SQ1: Google Earth

[choxorn]

then the true roster should be:

Andro: UP
Tone: ON DECK
SQ
Tupac: just played

 

[Tone]

I've played a couple of standard games on both vanilla and C3C and all seems well now. I didn't want to risk messing up an SG but I've played some games that didn't matter and all seems fine now. I'll install the additional files for this game and rejoin. It's moved on a bit so I've got some serious reading to do!

I'll follow Andronicus if that's OK.

 

[Sima Qian]

I'll follow Andronicus if that's OK.

That's how it's always been so far. Very glad to have you back.

Andronicus, I'm expecting some serious ANZAC action, Tupac set up a great war for you to fight!

 

[choxorn]

(refering to SQ's new postcount title): An insane variant designer you are! But will you keep playing your record, "Vegeterian Vengeance", Oh great historian?

 

[Andronicus]

Since this has laid dormant a week - a quick update
I've downloaded the save but not played yet - should be able to post my turns by Friday morning (not sure whether that be 10 or 20 though). Sorry for delay - up in 2 SGs when got home Monday and got called into work yesterday .

 

[Andronicus]

This has taken longer than expected, but progress is being made
AOL is down to 6 cities and 3 tundra towns in 930AD, we have a bit of WW but I think we can handle a bit more war
After many fruitless elite victories I have just popped 2 leaders - the first I used to rush the FP, I'm unsure what to do with the second.
I have traded aggresively to get steam, industrialisation, electricity and replacable parts, but I was unable to recoup my gpt outlay as those civs lacking techs had no money left (rest assured I have maintained positive cash flow this time). Consequently I have been unable to research and am saving money for medicine and hoppefully scientific method (corporation is known only by linux, no-one yet building ToE) I have a city which could build ToE in about 4 or 5 turns if Sci Method turns up in time and I can afford a trade The question is should I use the leader to rush Suffrage to break the wonder cascade and try and outbuild the AI when ToE available, or should I use him to form an army? I think I can outbuild the AI as GooglePlex can do 60spt - currently has 1 turn left top build wall st, or can use Suffrage as prebuild for ToE if dont leader rush it elsewhere

Its late here so I will return in the morning to finish up.

 

[choxorn]

I suggest using it for suffrage to break the wonder cascade, and work on ToE in GooglePlex as soon as you get Sci Method. At 60 spt, you'll finish it in 10 turns (unless it's not 600 shields in 1.07f and that leaked to this variant)!

 

[Andronicus]

Pre turn
Lots of cavs ready to blat AOL
Badly behind in techs, may have missed chance at ToE / Hoover
Need FP - will use leader if get one
I want steam and Industrialisation ASAP to get a chance on prebuilding ToE

I avoid my prefered SP strategy (pay 100s gpt for IBMs techs then await their dow on me after I attack AOL next). Agree it is an exploit, but if the AI wants the benefits of MPP it should have to deal with the negatives

So I go a much more complicated and expensive way to the techs I want
Get more gpt avail by selling units not worth upgrading (archers and swords)
Trade Yahoo 33gpt for ToG + 10g - get free nationalism
Trade IBM 87gpt for Steam +1g (Note below I did not leave us owing IBM)
Trade Sun silks, WM, 78gpt, 2g + coal (after building colony on 2nd source - coal saves us 26gpt) and link to renegotiate peace (saving additional 11gpt) for electricity
Trade IBM Electricity for 90gpt + 37g
Trade Yahoo Electricity + 9gpt for Industrial, PP + 5g
Trade Linux WM, WM, 239gpt + 57g for Replacable Parts
Trade Sun Replacable Parts for 69gpt, 3g + WM
Trade Yahoos Replacable Parts for 34gpt + 32g

Switch to a lot of factories, scholar gets a duct and Froogle goes to uni (cultural pressure from Yahoos), Blogger loses its scientist
Send most cavs south
Science on hold to save gold
Attack AOL and IBM dow due to MPP
Clean out units around Redmond (7-1)

IT
Apple dow AOL
Apple building Suffrage
IBM dow Apple
Apple capture Road Runner

840AD
Spend all money upgrading
No new techs
Clean out around Redmond (11-1)

IT
Video bank -> factory
Yahoos building Shake's


850AD
Apple, Linux and Yahoo have Medicine, not Sun, but no trade avail
Railing and preparing forces

IT
Froogle Uni -> cav
Yahoos building Shake's

860AD
Ping units around Turner - move ready to attack next turn (17-1)
Apple will trade Medicine for furs, silk and all our gold, but no-one to on-sell to -> dont do

IT
lose an e-arch I left out unprotected (17-2)
Googlplex factory -> Wall St (? prebuild for ToE - 54spt so 11 turns - grows next turn)
Apple building Shake's

870AD
@ Turner Broadcasting, lose 1 cav taking out 2 rifles -> capture (19-3)
clear out loose units (24-5) includes 4 elite wins, no leader

IT
lose infantry at Turner, but take out a cav (25-6)
Print market -> arty
IBM building Shake's

880AD
WW hits -> up lux to 10%
South of Turner clear 5 units with 5 elite victories - still no leader (30-6)

IT
AOL attack our stack threatening Netscape - 3 victories inc e-pike on defence (33-6)
Redmond settler -> worker
Web Search factory -> cav (2 turners)

890AD
@ Netscape (on hill) - arty knock rifles to 1 and 2 hp, first cav wins, 2nd loses, 3rd loses and promotes rifle, 4th wins and capture city (32-8)
mopping up (33-8)

IT
IBM frigate fails pillage attempt, galley and frigate going round western end of continent
AOL cavs attack our cav stack on hill threatening Instant Messanger we go 2-1 (35-9)
Menlo Park factory -> infantry
Orkut worker -> worker
Picasa settler -> market
Sun building Shake's

900AD
@ Instant Messanger - cav l rifle->3/4, cav d rifle, cav l rifle - no damage, cav l promoting rifle 2/5, cav d 3/4rifle, cav d 2/5rifle, cav d cav -> raze it (37-10)
Settle Pack just north where wont have cultural pressure -> lib
Settle Page Creator - new FP city (still awaiting that leader)

IT
IBM pillage sucessfully
Web Search cav -> cav

910AD
knock off a few cavs with elites (39-10) - still no leader
IBM will accept peace for 20g - hold off for now as they are giving us WH
WW worsens -> 20% lux
AOL have infantry

IT
@ Pack cav defends successfully v 2 cavs with arty help (41-10)
Lose 4 workers railing access to AOL's land
cav (on mountain threatening Nullsoft) d cav (42-10)
CNN resistance ends worker -> worker
Mountain View factory -> harbour
GMail factory -> bank
Scholar duct -> bank

920AD
@ Nullsoft cav redlines rifle, e-cav d musket and we get MGL Forbidden Palace , cav d 1/4 rifle and capture (should have razed but wasnt thinking in my excitement) (44-11)
@ Welcome Screen cav l rifle -> 3/4, cav l 3/4rifle -> 3/5, cav d 3/5 rifle, cav d musk, cav d reg musk*2 -> raze the capital (48-13)
Miribalis has inf defending - I think that will be my last attack before peace to stop WW as we will likely have heavy losses
clear away left overs (51-15)

IT
Lose archer and cav (53-15)
Menlo Park arty -> inf
Web Search cav -> inf
Blogger worker -> worker

930AD
Rush FP in Page Creator
@ Miribalis arty reduce size from 10->8, destroy rax and redline only inf. cav d musk, cav redlines musk, cav d 1/4inf, cav d 1/4musk (56-16) -> capture
WW is no worse and cant get anything worthwhile in peace treaty so cont war v AOL - they have 6 cities and 3 tundra towns left

IT
AOL req peace treaty - decline
First pollution hits
Desktop settler -> settler
Page Creator FP -> market
Talk factory -> bank
Yahoos builkding ToE
No action from AOL - guess they're gassed

940AD
Settle Web Accelerator to get to 2 tiles from You've Got Mail
Throw everything at AOL
@ Naviserve rifle and 2 muskets kill first 5 cavs, but succomb to next 3 (58-18) -> raze
@ Explorer Browser lose 2 cavs v 2 rifles and musket, last avail unit 4/5*cav is redlined but takes final rifle (risky move that) -> raze (61-20)
@ You've Got Mail arty ensure no losses v 2 rifles, musket and c-inf -> raze (65-20)
Rail to get to Compuserve
@ Compuserve , 2 arty fail, 3rd destrous harbour, lose 2 cavs defeating 2 pikes and musket (68-22) -> raze
Trade Apple WM, silks, gems, furs, 123g + 20gpt for Medicine
Trade Sun gems + 100gpt for Sci Meth
Peace Treaty with IBM to allow trade (only able to do with ROP)
Trade IBM silk, gems, rubber, Sci Meth, 13gpt for Corporation + ivory
Trade Sun Corporation + WM for 83gpt
Trade Apple Corporation for WM, 150g, 2gpt + espionage
Switch Googleplex to ToE
Hurry Suffrage in Web Accelorator (to get cultural expansion)

IT
Menlo Park arty -> arty
Mountain View harbour -> court
Web Search inf -> court
Froogle inf -> settler
Web Accumulator Suffrage -> settler
Suddenly realise my mistake - had prev been thinking of rushing Suffrage to stop the cascade - now Sci meth ios out it starts the cascade - stupid

950AD
cav d cav mopping up (69-22)
troops healing up - I elect to push on with war as WW not too bad (20% lux req) and could soon eliminate AOL
I'm sorry guys about the wonder cascade - the suspence is killing me so I play the extra turn to see if we get it

IT
IBM want MPP - I decline
IBM dow - WTH!
we lose ivory
AOL sends LB which kills our cav (69-23)
Linux complete Shakes ... and thats it!

960AD
ToE due next turn
kill that pesky LB (70-23)
@ Mapquest arty destroy temple, decr size 11->8 and remove a few hps, 2 cavs lost overcoming c-inf, rifle, musk, pike and LB (what a mixture) (75-25) -> capture
@ Singing Fish lose 4 cavs before killing rifle / musk pair, had to use 3/5cav on final redlined musk (77-29) -> capture
AOL has only 3 cities left so I am keeping all now

IT
IBM pillage
pollution stikes Googlplex but still sufficient shields to build ToE -> free Atomic and Electronics
set for Radio as likely to be another monopoloy (opportunities to trade for refining)
Googleplex -> Hoover in 13
Menlo Park arty -> arty (useful to chase away pillaging IBM, but could switch to Intelligence Agency)
Web Search court -> Wall St
GMail bank -> inf
Froogle settler -> factory
Desktop setter -> lib
Video factory -> arty (has no rax)
Blogger worker -> court
Turner - resistance ends worker -> worker

OK I'm sorry playing the extra turn, but after stuffing up the rush of Suffrage and ToE being a major goal of my turn, I jusy had toi see it through
I have not done anything this turn, as I now have to go to work I hand it over to Tone with no units moved and no cities MMed

 

[choxorn]

You played two extra turns, Andro. Oh and BTW, now I suggest you use that MGL for a cav Army. After all, I doubt the AI will get Hoover dam and even if they do, it wouldn't kill you. Especially since you can always capture the AI city with Hoover Dam if you want...

 

[Andronicus]

You played two extra turns, Andro. Oh and BTW, now I suggest you use that MGL for a cav Army. After all, I doubt the AI will get Hoover dam and even if they do, it wouldn't kill you. Especially since you can always capture the AI city with Hoover Dam if you want...

Yep I played 2 turns beyond the even no - I just couldnt bear not knowing if we would get Hoover or not after devoting so much trading towards it and forgoing past 14 turns of research.

I used the MGL to rush Suffrage - not that it's any great use - I was intending to break the wonder cascade, instead I risked precipitating it - complete and utter brain fade .

If AI did get Hoover if it would be no use to us once captured since it would be on a different continent.

If Tone not ready to play at present I could tidy up the last turn and resubmit 970AD save at end of turn tonight, otherwise feel free to go ahead and play

 

[Sima Qian]

Very nicely done. One thing I might mention is that we have two possible sites for Iron Works on our continent, neither of which are going to be convenient for us. We could build a city 1 south of GMail, but that would require us to abandon GMail and that really wouldn't be worthwhile. The alternative would be to build a city either 1 NE of Road Runner or 3 SW of Picasa, and either would require going to war with Apple or Sun. Also, there aren't enough food tiles around there to support a large population. Anyone mind waiting for coal or iron to reappear somewhere else, and try our luck?

WW has gotten annoying but I think we might be able to get another lux trade with Sun. They will sell us spices for furs + 14gpt.

AOL is willing to hand over their last two cities for peace but I think we're better off destroying them.

Even though we still have quite a way to go, I think it's not too early to start talking about victory conditions. My preference is 1. domination 2. conquest 3. space race, with the others being not very feasible by this point. The reason for that is, well, based on an image I saw of "Google in 20 years":

Moderator Action: Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

 

[tupaclives]

that is absolutely hilarious!

 

[Andronicus]

The war with AOL is costing us - we are having to spend 20% of our GA commerce on lux, in addition AOL has a trade embargo with Linux against us (not important since we have decided not to feed the beast with extra lux). It appears AOL also has MPP with IBM again (previously there was no MPP showing) - this may explain IBM's sudden dow after I refused an MPP, but as there was no action by us (it being IBT) at the time it seems wierd.
Peace with AOL will not get us anything other than the tundra towns, we would then have sig flip risk and no way to retake for 20 turns. One option would be to just leave crap units in towns with resistors and if they flip wait out the 20 turns before re-dowing and finally wiping them out. The other option ofcourse is remove them ASAP - possibly in 2-3 turns
The forested tundra will limit the speed of any approach. We are getting lowish on cavs as the time of cavalry comes to an end and tanks are in sight I see little benefit from building more soon to be obsolete units, and was prepared to sacrifice many cavs to speed the assault on AOL.
Settling the vacant land will be important if we wish to keep other AI off it
I havnt looked into trading opportunities now we have monoploly techs, we should be able to get a lot of gpt from linux at least (of course when our massive gpt payments to them expire, they may decide to dow us to remove their payments to us) as well as any avail cash.
Science can be turned back on as soon as war is over and lux removed - with FP now we should be in good commerce shape
I have no particular views re victory targets, but with razing AOL cities the chances of diplo are small, so a pre-build for UN for denial purposes should be considered.
I apologise again for the "dog's breakfast" state of current save, if Tone is willing to wait I should be able to post end of turn save this evening (say within 6 hours of now), but would leave trades to be done by next player.

 

[Andronicus]

an image I saw of "Google in 20 years":

Moderator Action: Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

seriously ... those are not my keys

 

[Tone]

I apologise again for the "dog's breakfast" state of current save, if Tone is willing to wait I should be able to post end of turn save this evening (say within 6 hours of now), but would leave trades to be done by next player.

I'd appreciate that. I have this and the SGOTM to play at some point over the weekend but there's no way that I will start on either for another 12 hours as I've just got up and I'm now going to go to work.

I will need to look at the game carefully as it's been a long while since my last turn set so any general strategy/guidance would also be appreciated to help me get back into it. BTW no problems about continuing for a couple of turns-we're all flexible here.

Nice image, SQ! It's always good to get up with a smile.

 

[Andronicus]

OK I've completed 970AD turn

cities MMed, WW has hit harder so had to increase lux to 30%, somuch for Suffrage benefits. Some tile usage may seem strange but necessitated by neg gpt if optimal tiles used
We need to end this war soon
I have placed attack forces whioch hopefully will be enough for 2 towns next turn, then use any healed cavs to take final AOL town on second turn. Lux should then go back to 0% allowing us to start research on next tech

Note I have not traded our 2 new monopoly techs. I suggest trading atomic, but only Linus offers full price for it. They will pay 7379g straight up (better than getting gpt as they have been furious - have trade embargo v us - and may start demanding techs, currently we owe them - 239gpt for another 6 turns. Yahoo will give us refining but have no money, Sun will give us spices and semi-useless techs (commie, demo & nav), also having no money, Apple have refining, useless techs and 37g, IBM wont acknowledge us.
I would keep electronics a while to ensure we snag Hoover and a monopoly on radio, assuming we research that direction
Another alt is to get sanitation from Linux - they are only civ with it, but I would prefder to get money from them and get sanitation from one of the others once they research or trade it

Lots of worker tasks remain. My primary goal has been railing already developed tiles in our most productive cities, looking to irrigate to speed growth, then mine once growth maximised. I have left most of the jungle till after, giving priority to cities requiring another tile to work.

I am uncertain what to do with corrupt towns in vanilla. Without useful scientists, science farms seem too much effort for the meagre benefits. My approach has been to place new towns to prevent AI from settling and setting to workers (we still can do with more), settlers sped with forest chops (mainly applies to captured AOL towns) or wealth to ensure we maintain pos cash flow - note there are quite a few taxmen in these towns

After bremoving AOL our next move depends on what victory condition we want to head for. We are reasonably set up for space or military, Linux being our no.1 competitor. UN to prevent AI build should be planned.

 

[tupaclives]

In my games, any desolately corrupt towns I simply irrigate everything, then make as many taxmen as it can (scientist farms are useless in vanilla but most games I'll usually have about +100gpt worht of taxmen farms) and then no worker or settler will ever come out my core again. They will be supplied by these corrupt towns and I'll use workers and settler produced in the corrupt areas to quickly build up the pop of my core cities (and especially cities around the FP as they are usually in a captured area and are all newly founded cities that I want to get up to scratch quickly).

Other than that I can't really think of any use for corrupt towns in vanilla.

 

[choxorn]

A few things:

If AI did get Hoover if it would be no use to us once captured since it would be on a different continent.

What if you had cities on that continent?

Moderator Action: Sorry. That image is funny, but it gets around the autocensor by displaying words as images, so I've had to remove it

What's so funny about the image?

Note I have not traded our 2 new monopoly techs. I suggest trading atomic, but only Linus offers full price for it. They will pay 7379g straight up (better than getting gpt as they have been furious - have trade embargo v us - and may start demanding techs, currently we owe them - 239gpt for another 6 turns. Yahoo will give us refining but have no money, Sun will give us spices and semi-useless techs (commie, demo & nav), also having no money, Apple have refining, useless techs and 37g, IBM wont acknowledge us.
I would keep electronics a while to ensure we snag Hoover and a monopoly on radio, assuming we research that direction
Another alt is to get sanitation from Linux - they are only civ with it, but I would prefder to get money from them and get sanitation from one of the others once they research or trade it

Give Linux Atomic Theory for 7379g, then use that gold to buy sanitation from Linux and Refining from Apple or Yahoo.

 

[Sima Qian]

Hmm... interesting scenario. I'd say that we hold on to atomic theory for a bit longer, I'd much rather have the AI demand it than demand electronics. Hoover's is due in 13 turns but will definitely take longer due to the end of our GA.

I'd vote for eliminating AOL asap, since then the tech cost for refining and sanitation would be reduced since that's one less AI that does not know them. On the other hand, that might also slightly reduce the value of our monopoly on atomic theory.

AlanH, glad you got a laugh out of it too.

 

[tupaclives]

What if you had cities on that continent?

The corruption would make them useless. The point is that we want the extra production Hoover allows for on our main continent so that it is actually useful. Having hydroplants in even 1000 corrupt cities is totally pointless.

What's so funny about the image?

the image has been changed but it had swearing hence the need to be taken down.

Give Linux Atomic Theory for 7379g, then use that gold to buy sanitation from Linux and Refining from Apple or Yahoo

Why would we buy Refining or Sanitation for cash? The best thing to do would be get Sanitation + gold from Linux and then get refining from Apple or Yahoo + from the pair eventually get all the past techs as well using either Atomic Theory, or Sanitation for trade rather than gold. Lets keep the cash.