*Spoiler3* Gotm22-Vikings - End Game Submitted

[cracker]

Again take a few seconds to read this introduction carefully to make certain you DO NOT run afoul of the divided spoiler rules.

This is the Third and final spoiler thread to support discussion of the Gotm22-Vikings.

The objective of these divided spoiler threads is to provide a little organization to the discussion that will help more people find the topics that they are interested in without having to rummage through the entire game discussion.

The test for access to this spoiler thread is simple:

• you must have submitted your final save file from playing the game.

You may discuss any information from the game but if you are posting reports of events and/or activities in the Ancient or Medieval portion of the game, those reports should be placed in the correct spoiler for that time segment of the game.

This thread is a great opportunity to post an overall summary of how you game progressed.

If you have not already done so, you may want to post a cropped screen shot of the core of your empire showing where your 20k city was located if that is an important feature of your game. You may want to discuss in hindsight what the pros and cons of various sites for the 20k city mught have been and if you had it to do over again where would you place your 20k city and why?

We hope that all players have enjoyed this game and that you are looking forward to Gotm23-Arabs!!

 

[Wanderer]

OPEN PTW 1.21f

Well, GOTM22 is my best results in a CIV3 game, ever. I've never won on Empoeror, let alone Emperor +, as this game was. Not to ignore that this is, I believe, my first ever 20K win in 1960 (3541 firaxis points). Yay me !!

That said, the reviews of the 2nd spolier taught me much. I was far too afraid of the AI, given the level I was playing at, and if I recall correctly, I never created a GREAT LEADER. Sir-Pleb astounded me with 9 or more! Looking back, I wonder how much faster I might have been in my 20K city.

As it was, each and every wonder in my 20K was built, brick by brick. I moved my starting city W, after the scout had showed the fertile lands there. That allowed both cows to be part of my original city, which gave me an boost to getting a settler out soon.

I went with my 20K city - Bjoern, SW,W from my starting city, after an intensive investigation of that area. The reasons were :
Water access - no aqueduct needed.
Hills - nice for Shields - I had 3 or 4.
Access to both cows.
I did lose out on 1 square of the 21 - the square that the starting city occupied. I too that as a trade off for almost NO corruption, and having the Palace as a pre-build.

Not having GL's to rush wonders, the palace pre-build was critical. I never had the issue some posted about variable palace costs .. it was always more than the wonder, and my timing was generally good enough that I never had to worry about excessive shield wastage waiting for a wonder.

My final 20K city had :
Temple (2430bc)
Library (270bc)
Cathedral (520ad)
University (930 ad)
Colosseum (980 ad)
Research Lab (1788 ad)
GREAT WONDERS :
Hanging Gardens (410bc)
The Oracle (1175 bc)
Sistince Chapel (430 ad)
JS Bach's (850 ad)
Shakespear's Theatre (1220 ad)
Theorey of Evolution (1495 ad)
Hoover Dam (1535 ad)
The United Nations (1782 ad)
SETI (1814 ad)
The Internet (1840 ad)
Cure for Cancer (1866 ad)
Longevity (1892 ad)
Small wonders:
Intelligence Agency (1565 ad)
Wall Street (1715 ad)
Apollo (1906 ad)
BattleField Medicine (1920 ad)

I reached a stable size of 25, and end with 80 spt, 50 food per turn, 169 commerce per turn.

One thing I had, that few others seem to have done, was a VERY late golden age. I triggered my golden age deliberately just before (or after) getting electricity.

At that poin in time, I was behind by about 4 or 5 techs. My golden age pushed by tech's forward, and gave my 20K city 104 SPT, which helped me ensure I got ToE (using a palace pre-build again), which I used to get Atomic Theorey and Then Hoovers. You'll see that Hoovers was build 8 turns after ToE in my 20 K city - 800 shields in 8 turns, due to my golden age.

I was able to translate hte tech's into a tech and cash lead, which definitely stood me in good stead to win the game.

The major other difference I can tell is that I didn't have to put any effort into getting the rest of the world to be at war. I was a very peaceful civ - the only major war effort I out in was with greece to destroy France and Russia (done to trigger my GA, and grab some needed lux's).

I took over the "australia-like" continent, and was very happy with the vital lux's and resources that provided.

One of my larger errors - (apart from not warring enough to get GL's)- I built my Forbidden palace in .. 1922 AD, in a size 2 city, on the "australia continent". I did it to try and ensure I didn't lose those resources, but so late!!

All in all, I really enjoyed this game (took me 63 hours - how many other games give the amount of enjoyable gametime we get, eh ??)

 

[Megalou]

At the end of my middle ages the following peoples were still standing: Vikings, England, Celts, France, Russia, Greece, America, China.

Spoiler 2 for your intense perusal

Enter the Industrial Age in 1090. In 1200 a leader finally rushes the Forbidden Palace in the third Russian city I capture. It must be one of the latest dates for FP in this community. England (MPP), Celts, France and America are also at war with Russia. Most of the cities fall to me, but S:t Petersburg with Leo’s Workshop is taken by England.

I have started my invasion from the western end of the land bridge where there are a lot of mountains where the cavalry can hide. Galleons are used to ship troops because France blocks the land strip with a town that I expect to flip to me. With a second core the tech pace goes up.

Bjoergvin is prebuilding Universal Suffrage. Technologically I’m still behind at this point. But England is choosing the combustion path and they have already turned communist in their desire for efficient military campaigns. Their pace is slowing. After the destruction of Russia I turn democratic. I can sail on towards Universal Suffrage easily and then Darwin’s Voyage. Seeing how Russia is doomed, I make peace with them before the end without violating alliances, exchanging a tech or two.

Afterwards I resume MPPs with England and Celts. Together we are the strongest. Greece declares war (making England go back to communism again) – and is wiped out. I now have a tech-lead so big I can give America tech for MPP every 20 turns. Finally it becomes safe to sign MPP with the weak French.

China declares war on someone and its doom is assured, making England the sole opponent in the UN vote. The worse thing that can happen is that England or Celts turn on France, and then on me, since they sometimes sign MPPs with each other. But they are far from tanks and my Modern Age is around the corner. I will get the votes of France and America even if this scenario were to appear.

The only risk is that America turns on France. But they are simply too busy gulping the Chinese territory right now. At the end of the age I am conducting a careful prebuild of the United Nations, scheduled to be finished at the precise moment when the Chinese have been eliminated. That should give me the votes of France and America for sure. The Celtic vote is more doubtful. They seem to have lived peacefully with England for 5600 years!

At the end of the period in 1640 my relations are satisfactory:
England: gracious
Celts: gracious
America: gracious
France: gracious
China: furious

I delay the completion of UN until the last Chinese city is taken. Elections are held in the year 1740 and the results are 4-1 in my favor. Elizabeth voted for herself. (She has that narcissistic look, doesn't she?)

The score is not impressive. In order to score better I should have taken many more chances early on. But I wanted a safe, smooth victory and I’m quite happy with that.

About the choice of victory type

Even though the difficulty level was high, the starting location on this map was so favourable that diplomatic victory could have been achieved faster. But it was definitely NOT the best victory type here. Given the good starting location there are several other types of victory that would allow you to progress much faster in the acquisition of power and territory. Unlike others, I could not attack the AI indiscriminately. What would I have done if there were only one or two civilizations left in the end? How was I to know if it was safe to eliminate France in the early Middle Ages? What if China had eliminated America?

My conclusion is that diplomatic victories are most useful as last-minute scrambles on very difficult maps, where you are unable to eliminate or cripple some of your opponents. (Zachriel’s GOTM14 is a memorable example.) Looking at my minimap from 1640, you could object that it would take me another 40-50 turns to eliminate England and Celts. But that would not have been the case if I had not aimed for a diplomatic victory from the beginning.

I’m sure this is not the whole truth. I may have been a bit too diplomatic and inefficient in the ancient era. However, diplomacy and the acquisition of territory don’t seem to rhyme so well with each other. Still, there is something very appealing about the UN vote. It's the only victory condition where you can win or lose the game in one single turn.

PS. Congratulations Wanderer! That's one impressive line of wanders, sorry wonders!

 

[Puzzlinon]

(Medieval age.)

I entered the industrial age around 1000AD, a little behind in tech,
with 2nd-place production, 3rd in GNP, and 6th in land area. I owned the subcontinent, but nothing more.

Bjeorgvin, my culture city, had a slow start; with some more wonders, it can make 20k, but not until the very late game. (20th century.)

During the industrial age, I did what I set out to do. I built Theory of Evolution in Bjeorgvin by the skin of my teeth, and that led to a tech lead (monopolies in Atomic Theory, Electronics, and Radio, which I researched at full right away.)

I built Hoover in Nidaros, and got to full development in about 8 core cities (I basicially only had core cities.)

I slowed the tech pace by stealing ther civ's monopolies (luck never hurts) and reselling them. I stole Steel from the Russians and Refining from the Greeks, and sold them both for a ton of money.

I attacked the one-city French to keep the Russians from taking their city on my tundra and eliminated them. I was attacked by the Russians (at a bad time) but put them down, and took a toehold (Orleans) on their mainland.

By the end of the industrial, I was rich, and was among the front of the technical pack. I had great relations, and a smallish but decent military. Bjeorgvin looked like it could reach 20k by the very late game, with some more wonders.

Here's the situation at the start of the modern era:



The game omits city names from some cities near the bottom of the map, but they're there...

I had decisions to make. There was no way in hell that the AI's wouldn't reach Space before I hit 20k. And there were lots of strong AI's. Russia and America were huge, Greece and England were advanced, the Celts and China were behind but not far.

I had great manufacturing and a thin technical lead, so I could ace the space race. Or I could take an easy diplomatic victory (I finished the U.N. in 1758, and "would have" won the vote 4-1-1.)

On the other hand, keeping to the original plan of a culture victory would mean fighting it out for 300 years, and having to cripple four larger AI's (England, Russia, America, and Greece) to keep them all on the ground. London, Moscow, Washington, and Athens would have to be sacked, and maybe Beijing. I had a pile of artillery and some cavalry.

So that's what I did.

In 1720 Russia declared war on me. I bought the world into alliances, and set to it. This was the heaviest, most difficult warmaking of the game, especially in the early going. The northern front was fairly easy going, but the Russian cities were huge (several in the 22-28 pop range.) And the south was that awful hilly tundra that took years to slog over.

In 1792 I eliminated the Strong Russians. (That was also the year of our SETI program.)

In 1824, I developed Synthetic Fibres first, and upgraded 50 tanks to Modern Armor. There were trade agreements left from some tech-trade madness, so I just built equipment for a while.

I attacked Greece in 1840, drove them off the continent in 1846, and spent some time digging them out of the south-eastern lands with transported troops. No hurry; once they were off continent, they weren't a problem.

There was one Greek town I had to have, even though it was a pain in the neck to reach: Detroit, a wee port on the far eastern sea-channel between China and America. I took it (with the help of a longstanding ROP with China) and built an airport in it right away, and then started building transports there while I flew in a few armor each turn. Detroit was 4 sea squares from America, and in particular, Washington.

I finally gave Alexander peace in 1892, in return for his last villages.

In 1900, America and England started making space ship parts.

In 1922, I declared war and landed 48 mech inf and modern armor in England. In 1928, I razed London, destroying the English space ship. In 1936, I razed Nottingham, and gave England peace.

In 1940, sailing from Detroit , I razed Washington and the American (8-piece) space ship. I made mincemeat of the American core... guess who Abe had relied on for his rubber?

In 1954, a nuclear war broke out. We took a hit on the diamond city, and on a founded city in America, but none to core assets.

In the 60's I sold off a raft of temples and libraries on the home continent,leaving only Bjeorgvin. I was at the brink of 100k, but Bjeorgvin's had years until 20k.

In 1965, a random city investigation (I had a lot of money by then)
showed Brighton building the Apollo program. (We'd already sacked a British space ship of several parts.)

In 1974, the English build their second SS Storage Supply. They continue to accumulate parts, slowly, from their few remaining cities.

In 1992, we declare war on England again, and raze Hastings (the capitol) to destroy the Second English Spaceship.

In 1995, we take another nuke on Vasteros (the gem city.)

In 2000, with all parts built except the Party Lounge built, I stole The Laser from England. Since we have a leader in Bjeorgvin, that makes....

... 2001 a late, but hard-earned, double victory year.

20k culture in Bjeorgvin or a Space Ship launch. 4052 game points. 38 hours clock time.

Here's the final layout:



It was a very fun game. Given my very slow start in Bjeorgvin, I didn't really think I'd be able to suppress all the space ships; getting that Greek outpost right across the channel from Washington made it a lot easier.

 

[cracker]

I am actually surprized that none of the highly observant geography majors in this crowd have posted a copy of their full world map from the as early in the game as possible and then rotated it around 180 degrees so that the old south is now on the north.

While it is not really very effective to purely replicate world geography because that eliminates too many of the game play decision variables you can have alot of fun with the map of this game by flipping it arround and locating the pseudo equivalent of some real world features:

The North Sea
The Baltic Sea
The Gulf of Bothnia
The United Kindom
The English Channel
Finland

To get a full persepctive of the original landmasses with Russia, France. Greece, England, and the Celts you might nee to rotate the map another 45 degree clockwise.

This feature of the map was embedded just to give you the chance to retrospectively see if you semi-relived certain historical events in your own special way.

 

[Nightfa11]

Well, this game will be a non-submittal.

I usually, between sessions, save a game to a subdirectory called GOTMXX. I neglected to with my last save, and my wife decided to fire up a game of civ and play to about 1000 years past my last non-auto save. I was a bit disappointed, but did not want to replay the last 1000 years. It was shaping up to be a nice game, too. 14 cities in the QSC period and all.

 

[Tech Step]

I managed to get a cultural 20K victory on the last turn of the game 2050 (talk about timing it to perfection)

ps: This was my first ever attempt at a 20K victory.

I slipped into communism when I realised that america was going to beat me to the spaceship so I had to attack them and destroy their capital (washington) I would have done it sooner yet I only found out arount 1850 that the sea units had incredible movement (how stupid am I) and I was able to drop my units on american territory in 1 movement.

I learnt to love artillery this game as most of my attacking was done in the modern era when I was atrtack mech inf with tanks and getting nowhere. I just ended up building massses of artillery and bombing the crap out of every city redusing them in size from 25+ -> 1 in about 3 turns. hehehehehhehehehe

I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed the game however I would prefer it if in the future, standard units were not changed (ie their movement etc should be kept constant) as it does make things confusing when you have got it all predetermined in your head how things work.

anyways

prolly could of gotten a better score by going for a domination victory yet thought that it would be funt o try for a cultural as I have never won that way before.

cheers cracker for the game.

ps: when does the pregame discussion start for gotm 23?

 

[Megalou]

Unlike you, Tech Step, I thought that the special movements of sea vessels was a brilliant idea and also not unrealistic. I don't know if information was given in advance about this - like many others I read less than cracker wants. I spent hours wondering why the galleys sometimes moved two tiles and sometimes three. But it didn't make much of a difference to me before astronomy anyway. Enough of that until the expected poll comes up...

As for the geography, I don't understand where Finland is supposed to be. The area west of the landbridge has far too much tundra and mountains to resemble Finland. And where are all the lakes? On the other hand, if the area where Jeanne D'Arc was born was supposed to be the real Finland then I understand.

I did associate to the armies of Napoleon and Hitler as I edged towards Moscow and I daresay I was a bit apprehended about the venture due to this association. I also think you did a good job making England a tough nut to crack, just like in history.

 

[Sailorstick]

Finally! My chance to gloat arrives
Alright, alright, I know I was playing Conquest but it was first 20K victory.
I killed off all but 1 or 2 cities for Greece, Russia and France. I was also making a very strong push into Keltoi lands. I had taken about half of their lands before I won with 20K.
Yet again I think I left my military push too late so I was lagging behind in score for most of the game.
Here's a screeny of all the wonderful culture I was able to amass. Drool
I wasn't able to secure Copernicus or Newtons though AI seems to like them a lot. All but 2 of my wonders were hand built.
I would also like to comment on the naval movement rates while I'm here. In the later ages the extra movement was awesome and the original game should have these rules, however I think the early movement really...stank.
I was hyped up to make my first amphibious raid only to discover that my boats could only move 2 squares! I aborted that idea quickly. Really, I think that early naval movement should be encouraged, not hindered.

 

[mabellino]

conquest ptw 1.21f

Well another victory for me! I finally scraped a 20k victory in 1998AD firaxis score 2358, jason=1770.
I chose my second city Bjorgervin to be the cultural powerhouse (erm in a manner of speaking!) and founded it on the coast to the west of the pre settled Nidaros.
Almost all my wonders were handbuilt with the exception of Cure for Cancer and Longevity which were rushed with leaders from the great "Russian Resource Denial" War. Handy that America and England lacked aluminium and were trading for it from Russia... there were no AI spaceships even near completion in my game! I think this was the turning point of the whole game as I was lagging behind on land area (so what's new there!) but the tech pace was fairly close. I managed to research a few of the bottom tier techs before the AI and sold them for the SS techs and a bundle of gpt.

My land area is pitifully small compared to almost everyone else and that is because I'm not aggressive enough in the stages where it counts. My war skills are absolutely pants and only improve if I manage to get vastly superior units.. think MA against Cossacks! Must remember that score is averaged! Early expansion=better score and easier game!

Now for the 20k screenies



All in all a thoroughly enjoyable game even if it was a bit of an uphill struggle at times.

PS. My historians tell me that had I decided to hold the UN election in 1844 I would have won with a firaxis score of 2744, jason=3477. 20k was a more noble victory so I'll accept the lower score!

 

[sourboy]

I don't remember too much about this game as I finished a couple weeks ago, but here were the pics I premade for (what I thought would be Spoilers 3 & 4).

After the Industrial Age
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/sourboy_gotm22_industrialage.jpg

Final
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/sourboy_gotm22_final.jpg

The only notables in my game was how weak the Aztecs were (only 2 cities at their high point), and that I never had a Golden Age (thats a first). Beyond that it was nice to win my first Monarch(+) game.

 

[sourboy]

I don't remember too much about this game as I finished a couple weeks ago, but here were the pics I premade for (what I thought would be Spoilers 3 & 4).

After the Industrial Age


Final


The only notables in my game was how weak the Aztecs were (only 3 cities at their high point), and that I never had a Golden Age (thats a first). Beyond that it was nice to win my first Monarch(+) game.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Conquest 1.29f

My early game pulled me through, because my game from the Industrial ages on was just a matter of holding on by my fingernails.

First a point that I couldn't bring up in the last thread. The galloglass' amphibious capability was terrific. I used it to attack the Russian city of Kiev just across the "Baltic Sea" (now that cracker has shed light on that) just as the IA was beginning. It also started my GA. I brought cavs and muskets directly into the city once it was captured and was able to open a two front war on Cathy. And within 8 turns was able to wipe out the Russians.

Here is where I think I made my first mistake. I kept hoping to get a leader and move my palace over to the former Russian lands and make a second core of productive cities. I didn't get my first leader until 34 years before the game was over (1906 AD or so). That made my russian lands very corrupt. I was able to reduce that a bit with courthouses, police stations and being in democracy, but never to the extent that it would have been with the palace nearby.

I was just keeping up in tech. Mostly buying in at last civ prices.
The next mistake I made was not holding out for Scientific Method and using my pre-build for ToE. I had a decent pre-build in my wonder city and I decided to use it to build a cathedral and restart the ToE pre-build. Big mistake. I missed ToE by 2 turns. That slingshotted Liz well ahead of the rest of the world in techs and she was holding out for some serious change in selling techs.

I never got another Great Wonder, although I did get some small wonders.

So now I'm scraping my way up the tech tree, and Liz is miles ahead. She builds the UN and SETI and I'm still at Replaceable Parts. I figure I'm toast. This is in 1804AD and Sir Pleb's calculator is telling me I can win in 1961!

She calls for a UN vote . We split 3 for me, 3 for Liz, Abe votes for himself. I figure I'm going to lose to a spaceship launch.

I figure I'm going to have to either go to war against England or distract Her majesty away from her SS. Then out of the blue in 1814 Monty declares war. I bring in the whole world against him. And thanks to the AI's poor use of transports, I was able to get over to South America and get the lion's share of Monty's lands. I was using cavs, Liz brought her tanks. All my cities in Azteca are corrupt as can be, but land is land.

I then kept bringing Liz in on several wars. I blitzkrieged Greece in two turns, but was able to bring Liz in on that one. She showed up, but too late to get anything.

I didn't have the cash to investigate her and keep buying techs so I just kept my fingers crossed and kept going.

In 1902 AD, I figure a SS launch is going to happen any turn, so I launched a war against Mao. Liz buys into that one for only 230G and Abe for 130G. I got there first and tried a delaying action by surrounding Mao's last city. I only captured it because Liz was approaching from the sea with two transports. That was 1914 AD. That was bought me 12 turns, but Sir Pleb's crystal ball is telling me I have to hold out till 1944.

I have a MPP with Abe and Liz. Another mistake. I'm been keeping Joannie as my steady sweetheart the whole time just in case there is another UN vote.

Then in 1926 Liz declares on Abe and I'm drawn into it. Then Liz buys Joannie in against me! My sweetheart! My love! How can you do this to me?!

Somehow the war drug out for 14 turns. I lost half of my cities in South America and my two former Greek cities in Ireland. I started spanking Joannie once I was able to fly my tanks back from China. I got another leader and rushed the Military Academy (I still think that should be the Naval Academy!) in Wonderland and I won a 20K victory in 1940 AD.

It was not very satisfying. I'm glad I won, but if it wasn't for the 20K city I would have probably lost sooner or later.

Sometime back in the Middle Ages, I was thinking "This Emperor stuff is cake!" I'll have to go for deity soon. Now I'm thinking if it wasn't for the extra bonuses I had at the start, I'd be writing about a loss right now.

Lessons learned:
1. Go to war early enough to get a solid second core. In hindsight I waited way too long to take over the Russian/French/Greek side of Europe.
2. Don't ever plan on getting a leader. If you do get one, that's just icing on the cake.
3. ToE is critical to the IA tech race. You have to get it!
4. I have to learn more about playing in the Industrial and Modern Ages.
5. Avoid MPP with 800 lb gorillas.


Edit: One final geography note. I also think that cracker made the continent America was on look a bit like North America with a Gulf of Mexico thrown in there. I think I also recognized Greenland way up north of North America.

 

[SirPleb]

1.21

Ancient Times
Middle Ages

At the end of the Middle Ages I'd just finished taking over the home continent.

I upgraded my Knights to Cavalry, keeping five elite Knights for leader opportunities against easy enemies. In 750AD I declared war on Celts and invaded the small island between continents with Berserks. I captured the Celt town there, and Greece's last town which shared the island. Then I went for the Celts on their mainland.

My Cavalry went through the Celts fairly easily, assisted by some remaining Berserks who launched a couple of attacks from the sea. In 880AD Celts were down to one town in the far southeast part of the world and I gave them peace.

During this time the leader I had saved from the Middle Ages rushed Universal Suffrage in my 20K city. A new leader from the Celt wars rushed Theory of Evolution in 900AD.

In 900AD I declared war on England. The war against England was a tough one. She had hordes of troops. Fortunately she'd never had horses and I'd never traded them to her. But she sure had a lot of units, including many Riflemen. The early stages of this war were tense. I had 34 Cavalry but only a bit over 20 were in England, the rest were required for defense elsewhere. For many turns I held back, picking off incoming English units and ending up with most of my units wounded at the end of each turn. But my forces held and eventually were able to take the offensive. Culture was a problem in this phase - I couldn't afford to leave units in captured towns for more than one turn because England's culture was higher than mine. Surprisingly I only had one city flip back to England, I expected more.

War weariness was a big problem during the English war. For a while I had to use the luxury slider a fair bit. And that was with Marketplaces, JS Bach's, and Universal Suffrage - definitely a very bad case of war weariness

During the war with England my 12th leader rushed Hoover Dam and my 13th leader waited for something to rush since the Industrial Age has limited wonders available.

Finally in 1100AD I'd taken all of England's homeland cities, leaving her with two towns in the far east, and I gave her peace.

I got some assistance from America and China in the Industrial Age - they were finally able to pay a bit for tech. America was MPP'd with England when I attacked her, so I MPP'd America and got her to join my side.

In 1020AD China and America went to war and due to my MPP with America I went to war with China. The Aztecs joined China. Aside from losing two luxuries temporarily this wars didn't impact me, they kept busy among themselves on the Amercia/China/Aztec continent. I made peace with China as soon as I could to regain her as a trading partner.

After driving England off her home continent I sent some Cavalry to attack Aztecs. I took them out, gaining a seventh luxury, and then took the remaining Celt and English towns in the south of that continent. Around the same time the ongoing China/America war created a wasteland in the far northeast. I sent a settler there and claimed some spices, bringing me up to eight luxuries without needing to trade. Some cultural expansion and new cities in that area brought me near the domination threshhold.

I researched at maximum, learning Flight and entering Modern Times in 1290AD. I stayed at peace through Modern Times and milked my holdings to improve score. Oslo built SETI and Intelligence Agency, rushed Internet with the saved (13th and last) leader, rushed a Hospital, then built Longevity, Cure For Cancer, United Nations, Manhattan Project, and Apollo Program. I kept research just fast enough to discover the required techs for Oslo to complete the wonders. All of these builds together shaved another seven turns off the 20K date.

A few rival towns offered to flip to me in Modern Times. I took two but rebuffed the others since I was close enough to domination.

Oslo reached a 20K victory in 16??AD

My world map looked like this near the finish:



My holdings were a bit scattered but I wasn't worried. The remote bits were well defended by superior units since I was ahead in tech. If America or China had attacked it would not have mattered.

Location of the 20K city

This was one of the most difficult decisions in the game.

First I eliminated using the cattle in my 20K city in the early part of the game. My thinking was:
1) The town using the cattle should have a granary to maximize the food bonus. I don't want to delay other work in the 20K city to build a granary.
2) If I use the cattle to create a 4 turn settler factory, that factory can produce 9 workers in 18 turns. My 20K city could grow to size 3 and then have 9 workers added to it to reach size 12. So I could accomplish that in 18 turns without using the cattle for the 20K city, by transferring workers. And then I'd still have a 4 turn settler factory continuing to pump settlers, vs. if I used the cattle directly in the 20K city in which case I would not end up with a settler factory after reaching size 12.

I considered possibilities which would share the cattle, allowing my settler factory to use them in the first part of the game and my 20K city to use them later on. That would result in a nice production boost for the 20K city later in the game - the cattle produce shields directly and more shields indirectly, by producing food which allows other citizens to work hills and/or mountains. Good choices for this would be S or SW of the plains cattle. But those locations had a serious drawback. A 20K city at those locations would have very poor production early in the game unless it used the cattle. So I eliminated those locations from my thinking, and therefore also eliminated sharing the cattle.

I considered a number of other locations and ended up choosing the tile E,NE from where our settler started. I chose that location because:
1) It would have good productivity early in the game with 3 bonus grasslands and one hills with wool.
2) It is on a river. So there's no need to use early production to build aqueduct, it can be stuffed to size 12 without one. And later on it can build Hoover Dam.
3) It is a reasonably good location for Forbidden Palace. I wanted Forbidden Palace in my 20K city. It adds 2 culture per turn, retains the option to use Palace as a prebuild (vs. using the capital for 20K), and it reduces waste, making the 20K city capable of building other improvements more quickly. But I didn't want Forbidden Palace just anywhere - I wanted it to be reasonably central so that I could move the Palace later on and still have good production in most of the starting region. This location wasn't perfect but wasn't bad for that purpose (vs. other good choices for the 20K city north and west of the start which would not be as good for Forbidden Palace.)
4) It is coastal. I didn't see much chance of getting Colossus or Great Lighthouse but there'd still be Magellan's to go for later on.

The 20K city did work out nicely at that location. With the advantage of hindsight I'd consider using the start location for the 20K city. I.e. move the starting settler W,W to get the grass cattle immediately and the other with expansion, then found a subsequent city for 20K at the start position. It wouldn't be coastal but it would have good early production, be a great FP location, and would have good late game production by having both cattle and the lambs. Still, I'm happy with the location I used. I'm not sure that even the start location would work out better in the long run.

Here's a screenshot of the region showing workers around Oslo aggressively improving the region in 1600BC. After improving Oslo's surroundings the workers would join Oslo:

 

[Wanderer]

13 GL's !!

How I rue my peaceful way! NO GL rushed wonder's ... Guess that just another one of the things I ned to learn, balancing several streams at once. I also noted that Eng and Russia lacked horses (and I think Russia lacked iron in my game, as well), yet I didn't really go after them (to afraid of the AI at this level, as well).

I did use the Cows to share - also potentially a mistake, as the 2nd of the 3 major mistakes I made - I never considered using workers to rush POP in the 20K, I was always using them to enshance the tiles, and the rest of the empire. *sigh*

And for all this, and the 3rd mistake of the ridiculous FP, I managed to win, albeit so late. Maybe there is hope, after all...

Sir-Pleb .. as always , I am in awe !

 

[EsatP]

PTW 1.21f Open

Goooood map.
I have 20000 Culture, and 10-12 turn 100000 Culture, 10-15 turn military, 1-2 turn - domination.

It is problem with mapstat. I try play whithout load or save, but after 40-45 turn? when i save and see 16 reloads. Why?

 

[smackster]

1.21f Open

Ancient Age Post

Middle Age Post

Left off in 1090AD effectively knocked out Russia, they do have one city on the other Continent. No rest as I now determine that I want a domination win, I think I only ever had one before on Regent level. So I turn my Cavalry around from attacking Russia and moved up to Greece.

Attack launched around 1210AD although Celts and Greece have MPP, and I notice some Rifles. They only have 6 cities the Vikings have about 46. This proved to be the period of the ill advised war, the defence was too strong I lost most of my Cavalry, many allies joined in but that didn't help much. Got another leader however. In reality I think I was very unlucky, I had Greek cities redlined on a few occasions but could never take any. Also I split the attack of 16 Cavlary thinking to take two early cities, whereas if I'd kept the stack together I would have probably taken one, or just waited until I had an overwhelming attack. My impatience lost me a lot of time.

After fighting them a little more and getting another GL eventually Greece went down when I got tanks in 1600AD (so I lost 400 years here). Got another GL Einar no.4 with the tank attacks.

In 1680 move on the Celts and soon cleared them off the mainland.

With spare troops Tanks were sent to the other continent, where we found our old friends the Russains and the Greeks mixed in with the Aztecs. In 1745AD Got rid of last Russian at last, 1752AD Greece gone, 1756AD Aztecs gone.

1758AD China declares war, how dare they, take a city of mine. Sink a transport, have to protect them now. Celts gone

To finish I waited for MA, although I think now I should have continued, not having got MA very often in Civ I miscalculated that I needed a resource on another tech tree to get them, and it took me another 8 turns or so to research that. Once I got MA, they went down pretty quick and the Domination was soon to follow.

I don't really know the best way to domination, clearly some work to do here, I just captured cities and rush built temples. I think I need clearer goals at the start , and probably built too much infrastructure when I should have been building Cavalry.

1846AD Domination win Firaxis 5821, Jason 5491

My third GOTM, second win, from now on I will try to win by the tourney goal.

Here is my first picture post



I never attacked England as I traded so much for them and felt that I could get more from trade than capture.

 

[Naboo]

To the Stars, part IIIa
Open class, V1.29b2 (Mac)

Wherein our scribe gets carried away...

Are the Vikings Spacing Out? THE DAILY HISTOGRAPH, 4000 B.C. (pregame)
Ancient History
Middle Ages

Some years after the French Conquest

Einar contemplated his visage in the glass. He hadn't felt quite right lately. He couldn't put his finger on it. By all accounts things were going well. The recent conquest of France, entry into a new age of progress, the acceleration of scientific achievement; all bid well for his ultimate goal of seeing the Vikings colonize Space.

Perhaps it was age. He was in good shape for a man over over 5,000 but lately he'd noticed a few gray hairs. To lift his spirits, Einar's wife had pursuaded Alexander to help "bring Einar out of the Middle Ages". The two men were barely on speaking terms, but Mrs. Ragnarson was a charming lady. Old animosities were temporarily forgotten as both leaders and their aides enjoyed the process of giving Einar a modern look. In the end the transformation was striking. Grooming tips, a new hairstyle, a suit of clothes from Alex's personal tailor…



"My husband, the Captain of Industry", exclaimed Mrs. Ragnarson!

Well, it had been a pleasant diversion and image was becoming increasingly important as his leadership role entailed ever more frequent diplomatic meetings. Yet, it hadn't been enough to dispel his somber mood. Perhaps he was still mourning the loss of his Father, Ragnars.

No… he'd come to peace with that. As he stood at the mirror he realized what it was. The Goal. He'd lost sight of it somehow. Once it had been an image of startling clarity in his mind. So strong it had given him faith to convince an entire nation. But, all of the wars, nonstop decision-making and the day-to-day worries of caring for a large and growing country had filled his thoughts to overflowing. He still believed in The Goal with all of his being, he just couldn't picture it in his mind. It was closer than ever, and yet so far away.

The morning light began to creep in over the hills of Nidaros, dimming the stars. As he walked out onto the balcony the sight of them disappearing seemed a bitter tincture of his feelings. He looked straight up into the Heavens, and there was a single point of light fiercely resisting the dawn. Brilliant, peach-hued. Einar hurried back into the study. Where was it? Ah, yes! In the large crate under the copy of the Magna Carta that Elizabeth had given him. A brass telescope he'd received when the Vikings had gained Astronomy.

A quick assembly of the instrument on the balcony. The morning star barely shown in the gathering daylight. Already he would not have seen it had he not fixed its location.

Einar found the 'star' in the telescope's field and adjusted the focus. There before him in its ringed splendor was Saturn. Around the magnificent planet he could see other stars; still just points of light -- even in this view. Einar took his eye away from the 'piece. In the sunlit sky there was only blue, and bird-flight. Through the 'scope he saw Saturn again -- bathed in its own dawn.

A sense of timelessness came over Einar. He studied Saturn long; his only awareness of the advancing day was the need to nudge the 'scope ever westward as the earth wheeled unendingly upon its axis. "What are you looking at?" - it was his wife. "Saturn", he explained. She looked a bit puzzled. "Let me see".

After a few moments she spoke: "It's out, even now. I guess I knew that, but seeing it in the daytime makes it more real somehow".

Their eyes met and as he nodded she knew he was finally right within himself once more. Ragnar took a last look. It was so far away. And yet so close.



Einar returned to his responsibilities with renewed vigor. More certain than ever.

In 1160 the time seemed right - War was declared on Russia. Einar instructed his generals to spare the citizens. "Keep the cities if at all possible. Let them join us as did the French. We'll serve Catherine justice and the combined resources and people of our lands will serve the future"

St. Petersburg was chosen as the first target. Moments after delcaring war it was learned that a stray worker had been toiling on Russian ground. Einar was flabbergasted to learn that this had been construed as a sneak attack. "Ah yes. The 'Pitchfork Gambit!", remarked military advisor Brennusar. The room rang with Viking laughter.

The light mood did not last long however. Russia had fortified her cities with riflemen. And, the cossacks proved a powerful counter. The storming force of over a half-dozen combined Galloglass, Cavalry and Musketmen came close, but the city held. It brought back memories of the first battle of Orleans, but at least then the enemy city had been taken! "I thought we had brought enough force", muttered Einar.

"Looks like we were fighting the last war, sir. We can still prevail but we'll need to storm them with larger groups of Cavalry. The age of the Galloglass is passing. First though, let them bring the battle to us. We'll defeat their best units from a position of strength and save our own for the push. Also, I recommend an alliance with Greece to open another front.". Einar knew he was right, but ally with Alexander? The leader had some good points but was not to be trusted. He was infamous by now for breaking deals. And surely Greece would end up with some Russian land. Not a comforting thought. But. Einar knew Brennusar was right. These Russians were more powerful than he'd hoped. And he did not want a protracted war.

Their improved relations appeared to still be holding and Alexander agreed to a "mutual protection pact" (for a price). They both knew what it really meant -- combined war against Catherine.

It played out much as envisioned. Vikings fell back to fortifications and picked off as many Russian troops as possible. Greece made some gains along the far western coast. Unfortunately, the small outposts of Sunlight and Mårs still remained in foreign hands. Russia had captured them from Greece.

Finally the Viking counterattack began. A mighty Cavalry division was dispatched and we were at last successful at St. Petersburg.



Wines were secured, which were to quickly gain popularity in the larger cities although of course, Mead was still the national drink. In the far south, Novogorod was captured.



A fine accquisition. Einar had wanted a land route to the west. Some day the Greeks might get too frisky. Finally, great effort was spent to capture Mårs and once again bring it under the Viking flag. Seeing Catherine's declining fortunes, Aztecs and America delcared war on her. The year was 1290.

"Perfect. We declare Peace!". This was against his advisor's advice. But there was much to attend to. Vikings had fallen behind in technology. And, more importantly, the lack of railroads was an increasing concern. Einar wanted to stop and build infrastructure while Russia was still strong enough to keep the other guys busy for awhile. Einar made sure the secrets of Steam Power were procured. Then, bad news. There was no coal in Viking lands. There was some close by, right outside of Corinth but Einar was not inclined to threaten Greece at this point. Too powerful. Besides, Vikings needed rails BEFORE any further battles. There was another coal deposit south of Moscow. Lastly, Greece had extra coal for sale.

Einar was not fond of feeding Greece's coffers but the path was clear. Arrange a 20-season deal with Greece for coal. Use it to fuel an all-out program of railroad building and have the infrastructure in place for the second conquest of Russia when that treaty expired. Capture of Moscow would net our own coal supply. According to our science advisor this would be essential for the further advances in productivity that were coming.

1390: The plan had run on greased rails. Despite an 8-season duration of anarchy as we installed a democratic government, our workers continued around the clock.



A high-speed transportation network was in place. War was declared as soon as the Russian peace treaty expired.

1395 Moscow taken as Greek Infantry advance. The coal on Moscow's outer borders is still under Russian control. Aztecs and America both take tundra cities.

1400 We capture Kiev and Yakutsk. Russia is crumbling. Odessa, the last major city, is now the capital. Size 3 Tblisi hangs on near the land bridge. No, we CANNOT attack via landbridge. Alexander has pulled a fast one and stationed a soldier on the choke. ROP or no, we can't go through HIM without declaring war on Greece! Down the hall Einar's secretaries could hear him swearing in the OLD language. It was enough to make Odin blush. They all decided it was time to go to lunch at TGI Thor'sday.



1410 The Americans take Tblisi and Vikings end Catherine's reign by capturing Odessa. The world is now at peace. Vikings now have Nationalism, Industrialization, Electricity and Medicine. Trading our resources is helping. Elizabeth is grateful for Iron and Horses. Furs to Greece and America. China is getting Saltpeter. Vikings begin what is hopefully an extended period of infrastructure catch-up and advancement. Territory gaps in former Russia are plugged with new settlements to discourage poaching.

1480 Mårs once again succumbs to Greek treachery and deposes its governor. The secretaries take a 3-hour lunch.

1510 America and Aztecs ally against world-leader China! England picks a fight with Mao as well. Einar can't believe his luck! China is strong and the free-for-all should keep his rivals busy. And, we are more than happy to continue supplying China with Saltpeter, and then Iron. "Quite allright -- only what you can afford, Mao. That's what friends are for!"

England declares peace rather quickly, while America and Aztecs continue the battle.

The pace of technological advance is slowing. Einar constantly reminds his staff that this is the time to BUILD BUILD BUILD! "THIS is our Golden Age, folks. Don't pay attention to those history books. I was THERE"!

1540 - Vikings are even in technology except for Amphibious War, which Greece and America seem to think they have mastered. As if. We lead China, England and Aztecs.

~1600 America and China finally declare peace. Aztecs fight on. The remaining technology of the age (Radio) is taking forever. That's fine with Einar. The secretaries hear him singing as he walks down the hallway. "Ti--I-I-Ime…. Is on our side… yes it iiis…"

"Yeah. Radio. Just what he needs."

1615 - Einar has seen this coming for a long time. Alexander launches a sneak attack with tanks. The lovely city of Moonlight falls and is razed! The speed of the attack takes Einar's breath away. Yet another new way of fighting.

Damages were more severe and quicker than expected. But Einar was not without a plan. Right of passage is negotiated with America. The pipsqueak Green defender on the landbridge is removed and our forces have instant access to every city on the front. Elizabeth is contacted. Thanks to our long and profitable trade arrangements she is only too happy to oblige. We ally against Greece. "Arg! That should take care of 'im". "Indeed. Warm your cupper"?

"Um… sir?" It was his trade advisor. A quiet and often unhappy person, Einar had noted. He'd brought her along to help her meet people and get her out of her shell.

"Oh yes. Please try some. Earl Gray Davis, they call it. Don't know how much longer it will be available.

"Well, actually sir… you might like to consider…"

"Yes. I know. We should 'acquire more resources and luxuries'. Hey, why don't you list Tea on your ledger? It's quite good".

"Actually sir, it's about the Greeks"

"Yes?"

"Well, you see… it appears from aerial photos… they have only one source of Oil. And, um… I don't think they can replace it. And… well… it's in Mycenae -- the lone Greek city on the tip of this islan... Um… England. Sorry your Highness".



"Not at all young lady. What excellent news! We shall dispatch our forces at once."

"Your Majesty, if you wouldn't mind terribly, I would be more than happy to have my forces use our right of passage agreement for the sole purpose of ensuring success at Mycenae. I assure you they will tread lightly." Einar was getting good at this diplomacy thing.

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by EsatP
PTW 1.21f Open

Goooood map.
I have 20000 Culture, and 10-12 turn 100000 Culture, 10-15 turn military, 1-2 turn - domination.

It is problem with mapstat. I try play whithout load or save, but after 40-45 turn? when i save and see 16 reloads. Why?

What do you mean exactly? You can open mapstat without closing of civ3, if you're worried about your number of reloads.
Just save the game and press the windows key and then locate mapstat and open it.
I always have mapstat running alongside civ on my computer when I'm in the later stages of my game and approaching the domination limit.

 

[Dianthus]

1.21 (Euro) Open

Spoiler 1 : Ancient Times (4000BC to 110BC)
Spoiler 2 : Middle Ages (110BC to 1395AD)
Spoiler 3a : Industrial Ages (1395AD to 1874AD)

At the end of Spoiler 2 my minimap looked like this :


War with England (on/off till 1814AD)
At the end of Spoiler 2 I couldn't decide which Civ to take on next. I was reticent to take on America/China as they had a much better navy than me, so I didn't think I could get enough units across. I eventually settled on England, though I took so much time moving my troops from 1 half of my continent to the other half and back again (England held the land-bridge) that it gave England enough time to get Infantry. I started this war by making a ROP deal with England and moving lots of Cavalry next to 3 of the English cities, another example of my unusual (for me) treachery this game . England fell fairly slowly, with me resorting to using Artillery when my overwelming Cavalry numbers started to dwindle. I made peace with England a couple of times to gain gold/techs, then immediately continued. I finally got another leader in 1752AD. I was only a couple of turns from the Hoover Dam at this point, and as there were no other wonders to aim for I saved this one for the UN.

Funny Russian death (1758AD)
I had a little chuckle at the Russians in 1756AD. They signed an alliance with America against China, which seemed a little foolish given the position of their only city :

China took Russia's last remaining city the next turn!

Tidying up Celts (1776AD), Greeks (1814AD)
Towards the end of the English war I finished off the Celts/Greeks. Both of these went extremely easily, having just Pikemen for defence.

War with China (starts 1824AD)
Towards the end of the war with England China joined in and took some of the English cities. I took these back off China and then made peace. They still had some troops in my territory, and declared war on me again when I demanded they leave. I got America to ally with me again by trading them Rubber. I had used trading of Rubber to America a number of times, but it was only now that I realised what that meant and took a closer look at the Rubber locations in the East. On finding only 2 locations I decided these would be my 1st point of attack. By this point I had been able to build some Battleships, which I used to bombard one of the sources of Rubber to disconnect it. I was soon able to build tanks too, and started building them at a high rate (~10-20 per turn!). Towards the end of the Industrial Ages I had landed on the island containing the 2nd source of Rubber and taken a couple of cities, and taken the city with the 1st source of rubber. These 3 Chinese cities fell so easily with tanks compared to the English cities with Cavalry . The war with China would continue, though I was starting to think I would need to be careful of my territory size. Currently I am 288 tiles from the domination limit, so don't have to worry too much yet.

Here's my minimap in 1874AD :


Culture
I managed to build a number of great/small wonders during this period:

1580AD : Military Academy
1675AD : Theory of Evolution
1760AD : Hoover Dam
1766AD : Heroic Epic
1786AD : Battlefield Medicine
1808AD : Wall Street
1820AD : Intelligence Agency

These improved my predicted 20K date to 1930AD.


I have completed/submitted this game, but I'll save the Modern Times post till a little later (I was expecting Spoiler 3 to be the Industrial Ages!).

[Edit: See here for my Spoiler 3b post]