Well for mass baring particles kinetic energy can be obtained from the formula E=p^2/(2m), where E is energy, p is momentum, and m is mass. For mass-less particles E=pc, where c is the speed of light, and the energy would be of whatever type the particle is. But that doesn't put either momentum or energy as a superior quantity in any way.
Spirituality
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Itzatrap XIII
Chieftain
Can't say I'm spiritual, but I can't say I'm not.
The only thing I could say about myself is probably that I have times where I feel deeply at peace and other times deeply dreading of something irrationally unfathomable.
...or that I might as well need a cup of Hot Chocolate Marshmallows.
No disrespect but I think what I mean to say is something along the lines of 'Sometimes people are spiritual at times and sometimes not?' Or something like that?
I mean, I don't recall anybody being spiritual at times of total great distress or something like that? Maybe a few do but I don't think everybody could manage that, not looking down on a barrel of a gun or in great physical pain.
Can they? I couldn't imagine myself to be content and fully at peace when I'm being in utter horrendous pain or some other similar scenario.
The only thing I could say about myself is probably that I have times where I feel deeply at peace and other times deeply dreading of something irrationally unfathomable.
...or that I might as well need a cup of Hot Chocolate Marshmallows.
No disrespect but I think what I mean to say is something along the lines of 'Sometimes people are spiritual at times and sometimes not?' Or something like that?
I mean, I don't recall anybody being spiritual at times of total great distress or something like that? Maybe a few do but I don't think everybody could manage that, not looking down on a barrel of a gun or in great physical pain.
Can they? I couldn't imagine myself to be content and fully at peace when I'm being in utter horrendous pain or some other similar scenario.
If energy is the "ability to do work", what is momentum? From wiki, it appears that momentum is mostly a mathematic idea and doesn't actually do something. Is this correct?
Is momentum descriptive of something physical that is imparted by energy?
And work is just a measure of the transfer of energy. So we can define momentum as the ability to change in momentum; the ability to move things. Perhaps this isn't done because momentum has direction, but energy doesn't.
On top of that "ability to do work" as a definition has a few problems.
Firstly it suggests that 0 energy means that it can't do any work. But zero energy is defined as the energy of something motionless in an abyss -- like a free stationary particle. This is a useful number to assign 0 energy, but it is quite possible to have less energy then that, and there are no special properties for such things (except for restricted motion). The 0 point of energy isn't that special.
Secondly, it suggests that more energy means a greater ability to do work. But really it's the energy difference between the lowest energy and the highest energy in the system that allows work to be done, not the absolute value. So if you have a tank of hot water, and a tank of cold water, there is more ability to do work then just a hot tank: the hot and cold water could be mixed together in ways that create motion (for instance), but the hot tank is uniform so it can't do anything, even though it does have more energy on an absolute scale. This is related to the first point about how the zero point of energy is arbitrary.
So again, I'd say that like momentum, energy is just a "mathematic idea" too, or more precisely it's just a "conserved quantity".
It all makes sense until the end (bolded).
I do not understand how those mathematical concepts translate into particles. It was stated earlier that if all energy was removed from the universe, nothing would remain. Would the same apply to momentum?
How are energy and momentum as mathematical concepts connected to particles? If particles are energy and momentum, they have to be something other than concepts.
Is there an actual connection between the math and the physical "stuff"?
Particles have a quantity of energy and momentum. If the particles were removed from existence, there would be no energy and momentum. Similarly, if all electrically charged particles were removed, there would be no net electric charge.
(It's actually more complicated than that because the vacuum itself has an energy and momentum. At the very least, you can say that there would be no energy and momentum due to "stuff.")
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
And the kicker is that there actually aren't any particles, just a bunch of probability wave functions... I mean, until we try to observe them.
I'm an atheist or at least non-religious, I don't believe in God/gods or any scriptures. I'm still spiritual. I believe we have "spirits" or "souls" at least until science can explain human compassion and anger and reasoning etc. It's hardly random electronic impulses in the brain. I'm uncertain if there is a point to having a spirit but usually you can feel if an action is good or bad almost instantly. I guess I try to practise gut-feelingism or something.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Human compassion has been explained using evolutionary theory, I believe.
Believing that mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical is not the same thing as believing that souls or spirits exist or being "spiritual."
Narz
keeping it real
What warpus said, the human emotional system evolved right along with the rest of our brains. Tribes of people that had no respect & compassion for each other couldn't work together as well as those that did & thus were eliminated.
This doesn't really speak to whether we have "spirits" or "souls" & whatnot just saying that the fact that pro-social behavior generally makes one feel better than anti-social behavior is wired into us because it was favored by evolution.
Momentum is tied to energy in that all particles have an energy component that is due to momentum. Particles with mass also have a rest energy that depends only on their mass. However, mass causes gravity and gravity causes motion (of other particles), so to get rid of all momentum then you would have to get rid of all mass too. And that leaves no energy. So the state of no momentum and no energy is the same.
Particles have a computable energy, momentum, angular momentum, charge, and a number of other quantities. These are physical quantities, and can equally apply to larger objects like soccer balls. A soccer ball may also have a color that it reflects particularly well. Now energy and momentum can be reduced to more fundamental traits, like mass, direction, and speed. More fundamental is somewhat arbitrarily a judgment too, but it's largely a matter of keeping equations simple looking. But mass, direction, and speed aren't conserved, energy and momentum are. So we do assign names and variables to them and keep track of them to do useful predictions.
But then you could argue that all of creation is an anomaly of vacuum energy...
So in reading all these It would be nice to have an oversimplified statement that puts it all into perspective.
Momentum from what Sauron said, appears to create energy and therefore is "more fundamental".
Can momentum exist without mass?
Do energy and momentum exist separate from particles?
How similar is the relationship of energy and momentum = particles to the relationship between quarks and other subatomic particles?
All these questions point to the question: Is there are pre particle state in which either momentum or energy might exist?
i think that math does point the way, but only in that it makes thing clearer to us.Sauron said:
Hmmmm....
Not quite. The magnitude of the momentum is in the equation for a particle's energy. Thus energy looks like a sum of variables including the magnitude of the momentum, which is regarded as simple then an equation involving subtraction and division. But conservation of momentum and conservation of mass do not always relate the same variables in the same way. So neither is more fundamental.
Yes. Momentum for light:
The simplest of those is the last one, that says that momentum is Plank's constant divided by the wavelength. Plank's constant is very small, so even the most energetic photons do not carry much momentum.
No. There are only particles, space and time.
I don't think I can make a useful comparison like that.
I think the answer is no, but I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
I guess I always hoped to find some "awakening"out on my hikes. But I'm not Moses. The only thing I found in the mountains and the desert are bushes and trees.. I still enjoy my hikes, and rock scrambling. But I never really felt in touch with nature as I hoped to be. It's beautiful, but in the end it is just rocks, trees, and dirt.
Perfy's question is important and I think has been answered in different ways. people are looking for answers to important questions. sometimes those answers show up intellectually and other times not. Many folks, like Dis-g, are hopeful of an "experiential answer". I think spirituality is the search for answers and that in western society it is further defined as a "search for answers that lead to an experiential answer rather than a rational answer".
At the individual level, experiential answers are very convincing and powerful. They are poorly translated into words or argument and easily dismissed because of that. For many drinking wine is a powerfully enjoyable experience. And so we have a very complex and subtle vocabulary developed around trying to convey that experience and make it replicable in words (please ignore the marketing function of all that for now). For wine enthusiasts the words are still a poor substitute for the tasting. Are languages are not well suited to talk about all the tings our brains are capable of experiencing so we often dismiss any attempts to do so an limit our selves to what is easy to express.
Humans are social creatures and we are moved to great emotions by other people, by pets, by music. They all can make us feel "connected" to something outside of ourselves. Spirituality is the search for that experience.
In addition, conservation laws are related to symmetries of the universe. Translational symmetry in space yields conservation of momentum; translational symmetry in time yields conservation of energy. Since space and time are on an equal basis in relativity, both are fundamentally on an equal basis. Indeed, they are part of the same four-vector in special relativity (equivalent to a 3 dimensional vector, a quantity with a magnitude and direction, but in four dimensions - with time being the fourth dimension) - energy is the zeroth (time) component and momentum is the first/second/third (space) components.
Oh, it's quite easy that he's just referring to the esoteric definition of energy, which is completely different from what energy actually is. Vitalism is bunk, after all.Souron said:
No, that's mysticism, not spirituality. Spirituality doesn't have to involve introspection.Birdjaguar said:
Narz
keeping it real
It's funny though, I read an article somewhere that when white wine was dyed red even experienced tasters used red-wine expressions to describe it. Not sure what to make of it but it shows that our experiences & our thoughts cannot be separated. There is no such thing as "pure experience", even newborns are preconditioned towards their mother's voice & smell.
I think for many "seekers" the search for spirituality is a search for some sort of purity & clarity that does not & cannot exist for man. All one can do is slowly try to come to the truth, slowly gain clarity & focus but there is no perfection, to enlightenment, just slow progress (2 steps forward, 1 step back). Not as sexy as enlightenment/satori but that's been my experience so far.
Feeling connected to a greater whole is what helps us love our brethren & stay cooperative.
I think everyone seeks out that deeply connected feeling, some call it spirituality, I just call it living life.
I'm still not seeing much of a distinction between spiritual & emotional.
I opened a thread in the Science forum to continue the discussion on energy and momentum.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9759956#post9759956
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9759956#post9759956
