Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Well, I've started looking into playing a Huge map for a diplomatic victory (since that seems fastest). I don't know who I'll play, but I thought Greece for a bit. I set the settings to 60% Deity pangea and found this map which reminded me of another some players have played through:
I played a histographic game on Cheiftain. I had one going with the Maya, I planned on not warring, but founding dozens of cities well into the high middle ages just doesn't make for my cup of tea. So, I cranked things down to tiny on Cheiftain. I played with Carthage. I didn't research past Free Artistry in that one. My score came out too low for the HoF (though I did win). Maybe it wouldn't have if I wouldn't have voluntarily razed all enemy cities. So, I cranked it up to a small map and didn't raze as much... though I did disband all cities but Carthage I got to Recycling. No freshwater for the start. I irrigated my capital after clearing some marsh and dragging water there. Other than that, pretty boring of a game, so no more details here. However, for my basic strategy, go here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=299691
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
What did you score on Tiny Chieftain?
I'm tempted to see how low I can go without not having a city for most of the time.
I'm tempted to see how low I can go without not having a city for most of the time.
A whole 63 points. I had to clear three marsh squares and drag freshwater like 5 squares total to get Carthage past size 2. It didn't matter. At tiny cheiftain you might even hire a scientist from the get go studying mathematics, set research to 0 %, build the Statue of Zeus in 200 turns and still crush the AIs handily. When you learn Maths, change to a tax collector and don't research anything else. Keep one tribe alive and just make sure you grow a wee little bit before 2050... I don't know when, but sometime I'd suspect, so that you have a higher score than the AIs.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I don't think there is such a thing as "too low a score for the HOF", assuming you meant the CivFanatics HOF.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
I dunno if you were trying for a quartermasters, but one of the requirements is a histographic game.
It wouldn't be the lowest scoring game in the HOF - there is one with a score of 0.
It wouldn't be the lowest scoring game in the HOF - there is one with a score of 0.
I played a similar small histographic, where I kept a few cities until Recycling. It's pretty empty, so it should appear at the bottom of that table. The first one took me like an hour and a half. The second one says three hours and eight minutes... if I didn't get up and do something else for a bit. It says it's been accepted, and I had a score of 178. Here's the link to the entry if you care http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/game_info.php?entryID=2414 Thanks though, I really do appreciate your attention to detail here.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
It needs to chart, though. A score of 77 is too low for the Tiny Chieftain histo table.
Well, I've started playing around with ideas as to how to beat my Deity SS finish date on a standardized map. As I said somewhere else, I think going Sanitation-Electricity-Sci. Method makes for a good idea. I've read Tone would get to Philosophy first on some small maps, but it looks like he took out all the non-Alphabet scientific tribes. Since I probably want fast researchers in the industrial and modern ages most, along with the above, I thought I might go with 5 opponents.. that way they have more territory... maybe more commerce for them. I can't say I've usually liked flood plain starts, but recently I've developed an appreciation of them.
I played as Sumeria and went granary-less and did a max run on alphabet, mostly roading first to boost commerce. Since I have fewer tribes, maybe I can even pull off The Republic slingshot as Sumeria on Deity? Well, I got three cities out (one founded on top of furs), and I joked to myself about something when...
it happened. I literally leapt out of my chair! Now the question becomes, should I explore a little with Abi Ibn Rabban (*not* Rabbi), trade for Masonry, still try for The Republic Slingshot, and forget about a modern age GA, instead taking it when I finish TOE (provided I get there, of course)? Or should I save it for Hoover's in the modern age? I can get Writing in 32 turns right now, and that should drop.
I played as Sumeria and went granary-less and did a max run on alphabet, mostly roading first to boost commerce. Since I have fewer tribes, maybe I can even pull off The Republic slingshot as Sumeria on Deity? Well, I got three cities out (one founded on top of furs), and I joked to myself about something when...
it happened. I literally leapt out of my chair! Now the question becomes, should I explore a little with Abi Ibn Rabban (*not* Rabbi), trade for Masonry, still try for The Republic Slingshot, and forget about a modern age GA, instead taking it when I finish TOE (provided I get there, of course)? Or should I save it for Hoover's in the modern age? I can get Writing in 32 turns right now, and that should drop.
I did lose two pop to disease in Ur so far, but well in 1950 BC with but 4 turns left on Writing I had contact with both the Babs and Germany. I first had contacted Germany, but they wouldn't part with Masonry for Alphabet. Once I met the Babs, this changed, and I traded for Masonry with The Germans, and CB from the Babs. I would soon have spices hooked up, and had another settler heading for ivory. 4 cities all producing settlers. Could Abi Ibbn Rabban make it back in time to a city for The Pyramids?
In 1870 BC disease struck Ur, so I had it produce a worker, wasting 4 shields, c'est la vie. In 1790 BC I had Writing and started on Code of Laws. In 1750 I could have founded Umma on top of the ivory. Instead, I moved it one tile northwest, so Abi Ibbn Rabban could move in. So, in 1725 Bc Abi Ibbn Rabban moved in, and, in 1700 BC I completed The Pyramids in Umma, as well having spices hooked up. Germany also got Writing this turn, but I figured I might as well try. In 1450 BC I met Persia and they already had MapMaking. In 1425 BC Persia had Philosophy, as well as now Mathematics and Code of Laws which they didn't have before, I guess Philosophy-Code of Laws, min research on Republic comes as the way to go. Back to the drawing board.
In 1870 BC disease struck Ur, so I had it produce a worker, wasting 4 shields, c'est la vie. In 1790 BC I had Writing and started on Code of Laws. In 1750 I could have founded Umma on top of the ivory. Instead, I moved it one tile northwest, so Abi Ibbn Rabban could move in. So, in 1725 Bc Abi Ibbn Rabban moved in, and, in 1700 BC I completed The Pyramids in Umma, as well having spices hooked up. Germany also got Writing this turn, but I figured I might as well try. In 1450 BC I met Persia and they already had MapMaking. In 1425 BC Persia had Philosophy, as well as now Mathematics and Code of Laws which they didn't have before, I guess Philosophy-Code of Laws, min research on Republic comes as the way to go. Back to the drawing board.
Well, I started another game with the same line-up. I popped the Alphabet SGL in 2510 BC. I have a cow and a wheat near my capital and already have two game around elsewhere. I already have contact with Persia. I have three cities out, and just finished a 4th settler in Ur. Writing at 80% research reads 30 turns, but I have a road about to complete. I may as well see if I can get the Pyramids in now, I guess. I think I could wait, so I can secure Philosophy more easily, but since I'll go Philosophy with Code of Laws as my freebie, I may as well get The Pyramids in now, right? I ended up taking Literature as my freebie, since I had some Persian cities close.
Grrr... it feels quite frustrating to have a game on pace faster than your own HoF record game, which then runs into problems... like the AIs not getting Space Flight soon enough, as well as not going for Miniaturization, and that they started warring in the late industrial period and kept warring in the modern era, thus slowing down their research. The AIs didn't war in the early industrial era in this one, I think because I didn't bleed them out of all there gpt, but took something like 80% or so of the max I could (nice round numbers). I managed to get all of Industrialization, The Corporation, Refining, Replacable Parts, and Flight in the industrial ages from the AIs. They did get me Synthetic Fibers, but they only saved me one turn on Space Flight, and nothing on Miniaturizaiton even though I went Nuclear Power-The Laser. On top of this, I could trade for aluminum on the first turn I gifted them into the modern era (not the first turn, since I needed an extra turn to finish Hoover's and I didn't want a cascade to SETI or the U. N.), but I didn't and couldn't trade for it afterwards. I also could trade for uranium for a bit *and* did so, and then later I couldn't trade for it. I never could trade for rubber. I think I could have had the diplomatic record on this map, but I went for space... plus if I wanted that I would have tried to trigger my GA earlier. How frustrating. The last turn I decided to RoP Germany and throw a bunch of TOW infantry against Germany to get aluminum. Once I saw it would still take me some turns to finish The Apollo Program (and I still lacked uranium and rubber), I knew I wouldn't top my best date. Some saves:
So, I tried another one with Sumeria where I got the Alphabet SGL and would have launched just a little after my top date. Going sanitation-electricity-sci method and trading for industrialization works on Deity quite well (it seems like mid-electricity for me, you probably could go electricity-sci. method and someone might have Industrialization by then). I think I got part of The Corporation, all of Industralization, Refining, and Replacable Parts. America and Japan both got exterminated. I had a LOT of jungle (check the save).
I don't know if I want just the 5 non-scientific AIs or all of them and Japan. I don't see why I want a full 7 AIs unless I have them all as scientific (which rules out an Alphabet SGL). Maybe that will cut down on warring and speed up the AIs research later on. Hopefully the ancient age doesn't slow up too much that way... although maybe they'll end up with contacts later this way... so maybe 6 instead of 5 seems better. I might grab a little more territory that way also. I often have trouble getting luxes as early as I would like, and would really like to at least try Democracy on for size, so I want to try out the Babs. I think I'll still try out starts with only one food bonus. I don't know how much territory I really want compared to the AIs, so if I have 6-turn capital settler-factory instead of a 4-turn one, I don't think that such a big deal.
I don't know if I want just the 5 non-scientific AIs or all of them and Japan. I don't see why I want a full 7 AIs unless I have them all as scientific (which rules out an Alphabet SGL). Maybe that will cut down on warring and speed up the AIs research later on. Hopefully the ancient age doesn't slow up too much that way... although maybe they'll end up with contacts later this way... so maybe 6 instead of 5 seems better. I might grab a little more territory that way also. I often have trouble getting luxes as early as I would like, and would really like to at least try Democracy on for size, so I want to try out the Babs. I think I'll still try out starts with only one food bonus. I don't know how much territory I really want compared to the AIs, so if I have 6-turn capital settler-factory instead of a 4-turn one, I don't think that such a big deal.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Spoonwood, here is the save of which we spoke; I can let you have others if you like, because I archive HOF attempts with CivAssistII (At least, I think I can - I've never tried it before.).
Oh, now I see why you researched Metallurgy. Actually, that comes out less "frantic" of a tech pace than I previously thought, but it's still feels faster than with more regular games, doesn't it? Quite a nice chunk of territory you've got there Buce! Having less than max opponents can help there I guess. Did you end up grabbing the northwest spot out by the whale?
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yeah, having checked your game and Tone's Diplo win on the same parameters, it's maybe not as fast as I thought for a peaceful game; peaceful games are somewhat outside of my experience at Deity, so I'm used to it being a bit slower. I think Osman had his GA in the early MA's, which speeded things up there; I revolted to Republic as soon as the GLib came in, and - after drawing 8 turns of anarchy - it was obsolete soon after.
Having fewer opponents was a deliberate attempt to keep the tech pace high with bigger empires, and I'm somewhat perplexed at how little gold there is about despite that.
The territory I have is indeed nice; on anything less than Deity it would have provided 4-turn research, I think, though it is lacking in lux's, so I've had a 20% lux slider for a good while.
I still haven't figured out how many opponents works as best and such. Will Japan help pick up the tech pace by having The Wheel or will they slow things down with their militaristic behavior and having less territory for the other AIs? Should you go with only 5 scientific tribes if you play as a non-Alphabetic tribe and play until until have a Pyramids SGL, or should you go with 7 scientific opponents instead and pretty much forget about The Pyramids? On that, will Mysticism work for an SGL with the Babs? Bad early trading opportunities if that works, I'd think, and Pyramids+Great Library implies GA for Babylon... maybe not what you want, although maybe so. If you play as Greece, Korea, or The Byzantines do you want 5, 6, or 7 opponents? I've started to think of Greece, Korea, or The Byzantines... I'd prefer Korea... as the tribe with the most potential and playing against 7 scientific opponents... only 1 with Alphabet, and playing for a Writing or Philosophy SGL for The Pyramids. But, with them, should you maybe try 6 non-alphabetic scientific tribes and go for the slignshot? Maybe the tech pace would end up too slow if you got it, maybe not though, I don't know.
On the other hand, the 3rd game in the Small Chieftain histo has a score of 0
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/index.php?condition=Histographic&mapSize=Small&submit=Go
