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Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Spoonwood, Oct 25, 2008.

  1. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    It's all about the Pentiums... er SGLs. I played a Deity 20k game on a standard sized map as The Byzantines. My opponents? The Zulu, The Mongols, The Arabs, and Japan. In *this* game I didn't want any industrious tribes so that 1. they couldn't start on The Pyramids early and 2. they couldn't develop their land... as industrious tribes often have a tendency to develop quickly. For the same reason there's no one agricultural. I didn't want anyone scientific to slow the tech pace down. I didn't want anyone commercial or seafaring so I could pop an SGL on Writing, as well as for other reasons really. Also, since we have every *cheap* tech on the table from the get-go an SGL until they spend the commerce for Masonry or *gasp* actually research a second-level tech. The problem with this set-up, though as I found out, comes as that Arabia and Japan can research Mysticism and get started on The Oracle. 80% archipelago, wet, warm, 3 billion.

    So, I searched for a start for a while. After discarding a bunch for a while (I do use MapStat in game, I don't use MapFinder for starts)... some of which might have worked well, I found a start which had three cows after I moved my worker and a fourth once I founded Constantinople. It looked good, but I kind of felt concerned as I only had one hill. I *did* have several bonus grasslands and three forests. Looking back and thinking over this, the forests help a lot. Unless I had sugar, a luxury, or gold in a hill, a forest works better for this sort of game in depotism since I don't need to develop it. Consequently, I can add in workers as soon as I want, to get production up quickly. A turn off The Colossus gives me 3 culture a turn sooner, *and* then at the 1000 *year* bonus gives me 6 culture. The 1000 *year* bonus then happens over a period of more time since turns drop from 50 years per turn at the start to 40 years or whatever and so on. See why an early SGL can make such a difference for this game? In the same vein a temple or library before a wonder (as long as you can get it) I'd expect would make more sense (though I haven't done the calculations). Also, this hopefully helps anyone... including myself... get over that queasy feeling of having a despotic golden age in a 20k game. Who cares if you have less shields going towards a wonder, as long you have an older wonder sooner, right?

    Hence, Spain also makes for a good choice for a fast upper-level 20k game... *fast* temple, coastal start for The Colosuss... think of it a cheap version of J. S. Bach's really, it gives you extra happiness via commerce early on at least, and it produces 6 culture for much of the game. On top of this the extra commerce surely has to help to speed your science rate up, which you want for the next wonder and a chance at an SGL. Even though I really had so much extra production that before I got Shakespeare's Theater, I had every tile producing at least 2 shields per turn (the hill tile didn't) *and* still had about 5 extra food in the box. I think I had 26 shields at size 12 pre-Republic and 27 shields post-republic. Maybe 28. Oh drat... post-game I loaded from a save and forested a cow, which I hadn't done in game. I could have had three shields for those cow tiles instead of 2 once I got into The Republic. That's 30 shields, implying that 20 turn build on Bach's and Sistine. So, now I and you know a way to possibly better this game (of course you can't beat those SGLs, as they give you an early Shakespeare's Theater... culture-wise, you know which wonders you want, right?).

    As something I find fun since I irrigated all 4 cows I had 2 turn growth without a granary from size 5 to 6, if not 4 to 5 also. Play as agricultural, start on a river, and you'll only need three food bonuses. Tech-wise I went Writing, Philosophy-Literature as freebie, CoL, The Republic, Currency and traded/got the rest from The Great Library, then something like Monotheism, Theology, Education, Astronomy, Banking, Printing Press, Music Theory, Democracy, Free Artistry (4 turns), Chemistry, Navigation (I ran out of builds, built a harbor and then pre-built Magellan's, which I used as a pre-build for Newton's, and then I built Magellan's), Physics, Theory of Gravity, Magnetism, traded for Metallurgy, got Nationalism as my free tech, Economics (or did I do it sooner?), Steam Power, Industrialization, and so on.

    In the games I've played like this so far I've often not liked my research rate... meaning I get worried about not having the capital producing culture at some point. So, instead of training a curragh and then some workers, I had my capital spit out a settler. Then it spit out a worker. Then it went
    Building-date completed
    Palace-4000 BC
    The Colossus-2070 BC
    The Pyramids-1450 BC-I had started on The Oracle, but Arabia beat me to it... so I switched to The Pyramids... it's more expensive than The Oracle, but after this game if I have to pick one for a 20k game I think I'll pick this, since I have a late expansion phase.
    Library-1400 BC
    Temple-1325 BC
    Great Lighthouse-1025 BC
    Museum of Mausollos-825 BC
    Great Library-510 BC
    Hanging Gardens-190 BC
    Cathedral-170 BC I had sold some medieval tech to get cash for this and keep research up... I drew Feudalism as my free middle age tech.
    Sistine Chapel-270 AD
    University-280 AD
    Coloseeum-290 AD
    Copernicus's Observatory-440 AD
    Shakespeare's Theater-610 AD
    J. S. Bach's Cathedral-620 AD
    Newton's University-750 AD
    Magellan's Voyage-870 AD
    Smith's Trading Company-1000 AD
    Universal Suffrage-1100 AD
    Theory of Evolution-1170 AD
    Wall Street-1210 AD
    Hoover's Dam-1275 AD
    Intelligence Agency-1300 AD
    Battlefield Medicine-1330 AD
    United Nations-1410 AD
    Research Lab-1415 AD
    The Internet-1470 AD
    SETI-1485 AD
    The Cure for Cancer-1535 AD
    The Apollo Program-1560 AD
    Longevity-1570 AD
    Finish Date-1600 AD

    I popped SGLs on Free Artistry, Genetics, and Ecology. I used them for J. S. Bach's Cathedral (after I finished Shakespeare's Theater), SETI (even though I had already put some shields into this, I deicded to finish it quicker, since I was near the end), and Longevity... which I wouldn't have gotten to build otherwise. Maybe some screenies later.
     
  2. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    A screenie of the start and the finish. The Mongols managed to get two cities on my island before I could fill it up. I had quite a good-sized island... no doubt it worked out to my benefit as I could research faster. I traded for Replacable Parts in the Industrial Age, and sold tech for gpt much of the way. I thought about The Heroic Epic and had some units for it, so I tried to whack The Mongols. I exterminated them before I got a leader. I thought about mounting an invasion for one, but the Zulu lay closest and they gave me more gpt than anyone else, so I forgot about it.
     
  3. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Can I post a save here before the HOF staff checks things out?
     
  4. Aerinon

    Aerinon Monarch

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    Well played. :hatsoff: Was it C3C Deity or Vanilla/PTW Deity? Congrats on a spot in the table either way. As for your other question, :dunno:
     
  5. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    C3C Deity. You don't have as many wonders in PTW and I think Shakespeare's Theater gives you less culture than in C3C.
     
  6. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    a PTW game I would play very differently - I'd probably run a pangea and spend 90% of the game at war.
     
  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    So, I played another 20k Deity game on a standard map. Same opponents as before. I shopped around with quite a few starts actually. I deicded to play as Portugal. My thinking? Well, that varied a bit. At first I thought I would go curragh and some workers. Also, since I would have an instand golden age from The Colossus and most of those shields come in pre-size 7, it would work out easier to find starts... I didn't need a whole lot of bonus grassland or food bonuses, since the instant golden age would give me two shields in every mined square. I had a decent one going where I ended up getting whacked early one. I figured out that I could short-rush the curragh by scouting a bit and then disbanding the scout. I also tried putting barbarians on sedentary and then popping a settler from the hut with the scout two or so times. I didn't get it to happen. I had a really good one with 4 cows, a river, some bonus grassland, I had a second city with two wheats of its own (I built the settler, no barbarians in that one), and my *granary* pre-build would finish before I had any contacts. I had researched Writing at the minimum rate. So, I canned it and decided I would research Bronze Working myself if I got a start I really liked.

    The one I ended up playing had a lake, not a whole lot of bonus grasslands, 3 or so forests, one with *ivory* in them, 2 cows and 2 wheats on grassland... no hills. 4 food bonuses on grassland, all irrigated in despotism, gives you 10 food per turn. Lisbon went settler, worker, worker and then granary pre-build which changed into The Colossus. I researched Bronze Working myself, since unless I had a nasty neighbor too early one I decided I wouldn't give this one up. I think I had 26 or 27 shields in my early golden-age, and then 22 at size twelve with several extra food bonuses.

    The AIs didn't have much money until a few turns after they got Banking. They also didn't research Engineering for quite sometime, so I couldn't forest all the tiles I wanted to. I think I had 27 shields after foresting. I know I didn't have many more after Shake's. I only had two extra tiles avaible for production (and the lake) after Shake's. I couldn't trade for coal even after I gifted all the AIs up. I had plenty of other island territory I could have grabbed, but I didn't. One of them would have gotten me coal. So, I had a relatively slower build on Universal Suffrage and Theory of Evolution.

    The Mongols declared war early on, and landed some units. I whacked them with Ancient Cavalry and tried for The Heroic Epic. I didn't have any success. After a while they asked for peace and since they had two luxuries and I didn't have much cash to short-rush the colosseum and cathedral, I made peace and decided to use the ancient cavalry to short-rush them. I traded for plenty of luxuries, and that worked out nicely.
    I tried for a war with them later on for The Heroic Epic, but they barely even tried to attack my rifle stack. I gave up a few turns from the finish knowing it wouldn't take time off my game finish date.

    The rundown:

    Palace-4000 BC
    Colossus-1950 BC
    Pyramids-1475 BC
    Museum of Mausollos-1250 BC
    Library-1150 BC
    Statue of Zeus-900 BC
    Temple-825 BC
    Great Lighthouse-530 BC
    Great Wall-250 BC
    Great Library-260 AD
    Cathedral-340 AD
    Colosseum-350 AD
    Sistine Chapel-650 AD
    Copernicus's Observatory-800 AD
    University-820 AD
    J.S. Bach's Cathedral-1040 AD
    Shakespeare's Theater-1210 AD
    Newton's Universit-1295 AD
    Smith's Trading Company-1390 AD
    Universal Suffrage-1480 AD
    Wall Street-1515 AD
    Theory of Evolution-1585 AD
    Battlefield Medicine-1640 AD
    Research Lab-1745 AD
    Intelligence Agency-1758 AD
    Finish Date-1766, 20k in Lisbon.
     
  8. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I played a Sid 20k game on a standard map with The Byzantines against Arabia, The Zulu, The Mongols, and Japan. I had one goal in mind: to win. Sanabas comes as the only person on this table so far. Arabia declared war on me at some point in the ancient age which sparked a 1000 some year war where I bombarded their galleys. They landed like 2 units and never really posed a threat. I built the Great Lighthouse as a means of protection against the AIs coming over to my shores. This enabled me to have every luxury but one hooked up from the end of the ancient age, so I didn't really need temples or cathedral. But, I had read about some of Sanabas's Sid games and he mentioned that he might lose to the 100k in one of them. So, what did I do? I built temples, cathedrals, and even colosseums. Arabia didn't really get close to the 100k condition, they had about 74, the Zulu about 51, and myself about 48 at games end.

    I didn't go out and settle other islands. I tried to at one point (far too late), so that I would have coal. I went out too late and missed it and never could trade for Japan's coal. I got a worker pump up very late and really played quite lazily with the rest of my empire than the 20k city. In the industrial age I worried about an attack (paranoia), so I put explorers to good use (think island block). It didn't matter... no one tried to land units. The AIs seemed to choke on unit support quite early, and the tech cost comes out quite high (as well as corruption) apparently at this level, so I didn't make it to the modern age. Arabia had 40% of the land by games end... a few turns before this, they decided to declare war on Japan. I got a little concerned, but they only took one Japanese city so far as I could tell and made peace soon after. I couldn't really sell tech for gpt, except for a few exceptions. Japan *never* made contact with The Mongols. I didn't aim for The Heroic Epic. Perhaps more militaristic Sid games play more interestingly, but most of my Deity and Demi-God games came out far more interesting than this one... well Emperor and Monarch also. I didn't have cash from gpt or anything, and early on I didn't want to disband ACs, so I hand-built many of the non-wonder buildings. I managed to trade for Ivory and build the Statue of Zeus with Japan, even though I had no native sources. As I said before... the tech pace went *slowly*. I don't think I even entered The Middle Ages until after 1 AD. I drew Engineering and foresty got my capital up to 29 shields, which had 4 cows and a river *s*. The rundown:

    Palace-3950 BC
    Colossus-2510 BC (no curragh, no worker, no settler, I went straight for this off the bat)
    Temple-1675 BC
    Library-1250 BC
    Museum of Mausollos-1000 BC
    Lighthouse-730 BC
    Great Library-410 BC
    Statue of Zeus-10 AD (I don't think Japan even had Maths when I finished this)
    Colosseum-130 AD
    Cathedral-360 AD
    Sistine Chapel-680 AD
    University-700 AD
    Cope's-900 AD
    Bach's-1110 AD
    Shake's-1260 AD
    Newton's-1325 AD
    Smith's-1425 AD
    U.S.-1530 AD
    TOE-1630 AD
    Hoover's-1715 AD
    Wall Street-1740 AD
    Intelligence Agency-1760 AD
    Battlefield Medicine-1776 AD
    Finish-1812 AD

    Not a single SGL.
     
  9. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Was this your first SID game? congrats!!

    It's kind of funny - on an arch map, the AI is no threat at all on SID, until bombers - then they are a pain in the ass.

    Thing about SID is that sometimes, you go for collosus right off and STILL don't get it.

    Other thing about SID 20K games is that you are nearly forced to play 80% water maps, which makes invasions of SID homelands to go leader fishing close to impossible - literally. It's not uncommon for every tile to be 3-4 deep in spears and archers on SID.

    And, of course, you land your stack of rifles and they are gone in a turn....
     
  10. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Thanks. I've played a little Sid before, but never finished one. Two of which I think I might have won, but just stopped playing for some strange reason. I played Sanabas's standard sized 20k game map for a bit until the Japanese landed on my shores and started attacking me early on, and I quit there. *laughs* about The Colossus thing... with a 40% cost reduction, I can see that. The AIs built The Pyramids and The Oracle rather quickly in my game. Interestingly enough, I checked some of the Sid HoF games. I think I had more wonders than many of them, but many of them built The Heroic Epic and rather early, so they had faster finish dates than I did. After all, The Heroic Epic is Shakespeare's Theater in a 20k game, right?
     
  11. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I think you build Shakespeare's pretty late in the game, actually. In the large Sid gauntlet, both chamnix and I got shakes earlier - chamnix 400, me 700 - and that makes a huge difference.

    Heroic Epic is nice, but its really hard to get - if you have an AI on your island, you might as well restart, and by the time you are ready to invade, they are close to invulnerable.
     
  12. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Well, maybe you've seen it already, and I don't know how he did it, but SpiffyKeen played on a tiny pangea map and won in 1802 by the 20k condition. I missed checking times of Shake's, you've probably hit the nail on the head there. I had a slow research pace.
     
  13. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I think Spiffy went with the "kill the AI so they can't get wonders with cascade's" method.

    There is a lot of room for improvement of SID 20K times - the best is a HUGE map game, which is pretty remarkable.
     
  14. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    The Legend of Alcobaca:

    So, I thought I would go for a Deity spaceship standard map game, since that table looks pretty empty. I also thought I'd go for a lower level 100k, since I've never done one of those before. But, I haven't gotten to either yet, and instead proceeded with another Deity 20k game. Of course, after the Golf gauntlet game, I decided on Portugal.

    I liked the start, but didn't really think it good enough for a HoF game. I decided to play a bit for fun, especially when in 3900 BC I had this happen:


    Can't argue with that now, can you? I founded Oporto in 3750 on the bonus grassland. Multiple sources of ivory, 3 cows, a settler in 3900 BC, that's great. Unfortunately, Lisbon... which I eventually renamed as The Legend of Alcobaca... only had 25 shields at size 12 in The Republic. So, I didn't think I would beat my Byzantine game. On top of that, my original curragh sunk on its first suicide run... so I *almost* quit the game. But, I didn't. I switched Lisbon to another curragh from its granary pre-build, which didn't sink. I also realized I might pop BW from some of the huts on my island. I didn't. I popped CB. A little later my curragh suicide out along another route, and eventually meet three of my rivals: The Celts, The Japanese, and The Romans.

    I couldn't find The Aztecs without more sucide runs, so I expected them as the weakest of the four and didn't worry about them. It turned out that had such a bad game, that when I got my rifles onto their island to spawn an MGL... and they didn't attack me all too much, we soon had a tank-spear war for a while, and then they had some muskets a bit into that. Even with tanks it took me a good long while to spawn an MGL. After that I exterminated them. Anyways, that came at the end of the game. In 875 BC my empire looked like this:


    Besides the ivory near Lisbon, the spices you can see in the jungle, the gems on the mountain, I've got Guimares founded on top of gems, *and* I've got three sources of wines up further north. Four luxuries and multiples sources of them, on a rather large island, fairly far away from the AIs for quite a long time. Nope, I didn't use MapFinder to find *this* map, I just lucked out. You can see me researching Currency in that screenshot. Earlier I had researched Writing at maximum (far less than 50 turns, since I had a second city), I finished The Colossus in 2030 BC after I finished Writing, and had pulled off The Republic slingshot. I had built The Oracle, and had a build going on The Pyramids earlier, which the Celts beat me to, at which point I managed to trade for Map Making and cascaded to The Great Lighthouse. When I learned Currency, I popped my first SGL which I used on The Termple of Artemis. I didn't pop Construction or Currency from a hut, but I made it into the middle ages rather quickly. By 30 AD my empire looked like this:


    Yeah, that's quite an island. Things went on swimmingly really. I had Oporto pumping out settlers and workers for a very, very long time, and another strictly worker pump at Guimares since it had two cows nearby. I didn't get lazy this game (though maybe I should have risked going for The Heroic Epic earlier). Some of the ancient cavalry got used to speed up the improvements in Lisbon, as I called it at that time. I popped an SGL on Music Theory, and sometime after that screenshot, I got some cities up on some other islands, which eventually turned into specialist farms. After seeing one of my city names as Alcobaca for a bit, I remembered an excellent piece The Concord Blue Devils once played a little of, and I've heard elsewhere called The Legend of Alcobaca. I renamed Lisbon accordingly. By 1000 AD my empire looked like this:



    Research really went on swimmingly. I think The Corporation took me but 4 turns to research. At one point I traded for Nationalism from The Celts with Electricity so they would get me Replacable Parts and they did so. When I learned Combustion I got them it, so they would research me Flight. After taking I think 9 turns to research Mass Production and Motorized Transportation, I ended up researching the entire tech of Flight myself. The Celts did get me Espionage in the meantime though.

    I think I popped an SGL on Sanitation, and I think later on two successive techs... I think Mass Production and Motorized Transportation. I researched Fission, Computers, and Miniturization, and realized I wouldn't get to Genetics before the game ended. I somehow forgot that I could build a research lab when I learned Fission, so I built the research lab 2-4 turns later than I could have. I didn't assimilate the Aztecs, once I got my MGL, and had a tank army victory, I razed and replaced their spearman palaces. I had decided to try and set up more specialist farms there, but I didn't have time since I had gotten my culture up so fast. I had 150 cpt by the game's end and at that time my empire looked like this:



    The rundown of The Legend of Alcobaca:

    Palace-3950 BC
    Temple-2800 BC
    Colossus-2030 BC
    Oracle-1625 BC
    Lighthouse-1275 BC
    Library-1125 BC
    Museum of Mausollos-900 BC
    Statue of Zeus-710 BC
    Temple of Artemis-690 BC (SGL 1)
    Hanging Gardens-450 BC
    Colosseum-430 BC
    Great Library-110 BC
    Cathedral-70 BC (not enough cash for a single turn)
    Sistine Chapel-310 AD
    University-370 AD (yeah, not enough cash, nor enough ACs to disband)
    Copernicus's Observatory-530 AD
    J. S. Bach's Cathedral-540 AD (SGL 2)
    Shakespeare's Theater-720 AD
    Newton's University-860 AD
    Universal Suffrage-1070 AD
    Theory of Evolution-1180 AD
    Hoover's Dam-1190 AD (SGL 3)
    Wall Street-1265 AD
    Battlefield Medicine-1300 AD
    Intelligence Agency-1345 AD
    United Nations-1410 AD (SGL 4)
    Manhattan Project-1415 AD (SGL 5)
    Heroic Epic-1445 AD
    Military Academy-1465 (MGL rush)
    Research Lab-1470 AD (probably should have had in 1450 AD, but oh well)
    Finish-1525 AD.

    That crushes my Byzantine record for a standard map (maybe someone submitted a better one this month, we don't have the update yet), and the only faster 20k game on Deity came on a tiny map by Killercane who won in 1485 AD. The Portuguese a weak choice for an upper level 20k game??? I think not.
     
  15. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Looking at my screenshots, maybe I should consider settling up specialist farms in anything beyond my second ring in *this sort* of game. Sure, I can use a courthouse (maybe a police station also) and get good science eventually there, since they don't lie too far away, but it might take too long, so that it might work out better to set up farms. In other types of games though, those cities have a little more time.
     
  16. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    After all those upper level games I scaled things back... all the way back to Cheiftain. I decided on the Celts on a tiny map with Greece (I forgot about hoplites, but it didn't matter) and the Ottomans as my opponents for a 100k game. I haven't played any of these before, but I did look around and look at some sample games. I thought it would take a *very* long time to play. It actually played in probably less time than my 20k games. I figured I could make it onto the table by beating the 1802 AD 10th finish spot.

    I researched Alphabet, Writing, CoL, Philosophy-Literature. I think I popped an SGL in there, or maybe at Mysticism. I had a pre-build going on for the Temple of Artemis before this with I think The Oracle, but when I got that, I swapped my pre-build to the Forbidden Palace and built the Temple of Artemis somewhere else. I didn't build The Pyramids... other culture seemed more important. After I had gotten close to 48% of the tiles or so, I decided to whack The Ottomans. I didn't need to, I had plenty of other land I could settle before getting near 66%, but they had gems and I didn't, so I used a *few* knights to assimilate them.

    I stopped research at Chivalry. I didn't research Invention. I mainly used knights as my disband unit to speed up buildings, but later thought Gallic Swordsman as the better choice. I had a decent sized work crew, which initially mined some tiles in my core, and then irrigated a lot everywhere else. When that seemed near completion, I had my work crew forest and then chop for those ten extra shields several times. I aimed for 60% of the land settled, that way I didn't think culutral expansion would put me over the domination limit. I ended up with a little more than 62% of the territory. I didn't have a standing army really. Most of the games turns went really fast, except when...

    Well, playing as religious I would revolt to Feudalism from The Republic every few turns. On the turn I entered the Feudal soceity, I would go through all my cities and basically pop-rush as much as I could (except the first time I did this, I think). Short-rush a barracks, then a granary, then a courthouse, and then the colosseum or whatever (all on the same turn). If I had to stop at the granary, I'd do that. If I couldn't pop-rush a barracks right away, then a pike or galley or something like that. If not a pike, then an archer or something to get some shields in from population. After I did that for all my towns that turn I would immediately re-revolt (before finishing the turn) back to The Republic so that I could save a little on cash, as I've read people have had problems with that. I did that like 4 or 5 times I think. I didn't end up having cash problems (I had markets *eventually* in my "core" towns), and bought some improvements, so I guess I handled that well :).

    At one point I couldn't see all that many tiles and MapStat kept given me weird info. about reaching the domination limit, so I took a galley out and a gallic out and "pushed back the black" as I like to think of it. I sort of started off in a corner... but I think the replay indicated I had some 4 or 5 towns before the AIs even built a second one (Entremont went granary-settler, no warriors). I had barbs on sedentary and I think I got a tech or two from a hut. By the end of the game I had some 925 culture per turn. I also had Entremont at size 12, working as many tiles as it could. In 1080 AD Entremont announced the burial of the game by finishing The Museum of Mausollos (my only other wonder than The Temple of Artemis), as I stumbled over the 60,000 culture threshold.
     
  17. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    for what it's worth... on chieftain, there is no penalty for running out of money, so you really didn't need to jump to republic.
     
  18. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    So, I decided to play an Emperor small 20k game. I thought about going archipelago, but I ended up deciding on pangea. Since, I prefer to pop a settler and have my capital build nothing but workers and culture as much as it can, and scientific gives me a greater probability of SGLs as well as free techs, I decided on Russia. I played against Germany, Sumeria, and The Babylonians. I forgot about the coastal site. It's probably more poweful to play on a coastal site, but you can always play this game different ways. I got Theology as my free tech in the middle ages. Steam Power in the industrial age, and Ecology in the modern age. I had 10 or so cities and the Babs attacked me and took 4 or 5 of my cities. Thankfully, I signed an alliance with Sumeria, and the Babs left me alone. I ended up with 5 cities at games end in 1590 with 20,000 culture in Moscow. Maybe more later.
     
  19. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,875
    Location:
    Ohio
    Other than some of the 20k tables, one table caught my eye. The Deity Space race table for standard maps. Surprising to me it only had two entries on it at the last update (do I smell a gauntlet coming for this table?). Tone's date of 1260 AD and soxfan2003 date of 2010 AD. I played for second place without any illusions of topping Tone's date. Why, you ask? Well, I had checked Tone's saves and it seemed that he had grabbed *a lot* of territory (for a pangea map at this level especially). He didn't have The Great Library, and I can't say I've felt all too comfortable trading at this level in the ancient age in the past, so I didn't expect to move as fast there. On top of this, he had the Pyramids in his capital, which seems to imply an early SGL. I thought about trying for that, but decided I didn't want to play that many starts before I got going.

    I decided to play a start where I had a cow and a river on a wet, warm, 5 billion year old map. I played part of a similar game *not* for the HoF earlier as Sumeria where I used Overseer's lineup of playing all the other scientific tribes, except for the Greeks. I did the same here, with the setting on Least Aggression. I had Mapfinder find me 10 acceptable maps, one of them looked like this:



    Of course I couldn't pass that up. I didn't train any scouts initially, I went straight for the granary. I decided that other than the settler factory in Ur, I'd set up worker pumps, so I irrigated all the food available, and I let Ur grow to size 5 instead of slowing it down (via a forest) and finishing the granary before it got to size 5. So, Ur spit out a worker and then settlers every 4 turns for a while. Since I wanted worker pumps, I founded a city within Ur's radius. The map seemed worse when I had a Korean city close to the north and a Byzantine city up north. It seemed better when I got another cow down south and another wheat in the southeast of Ur. I did a good old 50 turn min run on Alphabet and planned on The Great Library to catch up in tech. With something like 40 turns left on Writing, I had 4 contacts with two of them having Writing. I think I had already bought Ceremonial Burial via straight cash. Here I pulled a nice n-fer, as I bought Writing, traded it around for some techs carefully. And then traded those techs on the same turn. I wish I had a list for more detail, but I think I can say I picked up Masonry, Bronze Working, The Wheel, Warrior Code, Mysticism, Polytheism, Philosophy, Map Making, Mathematics, Iron Working, and I think Horseback Riding also all on that turn and got some nice lump sums of gold in the process also. So, I thought about an early Forbidden Palace instead of The Great Library.

    I think I took a risk in a way in that I had Sumer, which lay near a Korean town, build the Forbidden Palace instead of a temple first to prevent a flip. While building the Forbidden Palace, I realized that I didn't need many more settlers for my ReX, and since I had some settlers come from my core towns, I took Ur off of settlers, and I joined some workers to it. Since Sumer had already hit size 7, even though it had a granary, I decided it wouldn't become a worker pump and since I had so much food around Sumer, I decided Ur would get the food bonuses and produce The Great Library or something. In 1200 BC I had The Forbidden Palace in Sumer, and Ur completed The Mauseloum of Mausollos. With that tourist attraction, I planned on putting Cope's and Newton's in Ur. Around then I traded/bought Construction, Currency, and Code of Laws entering the Middle Ages a little behind someone. I got Engineering as my free tech, which someone else already knew. But, I gifted someone else up, and got Monotheism soon enough. I couldn't trade for Feudalism initially and I had to wait a bit on that. By 1000 BC my empire looked like this:



    A bit tighter than I like usually, but I don't like to have tiles that I won't use eventually, so things get tight at the borders and sometimes elsewhere. Also, if you can't see in the screenshot, I have Ur buliding The Great Library, and I'm researching Theology. I've still got a despotic government here, as I waited for the AIs to research The Republic. Why The Great Library? Well, I wanted The Hanging Gardens, but someone else built it and since I decided not to waste shields at this point I thought The Great Library would provide another decent tourist attraction. I didn't shut research off, but it did end up yielding me Invention, Chivalry (I think), Gunpowder, and Education a little earlier than if I had not had it.

    When I learned Education Ur was on The Sistine Chapel. Since it seemed either I would finish that and possibly miss Cope's, or use it as a pre-build for Cope's if I researched Astronomy... since Banking seemed like it would take too long or something... I researched Astronomy at full tilt (without losing money) and bought the last bit of it, overbuilding Cope's, but not really caring since I had it. After that I went for Chemistry, which I think I partiallly bought from Hammy. Then Physics, which I think I got to first (maybe not though), then Theory of Gravity, which I partially bought from Hammy, and then Magnetism which I partially bought from Hammy. My 10 AD save indicates I have 5 luxuries (which I know become 4 a bit later, as I got riots), +17 gpt from the Byzantines, +20 gpt from Persia, +9 gpt from the Ottomans, -79 gpt to the Babylonians, +30 gpt total from the Germans, -15 gpt to the Koreans, with me doing 50% sci. 10% lux. 40% tax, researching Theory of Gravity due in 11 turns neither making nor losing money over. I think I had 40 or 30% science without making much while going for Magnetism. The Koreans got to Banking first. I had to lower the sci. slider to 0% or 10%, buy some of those techs, then raise it up a few ticks to whatever I could while still making like 2 gold per turn in the high medieval period. I used Bach's a pre-build on Newton's in Ur, while I had a palace pre-build in Sumer for Bach's, both of which I got. Once I got some nice temples and cathedrals up, that changed. Those came via cash-rush, after what I consider the gamebreaker deal that I had immediately after I bought the last bit of Magnetism:



    With that I cash-rushed in those temples and cathedrals soon enough, and later cash-rushed in some hospitals. After gifting AIs up and trading, I went Industrialization-Sanitation-Electricity-Scientific Method and so on. The AIs started warring against each other around here and I got to watch some of it. I sold Industrialization when I learned it, as Persia gave me a massive gpt deal. I didn't have coal and couldn't trade for it right away, so after chopping some forests which I had created via my work crew and getting hospitals in, I started irrigating for specialists, except around Ur. I thought I might still build Universal Suffrage, but since Ur didn't really have time to build a temple and a cathedral, I though I might use Universal Suffrage as a pre-build on Shake's, while letting the AIs research Free Artistry for me. It also wouldn't need a hospital, and Ur could work all those tiles for more science. Sure enough, The Germans had a monopoly on Free Artistry, I traded for it, I over-built with I think 3 turns left on Universal Suffrage, and I think the Babs finished Universal Suffrage the next turn. Then came Theory of Evoultion, taking the usual duo of techs.

    I had a build on Hoover's Dam going on in Ur, when I learned Refining. I got coal somewhere around here once someone had an extra supply, and around this time Korea got pulzerized. I founded some 4 or so cities in the wake of the aftermath. Towns I used to good effect later:



    Even though the AIs had The Corporation, due to their warring or something, I managed to beat them to it and I popped my first and lone SGL here. After coming back from a break here, I realized I didn't want to bulid Hoover's Dam. The AIs almost surely wouldn't get to, or at least finish Hoover's Dam by the time I entered the modern age. I decided on Hoover's Dam as a pre-build. For the first round, I thought someone might finally research Economics and I could get Smith's to ease the cash burden... and it happened and I got. Then I would use it again as a pre-build for SETI. When I learned Combustion I hoped the AIs would get me Flight, so even though they didn't have Refining yet even, I got Persia and The Byzantines (the Babs seemed to lag too much in tech at this point, and they didn't have cash really) Combustion, hoping they would get me Flight before I finished Motorized Transportation. Maybe I could even chance buying modern age techs and getting a second level tech. I had a palace pre-build going for the U.N. at this point, and I had Hoover's Dam timed to get to 800 shields the turn I learned motorized transportation, which I had hoped to swap to SETI via "what's the big picture."

    I learned Motorized Transportation before the AIs got Flight, and so I had to micromanage Ur so it wouldn't finish Hoover's Dam. Then I had Ur actually build something and restart on Hoover's Dam, since that didn't seem like it would work. A bit later I had to make it so that Akshak with the Palace pre-build for the U. N. going on wouldn't pump in so many shields. I ended up buying the last little bit of Flight, having researched it myself for 2 or 3 turns. I drew Computers as my free tech. Then came the gifting and the trading, while I tried to leave the stronger AIs in the industrial age while the weaker AIs came up to the modern era with me. I got the other first three level techs, and I think I left Persia and The Byzantines in the industrial era... stoking coal or something like that. Ur swapped to SETI, Akshak to the U.N. Zabalam had just finished something, and it had the requisite terrain, so Abi Ibn Rabbi (pardon me if I got his name wrong) finally got to do his job. I researched Miniturization, since I like to lock up The Internet, so I didn't want to have an AI moving too fast here. Since I didn't need cash for techs much now, I cash-rushed research labs everywhere, some courthouses and police stations (among other improvements) in the new cities founded in the wake of the Korean aftermath, and I felt like Lincoln of the Americans without having to start or continue a war with an F-15.

    Since I had so many techs on the table and knowing how the AIs love to trade, *and* having a whole empire to build spaceship parts, I decided to get deep in the tech tree after Miniturization instead of getting Space Flight sooner and starting on the ship. How deep? Well, I thought I might only have to run to The Laser before I could trade for Space Flight, but I thought I'd really run all the way to Robotics. Sure enough I did run all the way to Robotics. The Babs had gotten me Synthetic Fibers around when I had The Laser (they also supplied me with uranium), but even by the time I had Robotics the AIs didn't have Space Flight. So, I started on Space Flight and 2 or 3 turns in on that, the Babs had it and I got it. Erech had a palace pre-build going on, which I swapped to The Apollo Program which I got the next turn... the first turn Erech could have built The Apollo Program. That left me with two techs left and a slew of spaceship parts to build *fast*. 10 parts in 11 turns to get precise.

    Forutnately, I never had irrigated Ur, so it could build one of those expensive parts *fast*. Also, fortunately (o.k., maybe it's not fortune as I think I planned it this way), I didn't build Battlefield Medicine, so I could use that as a pre-build in Ur. Of course I should have used The Intelligence Agency instead, but oh well. I also re-mined irrigated tiles around Akshak so it could build the other really expensive spaceship part (the hull I think, while Ur build the engine). Also, fortunately since I have a habit of trying to hand-build factories even in low-shiled massively irrigated "cramped" metros, I ended up using some of those factory "builds" as pre-builds on the less expensive spaceship parts. I also had Sumer go with a palace pre-build on some spaceship part and re-mined some preivously irrigated tiles around there. I didn't end up needing it. I learned The Superconductor in 6 turns, which I think the Babs got the same turn I did. Satellites also took me 6 turns, whereby I used "what's the big picture" to swap Ur (I could have used Sumer also) to finish the thrusters on that same turn. The entire world got revealed to Gilgamesh, whereby he looked back at it, as he said "goodbye." Here's a final shot of my empire:



    Oh... if you can't see the corner there for the finish date... it's 1240 AD. Some "illusion" I had about not breaking Tone's record for this sort of map. Pyramids SGL, what???? Then again, even with Abi Ibn Rabbi I wouldn't have beaten his standard sized Russia diplomatic finish. Oh... and number of wars fought 0, number of battles fought 0. Not a specialist farm in sight (rather every city a late game hybrid metro-speciailist farm, except for Ur), and I didn't have 4 turn research on anything... well actually ever really I think. I only managed to trade for Replacable Parts and the last couple bits of Flight in the industrial age. Of course plenty of trading early on and in the middle ages and lots and lots of gifting for free techs. No second level techs drawn the whole game. I think I managed the Scientific Method in 5 turns as my shortest research time. I barely had any military the whole game. My final save says 1 rifle, 4 infantry, 6 mech infantry, 8 modern armors, 1 artillery, 3 medieval infantry, 16 enkidus, and 2 mobile sams. I didn't do any upgrades, and I think I disbanded 2 or 3 enkidus at some point.
     
  20. ThinkTank

    ThinkTank RL Addict

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    An inaccessible possible world
    Nice one! Congratulations!

    :beer:
     

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