Standard (80x52) World Map TSL

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Custom maps' started by Veneke, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. iloveciv5

    iloveciv5 bluesolid100

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potos%C3%AD

    I'm pretty sure that this the real, famous one that made Spain rich, made China abandon paper money and go back to silver coins, and made England also rich from wars with Spain. Cierro de Potosi was a mountain made of silver, and maintained to have been mined over 150,000 tons of silver periodicity.

    I think i'm also pretty late on this one.
    This video on YouTube helped me know this:
    The Spanish Empire, Silver, & Runaway Inflation: Crash Course World History #25
     
  2. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    ...

    I'm blaming the Spanish for naming everything so bloody similar. In the next update Cerro de Potosi is going in Bolivia then.
     
  3. santoo

    santoo Chieftain

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    Thanks a lot!

    Jerusalem I can understand. I typically never DOW on CSes, much preferring to ally them, but Jerusalem holds such a powerful position geo-strategically speaking... if you plan on invading Europe, Africa, Asia or the Arabian peninsula (from a different region, via land), you'll most likely want that territory

    ah, that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up.

    ...off to try out Polynesia for the first time... :)
     
  4. santoo

    santoo Chieftain

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    I think I have some idea, why Polynesia (as AI) doesn't expand - it's a combination of factors:

    .) Really unproductive starting location: 3 production from capital + 1 from an atoll nw. No chance of improving production (2 more landtiles are near, but they are jungle - with grassland below) - so the initial production for Honolulu stays really low for reaaaally long.

    .) Good growth starting location: IIRC 4 improvable sea-resources lead to comparable quick growth of the capital - soon eating up the happiness-bonus from the 2 or 3 luxuries - assuming you *have* used your valuable production on 1-use workboats (unlike the other civs that can build workers to multi-improve their capitals' ressources, and which are not so strapped for production in the first place)

    .) Settling new cities would be quite a drain on the economy - you have to wait at least until late medieval times to research compass before you can form your FIRST trade route - but even if your new cities have some good production going, you *still* have to wait while building a harbor in the really lazy capital as well (or you could buy it... with the money... you don't have... thanks to no trade routes ;))

    I don't know why the AI wouldn't expand after Compass - then again, it might try to play catch-up in the capital (which, due to limited production, will be sorely lacking in area-appropriate buildings)

    Even if geographically incorrect - maybe give them one or two hills (or even some atolls) and see if that helps the AI?

    oh, and bad production in Honolulu also means 2 things:
    .) Polynesia has virtually no chance to found a religion (no natural wonders for faith, too slow to build faith buildings, scouts used mainly for naval purposes, therefore no goody huts/free faith)
    .) No chance to grab any wonder in the first 100 turns. (Playing on Immortal. I had no problem getting 5 or so wonders by this time in my earlier Maya-game - at Immortal as well)

    That being said - surprisingly, Polynesia can still hold it's own (score-wise in the top third of civs) - even without wonders, free techs or religion.

    Other observations @Turn 110, unless otherwise noted
    .) China explores Australia as early as Turn 55 (with land units!). Makes it even stranger, that no one settles there.
    .) Selasse leads the scoreboard - all other African nations are in the bottom half.
    .) By turn 100, Polynesia has made contact with every other nation (using only its starting unit to scout). Since open borders are only just started being traded and no one else can cross oceans yet - this is hugely different from other nations. (Though not [yet] much of an advantage, as RAs are not yet possible).
    .) American, Chinese, Indians Mayans and Russians are the remaining nations in the top 3rd (apart from aforementioned Ethiopia and Polynesia), all with ample space to expand into
    .) The Bottom-6 look like they will stay at the bottom: Spain, Germany, Carthage, the Inca, the Arabs and the Byzantines (high-to-low) all have no place left to expand (England could settle Ireland, but that's it)
     
  5. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    You could be right, the production issue might be what's preventing Polynesia from expanding. Those jungle tiles could all be changed to hills (with the jungles removed - the AI has a tendency to TP jungle tiles, irrespective of the terrain underneath) which might help and a few more atolls would do no harm. The happiness issue is only a concern for the human player. The AIs essentially ignore happiness but even if they didn't Monarchy makes it a non-issue anyway. Poly starts with Whales, Crab and Pearls IIRC which is 12 so the city would have to be above 18 before they run out of happiness from luxuries if Monarchy is in play. This, of course, ignores the difficulty level bonuses.

    I'm not as convinced with the gold issue - Polynesia can pick its settlement spots in most of the open areas for the first third of the game basically with no competition. I simply can't see how there isn't a gold-positive settlement site available to them early on. Buenos Aires is a gold mine, as is most of South America. The west coast of the US has some very nice spots as does southeast Asia while Australia has some choice locations as well. Plus, all of these locations have luxury resources they need - the AI should be settling there as a matter of priority.

    Also, bwoww made a comment earlier that Polynesia did have settlers, it simply wasn't using them and I did see something similar at one point. It imagine that this was after compass (as I couldn't have known otherwise) but I couldn't be positive.

    Well, I'd argue that Polynesia has first pick on a good number of goody huts, esp. those in Australia, New Zealand and other places besides because of their UA. You're right though, early wonders and a religion are not really on the cards and are likely to remain off them even with a production boost.

    With regards Australia etc. in my current game Persia (who has taken to settling everywhere) dropped a city in the Phillipines and another in Indonesia. Not quite Australia but they're definitely capable of expanding that far out.

    With exception to Ethiopia, Maya and Polynesia, those Civs in the top tier usually wind up there unless the game develops unusually. Ethiopia in particular I've rarely seen do anywhere near as well as that.

    With exception to Byzantium, those Civs in the bottom tier do usually wind up there as well. That said, I have seen Spain conquer northern Africa. I've yet to see Carthage, Germany, Inca or Arabs do anything other than poorly though. Byzantium is hit-and-miss - it very much depends on settlement patterns and how quickly they can get their army to a large size.



    One thing I've noticed, though perhaps its just my playstyle, is that you seem to go through techs faster than what you'd see on a default map. On Immortal I managed to get to the Industrial era with very little beelining before any other AI, including the Americans who were double the score and triple the cities of anyone else, as England with 3 cities. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?
     
  6. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    just a couple of suggestions. see attached screenshots...
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    The changes to central and south America look pretty solid. I assume you've added the two mountain tiles north of La Venta to prevent the Americans from walking quickly over them? The Mayan starting resources will need to be adjusted, as might La Venta's now that I look at it but it could very well solve the potential runaway American Civ issue.

    Manila I think is an easy add. Honolulu looks a bit odd there, but it should definitely make the more viable.
     
  8. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    thanks. and actually i just swapped the old Potosi location with a mountain, but you're absolutely right that the hope is to keep the Americans (and Iroquois) from running to far south...

    definitely. it's your map and you seem more well versed in AI expansion principles and resource balance. i would note that it might make sense to move El Dorado, maybe deeper into the Amazon... those natural wonders are big $$$ makers, which is really powerful in early game (especially with 2.. and the +4 faith bonus to natural wonders pantheon... just thinking out loud).

    either way, in this layout the incas/mayans are trapped into jungle conflict, which should slow any early runaways...

    it just seemed obvious. You might want to consider looking into reorganizing the city name priority of Polynesia, if that's something that irks you. personally, i could get over it. moreover, that seems above the scope of this mod (and definitely my modding skills).
     
  9. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    one last thought, while you're rearranging resource placement (assuming you go with the central america layout as is) i'd consider adding another plains/hill tile due east of the southern most central american sugar (hope that made sense...). this would add a little depth to central america and allow you to potentially play with the new Mayan "panama" placement resource type distribution a little more...
     
  10. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    Okay, version 4 is out. It incorporates pretty much all of the changes that we've talked about since the last release. The only thing I've left alone at the moment is Polynesia, I'm still not convinced that they can make a reasonable contribution to warrant their inclusion without drastic changes - like starting them in New Zealand or Australia.

    One really cool thing I found out is that it's possible to play this custom map with Steam achievements enabled by loading the game up without activating the Mod. I've included instructions on how I did it in the OP, but if this isn't news to everyone else and/or there's a better way of doing it, please let me know!

    I've also included two screenshots from my recent game as England (runaway US with strong India Russia, Mongolia and Songhai) in the Workshop but I'm still very interested in screens from other people's games if anyone has any that they'd like to share.

    In other news the G&K map has surpassed Vanilla map downloads with over 2,000 downloads on Steam! That might not be that big in comparison to the popularity of other, larger, Earth maps (Gedemon's has 12,000+) but I'm reasonably positive that this is now the most popular standard-sized Earth map for Civ V. There's a potential exception to Smellymummy's cordiform map that's included in Gedemon's map collection but I think regardless of where it's placed, it's been a pretty successful venture. A venture that certainly would not have been anywhere near as successful, nor as good, without the valuable contributions from everyone in this thread.
     
  11. bwoww78

    bwoww78 Warlord

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    do you mind updating the OP screenshot of the WB map? i'm not going to be near a civ-ready computer for a while, but i'm interested to see how the new version looks, civ/cs/resource placement changes and all.
    thanks!
     
  12. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    Sure thing.

    Also, you might be interested in this Let's Play which is based on version 4.

    Edit: Done. I've changed it to a url link to the file on the imgur site, largely to save on CFC space but it has the added benefit of being bigger than the previous version. Also, what happened your computer or are you just away from your gaming rig?
     
  13. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Where is the link to download the zip file? The link in the original post is for a RAR file.
     
  14. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    ZIP and RAR are just two different means of compacting a file. You may need WinRar to extract it.

    Alternatively, you can simply hit 'Subscribe' on the map in the Steam Workshop and it'll instantly download and install to your harddrive.
     
  15. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Ah thanks. That's the issue. I don't have that app.

    I've been searching for a standard size Earth map with correct civ starting positions so this looks interesting.
     
  16. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    No worries. Technically the WinRar you download is a trial version for 30 days but after the 30 days you just have to close the warning and it works as normal - archiving, extracting, exploring etc.

    Hope you enjoy the map, let me know what you think of it when you've given it a go.
     
  17. vibe96

    vibe96 Warlord

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    the map looks pretty good. but could you add the huns somewhere near the caspian sea. i also think that you should remove one of the european nations. like france
     
  18. Veneke

    Veneke King

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    The Huns have been suggested a few times and my opinion on them is mixed. I just don't know if their inclusion will be of benefit. It's rather cramped down where it's been suggested they start, even with Almaty removed.

    Europe is a little crowded but if any Civ was on the chopping block it would have to be Germany - they consistently fail to break out of Europe or survive the inevitable attacks from France/Russia.
     
  19. Lehnardtsson

    Lehnardtsson Chieftain

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    can you post the last version in this forum? My PC for play is not connected so I cannot donwload through the interface but rather do it during lunch time at my jobs computer :)
     
  20. vibe96

    vibe96 Warlord

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    How about this:

    Civs:
    France
    Germany
    Carthage
    Ethiopia
    Egypt
    Songhai
    Russia
    Mongolia
    Sweden
    India
    Arabia
    China

    City states:
    All you have in the map exept jerusalem
    native americat tribes
    london
    kyoto
    edinburgh
     

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