Stand Up to Fascism

[Berzerker]

A South Park episode airing before Osama Bin Laden was killed had the boys sending a dollar to Afghanistan at the urging of their school. The money was received by kids who were Afghan versions of the South Park boys. They sent back a goat who would be mistaken throughout the show for Stevie Nicks doing a USO tour for the troops in Afghanistan, the bleating sound being a humorous take on Nick's voice.

The South Park boys return the goat to the Afghan kids who live in a constantly bombed out village - from our bombs. At the end of the show Stan (or Kyle) says if you cant root for the home team, get out of the stadium. Translation: sure we're bombing the hell out of the homes of the Afghan kids, so what... Cheer for our side anyway, or leave...

And that brings us to Donald Trump. He said of the NFL football players, they shouldn't live here if they want to protest during the national anthem. He applauded a new NFL football policy that will keep player protests hidden from the American people. He still complained about one aspect of the policy requiring players who want to protest to stay in the locker room during the anthem, but he was happy nonetheless.

I think its fascistic to tell people to leave the country if they dont like something. Fascistic and hypocritical. The people who tell others to leave if they dont like it wont take their own advice when they object to a policy or law. That goes for these people who try to shut down speech they dont like whether it be critics of the Dixie Chicks or Ann Coulter or fill in the blank. I hope the players - all the players - stand up to fascism the 1st week of the season, I hope they all stand up to fascism by taking a knee. If they dont, fascism will win another battle against freedom...

 

[Synobun]

Woulda figured you'd use the latest ICE shenanigans as the anti-Fascism call to action, but I guess the NFL works too.

 

[Bugfatty300]

He applauded a new NFL football policy that will keep player protests hidden from the American people.

Typical. Anything thing to maintain the corporate facade of gilded boiler plates and fake enthusiasm. Market-harming things like protests and controversy are verboten. This same attitude is taking over media and will be an incubator for fascism. Imagine a smiley emoji stamping on a human face.

 

[Zkribbler]

This is a bizarre rule change.

It is a "compromise" between the League & the owners. Yet the owners did not vote on it.

The union is ticked because there was no meet & confer. But does there have to be? The league's lawyers would argue there is no change in the terms & conditions of employment, i.e. the game is not affected; the players are not affected. Fines are to be imposed upon the teams, not upon the players.

The League has stated it's responding to pressure by the President. If so, this could be interpreted as a First Amendment violation, that is, the League & the owners are acting as the agent of the President when suppressing free speech.

I'm kicking around the idea of counter measures: Refusal to play the national anthem; playing the national anthem followed by "We Shall Overcome." Stealing the flag . Standing for the anthem, facing away from the flag.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Every Player on every team should Kneel anyway.

 

[Zkribbler]

Every Player on every team should Kneel anyway.

Why is no one pointing out that, historically, kneeling shows much more respect than standing?

 

[Berzerker]

Disgraceful that @nyjets owner will pay fines for players who kneel for National Anthem. Encouraging a movement premised on lies vs. police. Would he support all player protests? Would he pay fines of players giving Nazi salutes or spew racism? It’s time to say goodbye to Jets!

Rep Peter King of NY

 

[Zkribbler]

What would be the basis of the player fines?
The players work for the owners, not for the league.
There's nothing in the union contract requiring the players to stand.

 

[luiz]

I see nothing particularly disrespectful in kneeling during the anthem. That said, these players brought a political controversy to their work place that has proven quite bad for business. It's the same reason why Google fired Damore (though Google being Google they cloak it in PC language).

 

[Cheetah]

They should bring politics to the work place.

Being a responsible citisen in a democracy means that one has the duty to be informed and inform others, and to discuss and debate political topics. Work is one of the largest social arenas we have, so making it an artificial zone where the only permitted politic is whatever is currently in power, sounds like a really, really bad idea.

Protesting like this is awesome. It doesn't take time from the game itself, or even push any schedules. It only helps to remind people of the political issue the protesters are trying to highlight.

Being against these protests shows a level of authoritarianism and anti-liberalism which is quite problematic.

 

[luiz]

They should bring politics to the work place.

Being a responsible citisen in a democracy means that one has the duty to be informed and inform others, and to discuss and debate political topics. Work is one of the largest social arenas we have, so making it an artificial zone where the only permitted politic is whatever is currently in power, sounds like a really, really bad idea.

Protesting like this is awesome. It doesn't take time from the game itself, or even push any schedules. It only helps to remind people of the political issue the protesters are trying to highlight.

Being against these protests shows a level of authoritarianism and anti-liberalism which is quite problematic.

While I agree that this kneeling protest is quite harmless, I disagree you should bring your politics to the work place. I don't want the work place to be a real life version of CFC OT, where people waste hours discussing the horrors of cultural appropriation. People are paid to do a job, so it's fair to expect them to focus on it and not derail everyone else with discussions that are alien to the job scope. Of course, people should be free to discuss everything they want among colleagues, have political chat in the cafeteria etc, but heated political discussion is not appropriate. People in the West (US in particular) need to relearn the virtues of polite disagreement and working together with people with very different, even irreconcilable, world views.

Back to kneeling during the anthem : yeah, harmless. I don't get all the upset. But it's costing NFL big bucks. They got in a very public fight with the president and his suport base, which has a strong correlation with the NFL fanbase. TV ratings, on which they ultimately depend for survival, are down 20% compared to 2 years ago (this is not the only cause but all neutral analysts believe it's a big factor). NFL owners didn't pay billions to own teams to promote social justice, they expect a return on their investment. It's natural for them to want to make this go away (without alienating their traditional conservative fanbase nor promoting a huge backlash with social justice Twitter warriors and the media that listens to them)

 

[Cheetah]

Oh, sure. Don't drop the work itself for just talking politics. I was thinking more along the lines that people should be free to discuss politics during lunch, coffee breaks, and so on.

And even more, it is absolutely necessary that people learn to politely disagree with each other. If I find I can't work with people unless I agree completely with them, we're gonna have some problems...

 

[luiz]

Oh, sure. Don't drop the work itself for just talking politics. I was thinking more along the lines that people should be free to discuss politics during lunch, coffee breaks, and so on.

And even more, it is absolutely necessary that people learn to politely disagree with each other. If I find I can't work with people unless I agree completely with them, we're gonna have some problems...

Exactly. When a political discussion among employees becomes so heated and public that it puts the company in a collision course with a big part of its customer base, the company won't be happy. And understandably so.

 

[Zkribbler]

They got in a very public fight with the president ...

To be fair, the President got in a very public fight with them.

 

[Imaus]

It's a horsehockey thing to do, but it's more Jingoistic/Nationalistic than Fascistic. But no one cares anymore because 'Fascism' is a overused and misapplied word that no one wants to rectify because omg, Fascism was so evil! Comparing everything I hate to it shows how mad I am about whatever I'm applying the 'Fascist' label to!

 

[Berzerker]

Would it become fascistic if Trump began expelling players who kneel during the anthem from the country?

 

[Broken_Erika]

I bet he'll try to start as the investigations move closer to him.
Trump:Look! Fire! Distraction!
Fox news Crowd:Ooooo! Shiney!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Obtuse and hypocritical as the NFL has repeatedly demonstrated itself to be, this is not fascism and it's not reasonable to assert it as such.

The League has stated it's responding to pressure by the President. If so, this could be interpreted as a First Amendment violation, that is, the League & the owners are acting as the agent of the President when suppressing free speech.

That'd be a hard case to make unless they could show he was threatening some kind of consequence. Though president/NFL/media have all been pretty childish over this, lots of emotion ramping, little emphasis on what facts support/what tangible things players actually do outside of games/any actual consequences aside from drumming up butthurt.

Being against these protests shows a level of authoritarianism and anti-liberalism which is quite problematic.

No, that would be legally banning them. Corporate activism is pretty vexing though. That goes for both the NFL and Google which was also brought up here. It's hard to have respect for overt hypocrisy.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I heard sports commentators saying this rule will likely be dropped in the next negotiations between the league and player's union.
Players: We want this stupid rule dropped!
The league: "Sure, we'll drop this rule....in exchange for a 1.5% better deal for us".

 

[Berzerker]

Obtuse and hypocritical as the NFL has repeatedly demonstrated itself to be, this is not fascism and it's not reasonable to assert it as such.

The fascistic element was introduced by Trump... But if fascism is autocratic, wouldn't businesses by their very nature qualify? I mean, fascism was/is the union of big business and big government. For example, Donald Trump is a fan of using eminent domain to benefit business. He wants government to seize your land for his business, seems fascistic to me. Should we be surprised he wants us - well, NFL players - to stand at attention while the anthem plays or get the hell out of the country?