**spoiler** - Fast & Dirty Team Match

[Calis]

Just in case this will be moved to some place else some time in the future...






Hasdrubal Barca & Rodent....







Get out of here...






This is not intended for your eyes









So get lost....please









Everyone else is welcome of course...

 

[Calis]

So here is what we have...

A two teams death match on a tiny map created by DenyD. Thanks again for that

The roster is

Rodent: Persia
Hasdrubal Barca: Carthage
Calis: Celts
Chamnix: Zulu

The rules are changed like that: not 100% sure to what extend, but the information will follow:

What we know by now:

1 - NO corruption
2 - cheaper units
3 - 4 moves on a road (not 100% sure about that)
4 - tech pace slowed down
5 - Much higher (free) upkeep for units

This is intended to be a bloodshed...wait and see

Chamnix and I wanted to go for speed, so he selected the Zulu with their fast Impis (1-2-2)(20s) and I took the Celts with the fast Gallic Swordsmen (3-2-2)(40s). At least the basic resources like horses & iron are there right at the beginning so I don't have to fear not to get my Gallic Swords.

Now what are we facing: Hasdrubal Barca as Carthage with the rather annoying Numidian Mercenaries (2-3-1)(30s) and Rodent as Persia with its brutal Immortals (4-2-1)(30s).

A statement of one of our opponents was that on a tiny map nobody will have more than 3-4 cities. But with cheaper units and no corruption, I'd say that an extremely tight city placing should be very useful here. Maybe less than the 8 inner tiles per city. But concerning that I'd like to get Chamnix' ideas.

That's it for now...

 

[Chamnix]

I'm not entirely sure what the rules ended up being, but I agree that tighter spacing than normal is probably called for. I seem to remember having more than just 3-4 cities on a tiny map before running out of room, but I haven't played one in a while so I'm not sure.

If we are thinking ancient age bloodbath, then I will be building primarily impis. I think my impis cost only 10 shields in this game, so I have very little incentive to get cities above 10 spt. With no waste, size 6 is probably more than enough for most cities - say center tile, 2 forests, 1 mined BG, and 3 mined grasses/irrigated plains, whatever.

The Celts you can play 2 different ways - if you are thinking warriors for upgrade, then your cities don't have to be more than 5 spt which is probably size 2-3 for most cities. I doubt we will be able to afford to upgrade the number of warriors you could produce, so you probably want some cities to build warriors for upgrade, but others should be able to build gallics directly. 20 spt is probably stretching things a bit in the early going, so you should probably stop at 10 spt for a city which would probably leave you around size 6 also.

That's all just a long-winded way of saying I would space cities so that they each have enough good tiles to produce either 5 or 10 spt and not worry about ever getting more citizens than that.

 

[dutchfire]

Looking at the Council-Babe cagematch, let me say one thing. Don't bet on it that the game will end in the Ancient Age

 

[Chamnix]

This game will be a little different. These may be the final parameters:

Game Mechanics:
Turning off all victory conditions except Domination & Conquest
Accelerated Production is on (all build costs are halved)
All support levels are 6 times normal (Democracy gets same as Republic)
Each nation gets 50 free units (units above support limit cost 1g each)
Corruption & Waste are off
Reduce food eaten by each citizen from 2 to 1
Locked alliance of Zulu & Rome against Carthage & Persia

Map Parameters:
Wide open frontiers
No jungles, but lots of forests (need places for spices, dyes, rubber, etc)
No natural defensive lines (major rivers, mountain ranges, etc)
If we play without huts we'll need to adjust the Zulu trait as EXP is a very weak trait without huts

Added Units:
All tribes can build Berserks (4-2-1) cost 40sh
All tribes can build Dromon (2-1-3) with (2-1-2) bombard

Starting units:
Each tribe starts with 1 settler, 2 workers, 2 spearmen and an present from me

Couple of dicussion points left:
I'll take a look and see if there's way to easily slow down research though you could all just agree that only AA techs can be researched
I'm thinking of making this a relatively dry world (no marsh, no jungle a few rivers & lakes)
Any thoughts on modifying any other Wonders (Great Wall, Oracle or Great Lighthouse, etc)?
Should the game have barbarians and if yes, should the barbarian units be upgraded?

What could be the most important is the map of "wide open frontiers". I think the only reason the deathmatch has lasted so long is that there are only 2 very narrow attack points, so defense is easy.

 

[denyd]

As the Map Maker, I'll let you know that road movement is the standard x3 and unlike the cage match there are no chokepoints. I think each nation will probably get to 6-8 cities before the heavy fighting begins. I've also built in a couple of surprises, the first of which you discover on turn 1.

(Note: so as not to unbalance the game, this is also being posted in their game thread.)

 

[Calis]

There is something to be claryfied by the map maker:



Are the traits of the civs eliminated, or why aren't there 3 food units in the cities' center?

I didn't play the turn, and as I am late at home today have to wait till tomorrow...

 

[denyd]

I will check this when I get home - I didn't change the tribe traits

I did turn on accelerated production (5 shields for a worker) and accelerated growth (10 food to add a citizen). I'll have to see if that somehow modified the bonus food for an AGR tribe on a river.

 

[denyd]

I've checked all the possible flags and can't anything that might cause this. Your tribe had AGR set and you are on a river which should get you 3fpt.

Does KillerCane or one of the other map guru's have access to this forum and could pass on some wisdom? I have the BIQ file and can send it to anyone who might be able to help.

 

[Calis]

I've checked all the possible flags and can't anything that might cause this. Your tribe had AGR set and you are on a river which should get you 3fpt.

Does KillerCane or one of the other map guru's have access to this forum and could pass on some wisdom? I have the BIQ file and can send it to anyone who might be able to help.

Killercane joined BABE and definately has no access. Maybe Rick Meleet..

 

[Calis]

Nonetheless I would just like to have a few words on the first turn.

As I am going to have 5 food per turn, I am going to mine the BG east of my capital. With that I'd have 5 spt and I can do 4 turn settlers...

Question is whether a granary would be worth the shields to go for a 2 turn settler factory? For that I'd need 8spt. But we won't be building settlers for much time I'd think.

My first unit is going to be a warrior, as I am unable to grow within two turns right now an d buils a worker already...

 

[Cyc]

Does KillerCane or one of the other map guru's have access to this forum and could pass on some wisdom? I have the BIQ file and can send it to anyone who might be able to help.

I'll take look at the settings and see if I can solve the mystery, denyd. Just email me the BIQ.

 

[Chamnix]

I don't think granaries will be worth that much in this game. We don't need very large cities, and we will already grow very quickly. The main question I think is when to build a barracks - do you know how long it will take you to do Bronze Working?

 

[denyd]

Thanks Cyc, I'll send it when I get home

 

[Calis]

I don't think granaries will be worth that much in this game. We don't need very large cities, and we will already grow very quickly. The main question I think is when to build a barracks - do you know how long it will take you to do Bronze Working?

Around 9 turns

And thanks to DenyD & Cyc for your efforts...I actually have no idea of map making, so I am not much help...sorry

 

[Cyc]

Just as I thought, when you change the Food Consumption per Citizen from 2 to 1, the citiy reacts by only raising enough food to feed the initial Citizen. 1 food for 1 Citizen. I changed this setting back to 2 and saved it under a different name. Then emailed it to denyd. The new save has two food in the city, as it needs two food to feed the 1 Citizen.

 

[denyd]

Cyc,

Did you check if Calis, the Celts, an AGR tribe, has 3 food in his center tile?

Deny

 

[denyd]

Cyc,

Calis as the Celts should be getting an additional food in the city center since he's an AGR tribe on a river. I just checked and he is set as AGR, but he does not have the extra food.

Deny

 

[Calis]

Cyc,

Calis as the Celts should be getting an additional food in the city center since he's an AGR tribe on a river. I just checked and he is set as AGR, but he does not have the extra food.

Deny

If I understand Cyc correctly, I had the additional food, but the others only had 1 food, where I had two!?

 

[Cyc]

I didn't get the save. I got the biq. I didn't bring up any particular tribe in your game. The last tribe I personally played came up. The first time I played the game, 1 food showed up in the capital, even though the city was on a grassland tile. I closed the game, closed everything. Then opened up the editor and looked at all the rule choices. I then changed the consumption number from 1 to 2, saved and closed. I then started new game using the biq, and the same tribe came up. This time, with the city on the same tile, 2 food should up. Simple as that.

Calis shoud have the two food a normal city comes with plus a bonus food for a total of three.