[Speculation] Reformation Beliefs

[CommunistCookie]

Yes I am not an American but I do have a vague idea about what happened there. Something like people started making their wine locally after the ban & there were complications related to it.

Anyway the reason for failure wasn't that banning it is impossible, rather reforming things without creating enough awareness(educating the masses) and good reward/punishment system, such actions are bound to fail.

You might be surprised to hear that in Islam wine was gradually banned, step by step. If it was done in the American fashion the result could have been catastrophic just like US.

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No. Muslims aren't doing it for their health, they're doing it for Allah. This isn't something you could replicate outside of religion. Additionally, the negatives of alcohol aren't enough to warrant banning it for many.

 

[awesome]

There are actually scientific studies that show that moderate drinking is healthier than not drinking st all.

 

[wigwam]

No. Muslims aren't doing it for their health, they're doing it for Allah. This isn't something you could replicate outside of religion. Additionally, the negatives of alcohol aren't enough to warrant banning it for many.

Religion is obviously a big factor, but there's more to it than that. There's also culture, economics, opportunity, etc. There are non-Muslim countries where people barely drink (Bhutan, Sri Lanka). There are also majority-Muslim countries (Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Sierra Leone) and plurality-Muslim countries (Nigeria, Bosnia), where people are hardcore drinkers.

Also, alcohol use is rising rapidly throughout most of the Muslim world.

 

[Blueboots]

There are actually scientific studies that show that moderate drinking is healthier than not drinking st all.

Moderate drinking of wines, or of all alcohol? I know that wine is heart-healthy because of resveratrol (and other compounds), but are we also talking vodka and beer? Besides sanitizing the water, are these actually good for you?

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

There are actually scientific studies that show that moderate drinking is healthier than not drinking st all.

I can't even bear to think how terribly this can turn out, but here I go:

"They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great harm and utility for men; but the harm of them is greater than their usefulness." (Al-Baqarah 219)

The Quran fully acknowledges that there are some benefits to drinking in moderation, though that mostly applies to wine, and the consequences have clearly outweighed the benefits.

I just had to mention that. But let's get back on topic, eh?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Moderate drinking of wines, or of all alcohol? I know that wine is heart-healthy because of resveratrol (and other compounds), but are we also talking vodka and beer? Besides sanitizing the water, are these actually good for you?

There's a correlation with longer life, but the belief is that having friends lives to a longer life and alcohol makes social situations smoother so it's easier to get a circle of friends.

 

[Menzies]

I can't even bear to think how terribly this can turn out, but here I go:

"They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great harm and utility for men; but the harm of them is greater than their usefulness." (Al-Baqarah 219)

The Quran fully acknowledges that there are some benefits to drinking in moderation, though that mostly applies to wine, and the consequences have clearly outweighed the benefits.

I just had to mention that. But let's get back on topic, eh?

The Quran also details many other things that would land people in gaol these days.

 

[God of Kings]

Taken from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_dietary_laws

In Islam, consumption of any intoxicants (specifically, alcoholic beverages) is generally forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend prayers while intoxicated.

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath—unless (you are) travelling on the road—until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
— Qurʼan, Sura 4 (al-Nisa&#700, ayah 43

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (In Surat al-Baqarah: 219, it states:

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder.
— Qurʼan, Surah 2 (al-Baqarah), ayah 219

This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to avoid.

O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, al-ansāb , and al-azlām (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shayṭān's (Satan's) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.
— Qurʼan, Surah 5 (al-Maʼidah), ayah 90

In addition to this, most observant Muslims refrain from consuming food products that contain pure vanilla extract or soy sauce if these food products contain alcohol; there is some debate about whether the prohibition extends to dishes in which the alcohol would be cooked off or if it would be practically impossible to consume enough of the food to become intoxicated. The Zaidi and Mutazili sects believe that the use of alcohol has always been forbidden and refer to this Qur'an Ayah (4:43) as feeling of sleepiness and not to be awake.

Substances which are intoxicants are not prohibited as such, although their consumption is. For example, alcohol can be used as a disinfectant or for cleaning, but not as a beverage.

It means that hand sanitizer and aftershave are halal (despite the fact that both contain significant amounts of alcohol).

I am teetotal, but not a Muslim.

 

[m15a]

The Quran also details many other things that would land people in gaol these days.

how is this relevant even to the off-topic topic being discussed in the thread?

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

A book can't "fully acknowledge" something its author doesn't know about. Just how, roughly, would medical knowledge have included this health result with the scientific method still being 1200 years away?

In any case, don't we know now what position the book has on prohibition?

 

[Talcove]

Can we stop talking about the quaran and real islam, and talk about religion in Civ 5 BNW?

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

A book can't "fully acknowledge" something its author doesn't know about. Just how, roughly, would medical knowledge have included this health result with the scientific method still being 1200 years away?

In any case, don't we know now what position the book has on prohibition?

I'm sorry if I used the wrong adjective, then. Maybe I should have used does instead.

But please, let`s get back on topic. I`d rather avoid a flamewar.

 

[Menzies]

how is this relevant even to the off-topic topic being discussed in the thread?

How is mentioning what the Quran says about alcohol even slightly relevant here. That was the point of comment.

Taken from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_dietary_laws

In Islam, consumption of any intoxicants (specifically, alcoholic beverages) is generally forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend prayers while intoxicated.

O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath—unless (you are) travelling on the road—until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
— Qurʼan, Sura 4 (al-Nisa&#700, ayah 43

Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (In Surat al-Baqarah: 219, it states:

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder.
— Qurʼan, Surah 2 (al-Baqarah), ayah 219

This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to avoid.

O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, al-ansāb , and al-azlām (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shayṭān's (Satan's) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.
— Qurʼan, Surah 5 (al-Maʼidah), ayah 90

In addition to this, most observant Muslims refrain from consuming food products that contain pure vanilla extract or soy sauce if these food products contain alcohol; there is some debate about whether the prohibition extends to dishes in which the alcohol would be cooked off or if it would be practically impossible to consume enough of the food to become intoxicated. The Zaidi and Mutazili sects believe that the use of alcohol has always been forbidden and refer to this Qur'an Ayah (4:43) as feeling of sleepiness and not to be awake.

Substances which are intoxicants are not prohibited as such, although their consumption is. For example, alcohol can be used as a disinfectant or for cleaning, but not as a beverage.

It means that hand sanitizer and aftershave are halal (despite the fact that both contain significant amounts of alcohol).

I am teetotal, but not a Muslim.

To repeat another's question, how is this even in the slightest relevant? Are you trying to say that the Quran had it right, or are you just bringing up random information about alcohol prohibition? If that is the case I could post hundreds of pages worth of literature on both sides of the argument, none of it in the slightest relevant here. The choice of posting about the Quran though is an odd one.

 

[Talcove]

To the Glory of God: Use faith to purchase any type of Great Person starting in the Industrial Era.

Man, I can see there being a rush for this one.
That way, rather that having to fill out every social policy tree that requires it (Some of which may be exclusive), you can just pop this one into your religion and BAM! Any type of great person you want.

I do wonder, though, how much faith they will cost to be purchased by this belief. I imagine that, because of the aforementioned corner cutting, the great persons would cost somewhat more faith.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

Man, I can see there being a rush for this one.
That way, rather that having to fill out every social policy tree that requires it (Some of which may be exclusive), you can just pop this one into your religion and BAM! Any type of great person you want.

I do wonder, though, how much faith they will cost to be purchased by this belief. I imagine that, because of the aforementioned corner cutting, the great persons would cost somewhat more faith.

I don't know, it would mostly depend on your victory or prioroties, so you would probably be going for the policy trees that would get you your preferred GP type for purchase anyways, right?

 

[Martinus]

Well, it's pretty obvious that acceptance of various mood-altering substances over other is to a large extent culturally-determined. The best example is drugs vs. alcohol in our (Western) culture.

 

[Menzies]

Well, it's pretty obvious that acceptance of various mood-altering substances over other is to a large extent culturally-determined. The best example is drugs vs. alcohol in our (Western) culture.

It is interesting that we do make substances illegal when the issues of such actions are well established thanks to the prohibition years. It's all well and good to point to the damage that such substances can do, but at the same time it's just not realistic to see making them illegal as stopping anything. It seems to be more for the "feel good factor" for those wishing to do the "right thing", but ultimately the damage it does to society as a whole is mind blowing. Oh well, the changes slowly, and in a day and age where "good people" can still be openly homophobic, it's not as though it's the only problem with our world.

 

[awesome]

Moderate drinking of wines, or of all alcohol? I know that wine is heart-healthy because of resveratrol (and other compounds), but are we also talking vodka and beer? Besides sanitizing the water, are these actually good for you?

From a few minutes of research, it looks like all. Prett much any alcohol will lower risk of heart disease, especially beer and wine. Beer also has lots of vitamins and vodka is good for creativity. Pretty much google "moderate <drink> drinking is good for you"

 

[MadDjinn]

Man, I can see there being a rush for this one.
That way, rather that having to fill out every social policy tree that requires it (Some of which may be exclusive), you can just pop this one into your religion and BAM! Any type of great person you want.

I do wonder, though, how much faith they will cost to be purchased by this belief. I imagine that, because of the aforementioned corner cutting, the great persons would cost somewhat more faith.

I don't know, it would mostly depend on your victory or prioroties, so you would probably be going for the policy trees that would get you your preferred GP type for purchase anyways, right?

Liberty doesn't get a GP type for finishing it, so if you went Liberty/Piety you'd be covered for everything.

 

[Big J Money]

The OP can be updated now. The reformation beliefs have been revealed.