancient-focused civs. Trait_YieldFromSettle could be limited to Faith, or even removed altogether now that there's less competition for one of the last religions. 40 Faith is 'almost' a free pantheon and steps on Gandhi's bare feet.
''Reconquista'' trait sounds more focused about Trait_YieldFromConquest than from settling new cities anyway; I suppose the idea behind giving a bonus to the latter comes from the New World colonization theme instead, but we already have the Conquistador for that. As a side note, a good compensation for a spanish settling nerf would be giving the Conquistador the ''Ocean Explorer'' promotion: being able to find new continents in the Medieval Age might let the UU find some unsettled land to use its iconic ability (by the time Astronomy unlocks other continents are always filled on standard settings) and we have some historic excuse to let Spain be able to discover new civs that early.
Edit: Spain could lose its Costal bias, Madrid should be inland, at least most of the time
Not that we need a mostly coastal empire to churn out a big fleet with faith-bought ships anyway.
It's a player-friendly UA (AI capital already grows pretty fast at higher difficulties, and terrain is less important for them due to handicap boni) and also strikes me as conceptually wrong due to Spain never been a fast growing/high populated area, at least not compared to other (partially) food-based UAs from India or China.
Don't get me wrong, I like this part of the UA and its synergy with a rush-faith-bought Mission in later cities, also Spain needs ''something'' to survive the early game and become a religious power later, but I feel early growth gives them too much snowballing potential, more than other ancient-focused civs. Trait_YieldFromSettle could be limited to Faith, or even removed altogether now that there's less competition for one of the last religions. 40 Faith is 'almost' a free pantheon and steps on Gandhi's bare feet.
''Reconquista'' trait sounds more focused about Trait_YieldFromConquest than from settling new cities anyway; I suppose the idea behind giving a bonus to the latter comes from the New World colonization theme instead, but we already have the Conquistador for that. As a side note, a good compensation for a spanish settling nerf would be giving the Conquistador the ''Ocean Explorer'' promotion: being able to find new continents in the Medieval Age might let the UU find some unsettled land to use its iconic ability (by the time Astronomy unlocks other continents are always filled on standard settings) and we have some historic excuse to let Spain be able to discover new civs that early.
Edit: Spain could lose its Costal bias, Madrid should be inland, at least most of the time
Not that we need a mostly coastal empire to churn out a big fleet with faith-bought ships anyway.
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