Standard deity playthrough (2)

[Pedro78]

Update to 640AD (2/3) :

Spoiler :

Built two caravels quickly (not too quickly though) and sent them in opposite directions.

On the same continent as Sitting Bull :

T136 (540AD) : GS #5 comes in for Astro bulb. Sitting Bull is getting his ass whopped by someone (down to 4 cities), and that someone for sure isn't Wang

Some more tech stealing the same turn :

I agree that stealing Mono was stupid... not sure why I did that

T137 (540AD) my good friend back to friendly : I decide to give him Philo, as he doesen't have Optics so he won't trade it around

The turn after he steals me Optics , he had already stolen me Compass the turn after I stole him Aesthetics, so we're about even...

@DrCron

Spoiler :

I think the closer to his capital, the bigger the bonus (I'm not sure though, read that in one of Lain's writeups). His capital is probably somewhere 6-7 tiles to the East (maybe a little south), as his second city is pretty close.

 

[Pedro78]

Update to 640AD (3/3) :

Spoiler :

Finally on T142 (640AD)...

...Astro...

...The big bully...

He's a nice guy, though

Good thing he's pretty late in tech, pulled him off Sitting Bull quickly :

And then did THE stupid mistake :

Which results in :

Really? The trade with SB was balanced though. I thought this thing only appeared when you gave a very favorable trade to the worst ennemy... Anyways he ain't gonna be a big trading partner I guess. And I already set up trades and OB beforehand.

Capital after switching to bureaucracy. Was only size 11 or 12 by 1AD though. Mostly because of health issues, but also partly due to iffy micromanagement.

Still 2 unmet guys, and they are getting all the good stuff... Someone's had philo and paper for a while, I'm not too sure about lib for this game. Maybe some guys like Pacal and Mansa teching like beasts... I can't do much about it until I meet them, though.

From now I plan on going Paper, then probably double bulbing education if I still have a chance for lib (still 3 GS incoming in the next ~20 turns), then I'll switch back from Caste to Slavery and will whip the hell out of the grown cities. Else I'll just go Military Tradition and wipe Augustus off the continent. At the same time build Oxford and tech to Cannons, then go after Sitting Bull / Shaka who are quite a bit behind in tech.
Edit : 3 GS will take more like 25 more turns in Caste + Pacifism, so I will only get 2, not 3 (Lake city + cornfish)

The game is going rather well, I don't feel like I deserve too much credit for that, though. Everything went almost as good as it possibly could, I even "discovered a source of Gems near Edirne" (on the western PH)... But well, let's see if I can win it from now.

A completely random question, if the game drags on for too long, are nukes considered cheesy?

 

[Lain]

My big update from 640 AD ... I read your update now luckily. So I will put 3rd spoiler for stuff you shouldn't know yet (I met all AIs already). Can open first + second spoilers though.

#1 Write up
#2 City overview
#3 Forbidden All-AI-Met-Spoiler (+tech screen)


#1 Write up

Spoiler :

Met Sitting Bull aswell, was a great help .





I teched something like... Monarchy -> Code of Laws -> Iron Working -> Compass... traded for Alpha from Augustus. After that, I put all cities to "Research" to self-tech Metal Casting and Machinery as quickly as possible, because GS were coming quickly, teching was the problem.

Was able to take the barb city, which got me to 8 cities ... I guess Augustus has enough, his 13 cities are slowing down his research a lot. And half of it is tundra... Honestly, it's almost not worth attacking him for that crap land and only Great Wall for wonders... what are you doing, Augustus?

Screenshot also shows that I am one turn away from getting Machinery + GS #3 ... this means I can instantly switch into Slavery and whip 2 Galleons.



Attempt to steal Currency failed miserably at 84% chance... that's why I hate spies.



Sitting Bull gave me what my spies couldn't.



275 AD I triple-bulbed Optics + 2x Astro -> Instant trade routes with Sitting Bull.



Also meant instant resource trades... that marble will be useful for National Epic. I start disbanding warriors to save money, because no need for them anymore.



Then I met Wang Kon and Shaka, nice resource trades from Shaka aswell. Got Aesthetics. Shaka and Sitting Bull are fighting each other, but nobody seems to be winning. Bureaucracy came 450 AD. After that beeline Paper -> Education ... my plan is Steel now (without Oxford) ...

Someone got Lib in 540 AD pff.

 

[Lain]

#2 City overview

Spoiler :

Istanbul: No academy yet but will come soon. Will be enough to get steel, no need for Oxford (+ I don't have stone... and no trees).



Edirne: Became a bit useless now, but strategically important for later war... and still a decent city. 1x Pig is better than 2x Fish anyway...



Ankara: Helper city that can't help anymore... except Augustus. He stole like 3 techs from here. You are welcome, my friend...



Bursa: Great production spot for later.



Konya: At the moment I am whipping spearmen into the National Epic (without forge ) to run scientists and finally get that academy in the capital. It will come before 1000 AD !! ... Maybe. Or actually I will start a golden age, grow another GS and boost my empire into steel. I am sick of anarchy.



Samsun: Decent little city, should have whipped a Harbor long ago... much more useful than Courthouse or growing on coast...



Gaziantep: Making up the numbers, but can be okay later. Why didn't I settle it 1N? No idea. Won a hill, lost access to river... Not the biggest deal since most river tiles belong to the capital anyway. And I will just whip this place into darkness.



Uzbek: New acquisition from the Barbarians... the horses got a nice price on the Astro market. And at least Augustus didn't get it. 8 vs 13 cities sounds much better than 7 vs 14 somehow, doesn't it?



Also going to settle #9 (SW of capital, no resources but Astro trade routes make it useful anyway) soon.

!! #3 Tech screen and world !!

Spoiler :

Overview:

If Augustus is the score-leader here, the game should be in a good position. Could have become ugly if the English leader was Victoria and not Elizabeth. Phew. Generally, we have 3 continents

Me + Augustus
Wang Kong, Shaka, Sitting Bull ... I call them the douche-bag sandwich-continent
Elizabeth (Hindu founder, strange one) + Asoka (Buddhist founder) ... but totally peaceful





Tech screen ... Asoka with 5 cities won Lib. And he has most wonders. Now I think I know who will be the first target here. This is like the best scenario possible. Reward for suffering earlier.





Resource trades

@DrCron: I figured Augustus would settle there eventually and I hadn't scouted the other edge, so roaming around with the settler for several turns while 10 Praets are sitting on my borders, didn't feel very comfortable. That was the #1 way to lose the game. Augustus is peaceful and I wouldn't have given up if he declared, but why risk it? Giving a mediocre city (no real resources there) in exchange seemed like a small price to pay.

@Pedro78 : You got Astro a bit later, but your empire is better set up now with academy + religion. Should be able to tech up quite nicely now.

Just some random thoughts from me:

I do wonder about Philosophy AND Academy though. You have saved up 1600 gold !! I guess from waiting for the GS to come in? That's a bit of a shame. I mean, it's a great position anyway. But would be interesting to know if skipping Philosophy (or Academy) and getting Astro 5-10 turns earlier might have been better here. You got the academy, but delayed getting Civil Service while waiting for the bulb. Also means you will race to Steel (or MT) now and make up for the time, but I don't know.

To be honest, I am not convinced about Philosophy here. You will have new trading partners now and a friendly Augustus won't be a big deal anymore. It's great @ 500 BC but later, I don't know. Pacifism is nice, but I was shocked about the upkeep for the warriors lol . Not a good synergy there. And it's a bit of a pain to build missionaries and spread the religion... by the time everything is set up, maybe without Philosophy you would have been faster anyway.
Having a religion is also a problem with other AI not being happy about it later. I don't like playing without a religion because of all the little bonuses, but maybe it's not the most important thing. I didn't miss it in this game so far.

I like the academy for sure though. I wish I had made an academy... Astro would have come a bit later, but I think... 450 AD Astro + academy > 250 AD Astro + no academy. That's the one thing I would change about my game if I could. Well and this Astro time is without religion, without marble, without a philosophical leader. Could be much better with a Gandhi. Not complaining about Mehmed though, cheaper Granaries, Lighthouses, Courthouses, Harbors... it's almost perfect for a map like this.

So short version: I like the academy, but I have my doubts about Philosophy. Be interesting if you replayed from 500 BC (do you have a save?) and just ignore Philosophy, would your position be even stronger now? All that being said, I think you played a great game so far. Ok a bit lucky with some trades maybe, but you also make your own luck in a way ... if you didn't reach CoL so early, you would have missed the trade. And getting into that position was a good play in itself.

Also Semi Isolation is not trivial at all. I had a situation some months ago where I won "normal" Deity games (Cuirs, Cannons etc) but lost Isolation on Immortal. It's a totally different game and not straightforward. And for having not much experience with this kind of setup, I think you are doing brilliantly . See no reason why you couldn't win with normal units. Nukes shouldn't be needed I don't think

I also wouldn't worry about bulbing Education etc. Basically you could open the tech tree and click on Steel now. And just go there. With 9 cities a golden age might actually be stronger than bulb. You will get Education in like 7 turns and Chemistry in 8 . Use that gold for research before Shaka demands it

 

[Pedro78]

Wow. Impressive... You're even gonna get Steel before me lol. I still have a lot to learn . The only good that getting philo made me is that it might allow me to get lib.
Haven't look at the third spoiler nor at your save yet, will continue playing and see how it turns out.

Edit :
@Lain
I played quite a bit more tonight, until 1470AD, if you wanna continue ^^. Will take time to reply and writeup tomorrow

 

[Lain]

I am at 1000 (1010) AD. Academy finally ready . I will try to catch up tomorrow and write more then.

 

[Lain]

Big update 1470 AD

Spoiler :

940 AD: Golden Age with cheeky switch into Islam and Pacifism for 8 turns to quickly get out another GS and build the academy in the capital. I don't even want to know how many beakers were wasted there.





Backfilling techs trading with the new guys. Beelining Steel, planning to follow up with Grenadiers and hit Asoka. Capital finally fulfilling its potential somewhat.



Then the next troll of the game happens. England = 1700 Score ... India = 1400 Score. Makes sense for him to peace-vassal...



Well I change plans and decide to hit Sitting Bull... knowing very well how painful it will be. He has Rifles already, but almost everyone (except) Shaka has them or is close, so it doesn't matter. I scouted the war between Sitting Bull and Shaka and nothing really happened, but I attacked from the other side so I hoped to grind him down quickly.



Actually, it does matter. 7 super-protective Rifles are guarding his hill capital. I landed on the hill next to it, going straight for the throat. Nobody has Astro yet (big benefit from being there first, discourages the AI from pursuing it) so my ships are safe for now. Teching Rifling to back up the army in case he gets Cavalry and stuff. When I think about it now, going Rifles was a waste of time.



Had to bring reinforcements, but I took the capital and "only" lost like 8 cannons...



Even against non-hill cities, some top odds for my cannons there. Lost 5.





Going for Sci Meth -> Biology now, hoping for trades from that. War is dragging on. I have to make a tactical retreat because there are still 12 units in a random city. Shaka is still at war, providing about zero help. I hate Sitting Bull. Really, really hate him as AI in all games.



2nd stack in the north has more success though



But he isn't cracking at all, still fielding strong defenses in the next city.



Yet more reinforcements arrive and finally, he is down to two cities. Bribed Shaka off already as a precaution, he actually took a city aswell.





Even at 2 cities, he doesn't consider capitulating. At this point, it doesn't matter though. Fueled by hate, I wipe him out completely. 1460 AD he is gone.



Meanwhile, I reached Biology and nobody had it yet. Decided to cash in after the war was over. Traded for Communism and Steam Power. Switched into State Property before the oversea city maintenance kicks in hard.





Overview of the old and new land:





What now? Asoka broke free for now but who knows when he will channel his inner coward again. Really thought about going for Shaka next, he is far behind in tech. But he has lots and lots of old troops, would take some time to take them out. Meanwhile Elizabeth is going for culture, so I will leave Shaka alone and tech up to Factories, probably send Infantry/Artillery or Tanks + Aircraft, if I have enough time. With 16 cities and a great capital I might be quick enough. 2nd Golden Age should be ready soon.

Tech situation:



Would be nice to get a foothold on the continent by taking out Asoka first (7 cities) if he doesn't peace-vassal again. My warrior is scouting for good landing possibilities in the future



Thoughts about the AI here... in order of threat for the remaining game:

Elizabeth (11 cities): Has most of the wonders and is starting to become a threat for a cultural victory. Luckily, her 3rd city seems rather weak (still 100+ turns away). But she is still teching so if she turns down the slider, it will be way quicker. She has 6 religions in all cities. Have to prepare for that, which is why I opted against a war against Shaka for now. Her being on another continent with a potential peace-vassal makes it much harder to contain her. The landing has to be a strong one with an army of at least 100 brave units.

Asoka (7 cities): If she won't win culture, he would be next in line. Also lots of wonders and with Elizabeth as a disctration, the little rat might just try and sneak a backdoor culture victory aswell. Hoping to put an end to their insolence soon.

Wang Kon (11 cities): Strong techer and untouched the whole game. But he doesn't have many wonders and it should be easy to contain him in the later game, if necessary. He won't be going to space for a while.

Augustus (14 cities): Our friend and neighbor since the start of the game. Has been plotting for a while, can't be on me though. I think he might take a punt on Shaka. Really, most of his land is pure garbage and sure, he would go to space eventually with this many cities, but it's easy enough to reach him with him being so close and all that.

Shaka (10 cities): Huge, but outdated army. He is pleased with me and might even hit friendly eventually. I hope we can be friends forever since anyone else is more dangerous than him. I hope he and Augustus beat each other senseless while I take care of the culture threats.

 

[Fippy]

More great reads from Lain

 

[Pedro78]

Okay, time for a big time update.

@Lain that's impressive. You manage to keep a very strong game even though you keep having bad luck.

Sorry for the repeated posting, but I can't upload more than 10 screenshots per post...

Update to the end of the game (1826AD), Part I :

Spoiler :

680AD big Shaka declares on 3-cities Sitting Bull once again . The fact that Sitting Bull is very hard to capitulate has helped me a lot throughout the game, ironically enough .

700AD I meet Asoka and Lizzy... why did the random generator put Augustus instead of Asoka on my continent

The tech screen :

No guts no glory, I decide to take a shot at lib. Getting philo this early probably slowed down the whole tech pace.

Now the insane luck goes on :

I trade some (relatively) cheap iron to Lizzy :

She pays me back with a +4 "our trade relations have been fair and forthright" diplo bonus, and guess what...

I didn't know such a thing could even happen lol.

I decide to single bulb Education and use the next GS for a golden age. Tech path from 640AD is Paper-Nationalism-Edu(3 turns)-PP-bulb Edu-lib MT. It maybe was a bit cocky to tech Nationalism first, but whatever.

The tech screen once I get Education (~860AD) :

The capital is now kinda doing its job :

About war plans :

At this point I plan on going MT and taking out Augustus, I will be at 20+ cities when I'm done with him, so I will have the hammers to take the Shaka continent and win domination, probably with tanks. I decided to completely ignore the teching continent, the idea being that "There is no way they can win space before I win domination", the idea that Lizzy could win culture had completely gone off my mind...

1 turn away from lib, I get Gunpowder from Asoka... damn he was close to Edu

Shaka takes another city to SB, have to pull him off before he snowballs... that's expansive.

Some trades with far-behind-Wang :

Finally:

And wait, what? Nobody has banking yet.

So I tech my way to Economics while building (whipping) a bunch of cuirs.

Edit :

Spoiler :

Oh and Asoka did peace vassal to Lizzy too in my game, I don't recall when it was exactly, though. Probably was in the 1200s or 1300s. It didn't surprise me as he only had 4 or 5 cities at the time vs Elisabeth's 11.

 

[Pedro78]

Update to the end of the game, Part II :

Spoiler :

While I was building tons of cuirs, Augustus somehow gets cuirs too. I don't want to attack a 15-city guy without any tech lead. So I tech my way to rifling.

The GM from Economics helped out a little (only 1700 from the overseas Temple of Artemis city? )

In 1200AD I finally attack with ~30 Cavalry and ~15 cuirs

This was a loong and painful war, which I didn't manage very well (a lot of sloppy play). Took 26 turns for him to disappear from the continent. Thankfully, he had Astro already and did settle some crappy island city miles away from here, so I could get his cities, capitulate him and get his techs.

His land isn't all that crappy after all. He had at least 8-9 very strong cities.

Meanwhile I realize that there is something called "culture victory", and that Lizzy is getting closer to it. Plus she already has infantry, so there is no way I can take her out early... So I decide to change the worldwide diplo situation a little.

After bribing Shaka off Wang (he had been beating on him for a while, but I didn't even notice as I was busy minding my own business...). I bribe him on Lizzy, so that she keeps teching and doesen't go full Culture.

That's a bit expansive, but whatever... he is a slow techer and his overexpansion seems to slow him down even more. Now I plan on teching to tanks as fast as possible while recovering from the war against the Romans. Then win quick domination by taking the other continent.

A couple of turns later, Lizzy (or Asoka?) bribes Wang on Shaka. I decide that it's fine as I'm not afraid of a strong Shaka anymore. Later on I realize that it might end up in Shaka making peace with Lizzy . So I bribe him off once again :

Culture threat is getting closer :

My vassal proves useful, as he Wang trades techs with him, but I get the "we fear you are becoming too advanced thing" :

Also got Physics from him later on.

After building some Galleons, I decide to pay a little visit to my friend Sitting Bull, as I wanna get a foothold on the continent :

The war wasn't nearly as long as it had been with Augustus .

1565AD - OMG, looks like there isn't anything in the world a 20-city-angry-Shaka can't do

Makes me loose my Hit Musicals lol.

As far as economy goes...

I got Corporation from Augustus, then got to Assembly Line ASAP and whipped factories + coal plants everywhere while teching communism. Then quickly switched to SP + CS and built research / wealth. Research seemed to stagnate at ~1600BPT after that.

 

[Pedro78]

Update to the end of the game, Part III :

Spoiler :

1595AD - the funny games are over, Lizzy has got her capital back

My Hermitage-whipping went pretty well ^^

A shot of the soon to be IW city by the way.

Lizzy built the UN, but Shaka got elected as the secretary. The little punk tried to make peace with Lizzy using the UN... I said NO

Then I order every city that had a Factory + Coal Plant + Barracks to build tanks, waiting for the others to get factories and power. I should have built way more ships as Shaka destroyed some of my seafood, and a transport full of tanks.
I attacked with only ~20 tanks as Shaka didn't have Assembly Line yet (although he got it 3 turns later), and kept fueling the "new world" with tanks, using 4 or 5 transports in the 3 tiles of sea between the two continents. The +1 ship movement from proving that the Earth is round did help a lot there.

Only 30 turns left :

Shaka taking London at some point eventually didn't change much...


I don't have too many pictures of the Shaka war, but I tried to play it as carefully as I could, in order to get Domination ASAP. Later on I decided to tech to nukes and raze some of Lizzy's culture cities in case I couldn't get Domination quickly enough. Keeping her at war with Shaka during the whole game really helped out.

After a painful 2 turns of Anarchy, I bribed Lizzy out of Free Speech, which slowed her down a little.

I litterally rolled over Shaka. He probably had sent some of his SoDs towards Lizzy, there was rarely more than 20 troops guarding his cities. He even had some cities guarded by only 4 or 5 infantries.

 

[Pedro78]

Update to the end of the game, Part IV :

Spoiler :

Who doesen't love CRIII tanks?

Okay so now Shaka is down to 8 cities, and I don't want him to capitulate to Lizzy, this would really screw me up :

Damn that's cheap, she really is a pushover when it comes to war

My 40+ cities allowed me to elect myself as the UN secretary general. Why not try for a diplo win?

Eeeehh... nope

Meanwhile, my nasty plan keeps going...

However... what a *************.

Well, can I really blame her for getting the SDI this late? Probably not...

I am getting closer to victory, but so is Lizzy :

Okay, let's take another shot at Diplo victory :

Nope

 

[Pedro78]

Update to the end of the game, Part V (final) :

Spoiler :

Bye bye, Shaka

Last GP born in the old triple seafood-pig city, I trigger a golden age and turn the culture slider up (which I should have done a while ago already...)

The same turn I rushbuyed a couple of ICBMs in case things go out of control (that's really cheesy lol).

After Shaka was dead, I immediately attacked Wang. Can the suspense drag any longer?

Lizzy is reaaally close... but it is over already

I had a transport loaded with tanks waiting at Lizzy's border (her third culture city is coastal) and ~10 nukes ready to blow, so there actually wasn't all that much of a gamble

The stats and score :

Well... I wasn't playing for a high score anyways, right?

Edit : my thoughts on this game

Spoiler :

When I look back at it, it really shouldn't have been hard to win, had I made the right moves from the start. My game was slowed down by a lot of sloppy play, and some wrong decisions. This game (along with Lain ^^) did teach me a lot, though.

Most things are about micro-management, especially growing the capital quicker for bigger long-term , which I didn't really do very well this game.
Then it's about (semi) isolation and how to get Astro, on diplo management and so on...

One thing I am still concerned about is the philo bulb. In complete isolation it is definitely off the table, but here I feel like it has somehow helped me. My game's tech pace was much slower than yours, Lain (except for Astro, as everyone had it pretty soon). The 960AD lib date, although it was partly due to luck, has definitely been helped by getting philo sooner. My point is that, even though bulbing philo does definitely not pay off in the short term, it might have saved me enough turns to avoid Lizzy from winning culture (there is no question that, even without bulbing philo, one could pull this off with solid diplo / tech / war management).

Anyways, that was a really fun game, can't wait to see how this turns out for you, Lain

 

[Pedro78]

@Lain, about your game and comparing strategies

Spoiler :

We took completely different paths, and it also looks like your game has been much harder than mine, mostly because of the faster tech pace.
We already discussed the benefits/harm of bulbing philo, now I'd like to talk about war strategies.


We had close dates to the big milestones (except Astro ), except Augustus didn't have rifles when I attacked him in 1200AD. Did your Augustus have rifles already? Mine didn't have Replaceable Parts yet. I think that from there going Cavalry was the most obvious choice (much quicker than Cannons, and no risk of getting stuck against rifles, +he had horses and his cuirs would have been lethal to my cannons). Now in your game, Steel + going after Asoka seemed obvious, too bad he peace vassaled to Lizzy.

Now, why did you attack Sitting Bull rather than Augustus? I am not 100% sure that attacking Augustus was the better choice, but you would have got more cities out of him, and taking out Sitting Bull and Shaka later on would have been much easier. Especially as Augustus doesen't have any horses in your game, so he can't build cavalry and destroy your cannons.

From where you are I am not sure about the best strategy to adopt. I think I would go to Assembly Line and Artillery to hit Asoka before he peace vassals again, vassal him and grab his techs. Lizzy will be much harder to take out, but as she only has 11 cities you might be able to take her out with numbers. The main problem will most likely be transporting troops to the other side of the world.

As far as teching goes, you seem to be a bit more advanced than I was in 1470AD (I didn't have Communism nor Steel). Again, I think you really handled it well, especially considering all the bad luck you've had.

 

[soundjata]

uncle Drew... No nukes?

 

[Lain]

1560 AD Loss

Spoiler :

No comment How to prevent that? Run Theocracy all game? Random Buddhism spread in my city 3 turns ago and gg. Ironically if I had capitulated Sitting Bull this couldn't have happened probably.

Well, I just started building Factories and got Oxford. Elizabeth was winning culture in 40 turns but I am pretty sure I could have stopped that. With Infantry+Artillery (I had no oil for tanks lol).

Sums up the bad luck in this game though. Couldn't even switch into Buddhism or spread the religion because it spread right when I had "civic switch cool down" from switching into Caste System at the beginning of golden age. Also in Free Religion so can't switch into Buddhism for more votes either. I could have stayed in Organized Religion (and lose beakers from Free Religion) to prevent this from happening maybe. Will do that from now on in games like this.

 

[Pedro78]

@Lain

Spoiler :

OMG that's just insane... I didn't even know AIs could win AP games. To be honest I don't even know how the AP works . How can it be that you only had 13 votes, as you probably had more pop than Lizzy who got 109 votes? How is it tied to Buddhism spreading to your cities? (I guess the AP religion was Buddhism, but I don't really get the mechanics behind that...)

Not even mentioning that you didn't deserve that, as you had the game in a very winnable position regardless of all the bad luck you've had. At least you will have taught me a great deal of civ-knowledge throughout this game. During the whole game I was watching you teching faster than me with fewer cities and a lot of bad luck .

@soundjata
Well no need to kill the planet when you don't have to

 

[Lain]

You basically get votes for every city with AP religion. I had one city = only 13 votes. You can double (I think) the votes if you are in the AP religion. Nobody was in Buddhism, but Asoka/Elizabeth had Buddhism in all their cities, so they get much more votes.

AP victory vote can only be called if every civ has the AP religion somewhere in their empire. Basically, Buddhism randomly spread to everyone and after it did, the vote became available. Of course I didn't think about it at all, but not sure how to stop that.

1535 AD I started Golden Age and switched into Caste System (to build Factories faster with better workshops) and I was in Free Religion already.

After ending the turn, Buddhism spread to my city -> can't do anything. Normally, you could maybe whip missionaries quickly. Oh, actually I don't have to lose here.

If I gift my city with Buddhism to someone, vote is abandoned and game continues. Hmmmmmmm should I do this and continue? Lol I guess it's reload, but I could have thought about it before giving up. Nah, I think I give up. Should have thought about it before and even if I win, it won't feel like a real win.

Just have to be more careful about AP victories in the future . I will write something more about your game later, but good job on the win. Didn't need the nukes either, so I think you did great. Don't think you were "lucky" or anything, it's more like I had a bit of bad luck, but could still have won probably. Maybe I didn't deserve to lose, but you played a great game aswell and deserved to win anyway

Could do this to continue here.

Spoiler :

Well I call gg and re. Next time I see Asoka I will make a Shaka-beeline across the continent just to kill him.

 

[Pedro78]

I don't think anyone could blame you for reloading on this one, looking at how ridiculous this loss is. Would definitely be interesting to see how your game turns out.

Oh now I understand what "AP cheese" is. Basically you just beeline Theology, build the AP and spread Christiannity to a crappy city of each AI, then switch into the AP religion and vote for yourself, right?

 

[elmurcis]

Reason why I play games on huge only with 17 starting AI - most games impossible to have AP win "random way" at all. And if I go for it, atleast it takes lot of time and effort I don't feel "cheesy" that much as on Standard size with just 7-9 AI