*SPOILER3* Gotm16-Rome - Radio

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bolka
What I usually try to do is to use these 3 turns to quell as many citizens as I can, and then move on, leaving a couple of units next to the city, if I can afford it. Also I turn all citizens into specialists, so that the city starves and its size drops, so it will grow again with citizens of my nationality (OMG, ethnical cleansing ), which will help against flipping.
Idealy, you should use these 3 turns to terminate the resistance and buy a temple, then the chances of flipping are much lower it seems. It's easier to do when you have a lot of troops.

Yes, I usually do that too. I guess my method wasn't that unusual after all.

How do you get such a high income? The maximum I would usually get is about 600 per turn.

I don't know the answer that question because I didn't do anything other than the ordinary. If you like, I will email you my 1200AD save and you can check it out for yourself. Btw, I'm a little bit off with my income in the previous post; it was actually over 1400 GPT. It could be a lot more if I take the time to do the full micromanagement. The last time, I did a full micromanagement was around 800 AD.

Also I wanted to ask, do you move your palace in the late stages of the game? Is it a good way to build your newly conquered cities and maximize your score? Doesn't it lower your income dangerously for a while?

I have never move my palace in this game. My palace has always been at Rome since 4000BC. My FP is near the former capital of Japan; I even named it "Forbidden Palace" so that I can locate it quickly.

After I conquered a city, I usually do one of the following:

• Raze it immediately and have my settler to build a new one in the same or nearby spot. Note: I always have a good supply of settler and a lot of workers following my troops into battle.
  
• Continiously rush worker or settler until the city get to size 1 before I start to rush improvement. This way, if it flips, I have nothing to lose. Of course, always have units camping nearby to retake it if it flips. Btw, since we don't have to pay upkeep for those settler, I will use them to build more city after I completely assimulate their homeland.

 

[Bolka]

Oh, I was in monarchy though, can it make such a difference on the income? I wouldn't think so...

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Not to mention that I have to constantly have my other hand on the {Alt+Tab} key to switch over to other application when someone come in. I agree with you 100%; it's definitely not worth it.

On the other hand, I am as surely as shamelessly spending a LOT of time on the Civfanatics forum while at work...

Now, from an ethical point of view it is the same as playing Civ3, and it poses the same {Alt+Tab} key issue as you were wisely pointing out.
However, in this case I cannot help but feel it is worth...



Karasu's conscience (a booming voice from above): This is the reason why tonight thou shalt stay at work until three hours past closing time. So have I spoken.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bolka
Oh, I was in monarchy though, can it make such a difference on the income? I wouldn't think so...

Yes, I think it would make a different (about 500 more gpt). I forgot to mention that I also owned the Adam Smith and the Wall Street. And of course, market and bank for all cities that can produce more than 1 shield. Since the Romans were all about military and commerce, they would be sad if I don't take advantage of that.

 

[Bolka]

Oooooh, but how can I be a warmongering fool if I am in republic or democracy? These regimes are for the whimps, I'd be a laughing stock at the dictator's club....
I guess I'll have to reevaluate the political regime strategy...

 

[Karasu]

In this GOTM I switched to Democracy around 1300 AD (IIRC, I am really bad at keeping timelines).

I was already at war then, and always been at war with at least one other civ until the 1800s. I missed the Universal Suffrage, but with some % of my income spent in luxury + possession of all luxury resources my citizens were a reasonably happy lot.

I cannot claim not to have had any unhappy person in my empire, but I never had real problems.
I must say that my forces spent very little time in enemy territory, two-three turns at most: the time necessary to reach the targeted city, bombard it, raze it and found a new one on the spot. I think my citizens thought that we were fighting a defensive war...

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Bolka
Oooooh, but how can I be a warmongering fool if I am in republic or democracy?

You will be surprise of what you can get away with in Republic and Democracy. In my game, I was at war with India when I first starting to invade England (because they had MPP with the English), and I continued to be at war with them long after I eliminated Greece. Not one of my citizens ever complain about the war. Oh, I'm just so proud of my Roman citizens because they are the best militaristic civ I have ever played.

 

[civ_steve]

It's 1325 AD in my game; I'm up to Radio with 3 more mandatory Techs to complete the Industrial Age. I've been playing a moderately peaceful, builder-style game, and those 'Visagoths' to the north have repaid me by interfering TWICE in this Age.

As the Industrial Era dawned, only the Aztecs have been completely eliminated, and Japan's down to 1 Tundra city. The Greeks dominate the other continent. I researched Steam Power first; I still couldn't get a good deal for Nationalism from the Science civs, so I sold Steam Power for whatever I could get (quite a lot from Alex , but anyone else I sold it to didn't pay much.) I found that Alex and I were researching ahead of the others, and I ended up trading or buying Techs with him. When I eventually got Nationalism (as part of a trade deal), I tried to sell it to some of those who still didn't have it; best deal was 18 gold and a World Map from the Iroquois! In general, I haven't been able to get very good deals from the other civs, so my trading is mainly Tech for Tech.

First German interference: he completes TOE the turn before I did! Two turns before that he didn't even have Scientific Method, so he must have got it from the Greeks, and either had a GL or a stash of shields to finish it the next turn. And Bismarck didn't get new Techs, he just matched up and caught up with ME! So I bought Espionage, built an expensive Intelligience Agency, and researched Atomic Theory and Electronics the old-fashioned way. I pre-built for Hoover Dam, and finished it right after getting Electronics. Bismarck has fallen behind again; Alex researched Steel and Refining; I waited until France had Refining, and traded Atomic Theory for both. Then I saw that Alex had Combustion, and I traded Electronics for Combustion, AFTER I finished Hoover Dam.

Second German interference: not entirely his fault. The darn Americans decided to attack my Northern line of defense! After his fairly ineffective attack, I counter-attacked which activated the MPP America had with Germany (and Japan! ) As part of my Electronics for Combustion trade with Greece, I got Alex to ally with me against America, mainly to make sure they didn't side with Abe. BTW, I have one source of rubber, and it's right on my border with America, so it's pretty important territory. The war's been on for only a few turns; I'm upgrading and mass-producing Infantry, and have a solid line at the front, with a stack of Infantry and Artillery ready to take out America's front city. I used an Elite Legionary to attack a wounded American Cav, and got a GL out of it; Maximus formed my first army for the Game, all regular infantry. The German's first assault was a mixed stack of Archers, LongBows, with Spearmen, Pikemen and 1 Rifleman. After I disposed of their stack, Bismarck has sent a few Cavalry doing hit and run raids. I plan to use this war to permanently remove America's and Germany's capabilities to attack me. There's a nice source of rubber just 2 cities in; it's calling my name.

I have finally landed on the Barbarian Ridge. My infantry have been amused by the natives insistence to provide target practice. I've secured one additional luxury item, and I hope to get another coal source, also; although the American/German territory might be a more accessible source. I've written down about 30 to 40 Barbarian names, but have not had the time to work the puzzle. (I really want to focus on getting this game done and submitted.)

So, America and Germany don't have the military might to hurt me, and with Hoover's and most of my cities Factoried and developed, I should be able to out produce and squash them. Greece and I are basically tied in the Tech race (and far ahead of everybody else), so I plan to buy whatever Tech he researches, and get into the Modern Era at least 1 Tech ahead of him, research Fission and build the UN immediately. After that, I should be able to manage my research and production to finish the Spaceship ahead of him.

BTW, I'm in Republic, and since I got attacked, my people LOVE me! If I can be quick about my attacks, I should have no problem with War Weariness. I have 0% Luxuries, and 7 luxury resources, 5 directly and 2 being traded for. I'm getting Incense from England (give an old Tech for 20 turns of Incense), and Spice from Greece (part of the Electronics-Combustion deal). My main cities have built Hospitals, and are climbing into the mid-teens in population.

 

[Aggie]

The Industrial age was by far the most eventful area. Lots of wars, the first elimated civs, huge shift on the powergraph...

Around 700AD, got in the industrial age and almost immediately declared war to the Japanese. With the help of all other civs (mostly moral help, I did the work), I was able to take most of their land within 20 turns. When they were left with only 3 tundra cities, I made peace.

Alexander was a big threat in the race to Scientific Method and TEO. That's why I delcared war in about 900 AD and got all other civs to join me. That meant:

- no trade for Greece anymore
- huge pressure on Greece to defend itself against a united world
- Greece was forced to switch from Democracy to Anarchy and eventually another government, slowing their tech.

It worked perfectly. I managed to get ahead and build TEO before anyone else. I also managed to build Smith and capture Leo in the first years of the industrial age.

Around 1200AD I had a big tech lead on India, France and Greece with whom I had made peace after all my MA's ended. Greece still was at war with half of the world and was no threat anymore. About this time Germany wanted a tribute and declared war after I refused. I got America to join the war and again did not have that many units crossing my border.

At 1345 AD Greece was goneand America crippled by the Germans, with whom I already made peace again. Building factories and the Hoover Dam was high on my list.

I indeed got Hoover and switched to building artillery and later on tanks. I wanted about 40 of each before I wanted to start a war against Germany, to join America in the battle. When I was ready, America was already gone, but Germany had no chance against my military. I didn't take very long before I ruled over 3/4th of the continent.

Tech research slowed down a lot in the Industrial Age, since I had to do all the research myself. The rest was at war most of the time... And I never felt the need to switch to Democracy (always I had war on my mind and I didn't want to waste all those years with Anarchy). Therefore it took along time before I got to Radio, from 700AD to 1400AD...

when I discovered Radio, I had a big tech lead on India, France, Iroquois and England. I lead the histograph (with Germany still second) and I had about 13000 gold. no-one but me would be able to build a wonder. Everyone left is polite or cautious against me (except for Japan and Germany) and UN victory should be easy. However, I decided to go for the Space Race. I didn't feel for domination: I don't like the long 'atillery/tank combined with crossing the ocean' wars, especially in vanilla civ, without the 'move stack' button. And I won diplo in my previous GOTM game...

 

[Ronald]

In 1010AD, Germany is destroyed and the home continent is mine.
In keep the wars going on on the othe continent and prepare my invasion fleet.
Finally in 1435AD the Roman fleet is landing at full force, founding the city of Augustadorum and start the invasion:



The first target were obviously the Iroquoise, because of their early deads and their big empire. Secondly came the very well developed Greeks with their high culture.
The war was fought with full determination. In 1555 AD, Both Iroquoise and Greeks are gone:



All the other nations, whether former ally or foe followed shortly. In 1635, the whole know world is conquered by the Roman forces.



The whole world? No, a small Gallian village is still fighting for their independence. With all the odds against them, they must have some magic drink.



The Gallian village is still annoying the mighty Roman empire. To minimize the troubles, the republic of Rome has decided to surround it with forts and keep it at least untill the year 2049.

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by Ronald
The whole world? No, a small Gallian village is still fighting for their independence. With all the odds against them, they must have some magic drink.

Dammmm! Ronald! You beat me to that quote!! I was eagerly waiting for the next spoiler thread, when I could post it with pride... But you've been a lot more efficient than me. Well done!

Anyway, I have a couple more up my sleeve...

 

[Man of Kent]

1150AD Enter Industrial Age.
Rome is ranked first with the Germany second, but that will not last long. Rome is now in the middle of the pack regarding Techs but is worryingly three techs behind the French and 2 behind Babylon, Russia and Greece. The French have landed and founded Rouen on the west side of the island. As the French are the most advanced civ I’m a little concerned that they may have decided to try and establish a foothold on my island. I therefore agree a MPP with Russia just in case France tries something.

1230AD the expected French force, 5 Cavalry, 5 Rifleman and 2 Swordsmen arrives. They did not stay long and were quickly despatched back to France in wooden boxes before their comrades on the Galleons were over the horizon. The Russians declare war on France, hopefully this will keep the French busy for a while whilst I continue my crusade against the helpless Germans.

1285AD the Germans are no more. Have agreed a peace treaty with France but they have taken Brandenburg to the far north from the Russians who had taken it from the Germans. However the Russians are not in a very good position as French have managed to get Greece, India, Aztecs and Babylon to unite with them against the Russians and Russia is being attacked on all fronts. French are three techs ahead at this point and I’ve finally moved out of despotism now all the wars are finished.

1305AD Land on Impi ridge again this time with a force of four cavalry veterans and Impi warriors and horseman immediately surrounds me. My aim is to rid the ridge of impi and start to settle this land.

1365AD First settlement on Impi ridge.

1395AD our once glorious allies the Russians are no longer with us.

The early 1400’s is another period of negotiations as I try to establish a tech lead over the French. I managed to do this by getting to the Theory of Evolution first as France has gone the Espionage and communism route. French however still have combustion but I have Electronics. Complete research on Replaceable parts in 1435AD. Iroquois are at war with India and England

1490AD I discover Radio and now 3 techs away from Modern Age. Trade with the French they do not have Replaceable parts yet but will not trade Flight for anything. Iroquois have been defeated and the whole world is at peace. Rome still ranked first with the French now second.

 

[zagnut]

1. Many people seem to have been behind in techs and culture at the beginning of the Middle Ages. While many caught up with techs by the end of the Middle Ages, that was not always the case with culture. We seem to be culturally deprived in this game.

2. The other continent never fought any wars that I knew about until 1290 when France declared war on me. I quickly allied with the Iroquois and this set off a cascade of alliances that ended in a World War being fought on the other continent. Perhaps 1 or 2 units made it to my continent and they were quickly eliminated. Those wars enabled me to get ahead in technology by the middle of the Industrial Age.

3. Cracker wanted to know how the trades of resources, luxuries, and technologies influenced the progress of the game. The trading game was crucial. Since I, as were most people, was behind in techs I traded everything I could through the entire game. Bamspeedy’s article on Attitude came at a good time. I had decided not to invade the other continent, but to go for a diplomatic victory. I had good relations with most of the civs on the other continent during the World War that took place during the Industrial Ages. However, when the war was over, the attitudes of the other civs took a nose dive. Bamspeedy explains why in his article in the War Academy. Now I am struggling to improve the attitude of the other civs with bribes and gifts.

4. Great Leaders were hard to come by in the early game. Many people complained about this. I had my first GL in about 1350.

5. Most people seemed to leave the Barbarian lands alone until the end of the Middle Ages or the beginning of the Industrial Age. Moonsinger was the obvious exception, invading early and using a couple of Knights to eliminate the barbs. I did not invade until 1350, when landed 2 Infantry, 1 Cavalry and a Settler to form a city. After that it was easy to defeat the Barbs. I just sent one Cavalry and one Infantry north and another south. The Barbs impaled themselves on my superior weaponry.

6. Not much has been said about the puzzle except by Moonsinger. I have to admit that I am “puzzled” by it.

7. A word about Germany. I was a little reluctant to invade them with Cavalry because they had Nationalism and I thought I would lose a lot of units to their fortified Riflemen. However, when I invaded I found they had not built many Riflemen and I essentially zipped right through them. However, the war took me longer than I like (22 turns) because my supply lines were long and it took forever to get units to the front lines. I started the war before railroads. It ended in 1250.

8. From the maps that have been posted it is interesting to see how the other continent developed. In my game the Iroquois were the big dogs and that seems to be the case on most of the maps that have been posted. But I see that Karasu had India in charge.

 

[zagnut]

This is my current map which I forgot to attach to the last post:

 

[thd]

Originally posted by zagnut
5. Most people seemed to leave the Barbarian lands alone until the end of the Middle Ages or the beginning of the Industrial Age. Moonsinger was the obvious exception, invading early and using a couple of Knights to eliminate the barbs. I did not invade until 1350, when landed 2 Infantry, 1 Cavalry and a Settler to form a city. After that it was easy to defeat the Barbs. I just sent one Cavalry and one Infantry north and another south. The Barbs impaled themselves on my superior weaponry.

Though I did not settle the ridge very early, I landed two Legionaries on the mountains about 1/3 up fairly early - they survived just long enough for me to get contact with the Hammurabi

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by zagnut

Some thoughts about your posts and my experience:
1. Many people seem to have been behind in techs and culture at the beginning of the Middle Ages. While many caught up with techs by the end of the Middle Ages, that was not always the case with culture. We seem to be culturally deprived in this game.
8. From the maps that have been posted it is interesting to see how the other continent developed. In my game the Iroquois were the big dogs and that seems to be the case on most of the maps that have been posted. But I see that Karasu had India in charge.

I think it is pretty hard to be in the top dog in tech and ever harder in culture at the beginning of the Middle Ages given the circumstances. I caught up with both techs and culture by the end of the Middle Ages.

Greece was the strongest in my world. India was close behind and the others seemed close in territory but lacked science and land improvements. When India sneak attacked me and started the WW, I did some thinking to avoid an all vs. one engagement and instead started a war that one side won after a long, long time

 

[Karasu]

Nice post, zagnut!

Originally posted by zagnut
1. Many people seem to have been behind in techs and culture at the beginning of the Middle Ages. While many caught up with techs by the end of the Middle Ages, that was not always the case with culture. We seem to be culturally deprived in this game.

That was my case too. That depends, I think, on most of us adapting to the obvious civ traits, which do not favour a cultural game.
I believe that a culture game would be perfectly feasible; indeed, even a military approach could lead to a cultural victory (as you wipe out your opponents and build a few temples here and there...). I wonder how many people went for a purely "cultural" game right from the start...

2. The other continent never fought any wars that I knew about until 1290 when France declared war on me. I quickly allied with the Iroquois and this set off a cascade of alliances that ended in a World War being fought on the other continent. Perhaps 1 or 2 units made it to my continent and they were quickly eliminated. Those wars enabled me to get ahead in technology by the middle of the Industrial Age.

I have seen that many players (including myself) actively favoured fights in the other continent. I think in my game they were never at pace, except the first few thousand years.

5. Most people seemed to leave the Barbarian lands alone until the end of the Middle Ages or the beginning of the Industrial Age. Moonsinger was the obvious exception, invading early and using a couple of Knights to eliminate the barbs. I did not invade until 1350, when landed 2 Infantry, 1 Cavalry and a Settler to form a city. After that it was easy to defeat the Barbs. I just sent one Cavalry and one Infantry north and another south. The Barbs impaled themselves on my superior weaponry.

I too settled Barbs' land later than I would have liked (Middle Ages), but I thought it was better to leave them alone until the situation in my home continent was not clear (i.e. at least a couple other civs dislodged... ).

I considered that mountain ridge only as a block to expansion, communications and explorations, overlooking the possibility to get an early contact with the other continent on that side. That would have been a significant advantage in the early game.

8. From the maps that have been posted it is interesting to see how the other continent developed. In my game the Iroquois were the big dogs and that seems to be the case on most of the maps that have been posted. But I see that Karasu had India in charge.

The Iroquois were the most powerful in my game too. They wiped the English early in history, then started growing too much. That's why I declared war to them and allied with everyone else. The allies made a very good job: India made of course too good a job...

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by Karasu
I believe that a culture game would be perfectly feasible; indeed, even a military approach could lead to a cultural victory (as you wipe out your opponents and build a few temples here and there...). I wonder how many people went for a purely "cultural" game right from the start...

I tryed not to say a word about this the whole month fearing that I would end like in GOTM 15 where I wrote my dreams of a medal and got 5th place.

... Yes I went for early culture with Rome. It was my first culture win ever and it was a lousy attempt as I tried to copy CB's GOTM 14 deity culture win but failed completely. Actually it turned out that I had to delay domination, and UN wins just to be able to achieve the cultural win.

Someone must have beaten me to it and my score was pathetic. I only hope to score better with Aeson’s formula.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Yndy
I tryed not to say a word about this the whole month fearing that I would end like in GOTM 15 where I wrote my dreams of a medal and got 5th place.

Yes, life seems very funny that way. GOTM15 was just a Monarch game; I was writting my dreams of a medal too and got 4th place. If I had dreamed a little bit more, you would have been at the 4th place and I would be at the 5th place. Therefore, in this game, I just have fun and not to think about the medal or the score. Actually, in this GOTM16, there is only 1 person I often think about while my Romans matching for war and that is SirPleb. "What would SirPleb do if he is in my position?" To attack, to die in trying or to regroup? That was really the only thing I was dreaming about.

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by Yndy
I tryed not to say a word about this the whole month fearing that I would end like in GOTM 15 where I wrote my dreams of a medal and got 5th place.

Yndy, I think 5th place is something I would be proud of!

Also, a cultural win in this game was surely not the easiest path to follow...

As for myself, I tried my first "milking" attempt ever. I discovered a lot of things, I think I improved a lot, I managed to rule the world, I even caught a glimpse of the beauty of a milked game, and I got my personal best (beyond my second ever win at Emperor...). So, all in all, I am really glad I played this GOTM.

As for the score, I think mine will only rank high if at least twenty other players have submitted their games to the wrong e-mail address !