Standard Speed is way too fast!

[Dawnpromise]

I normally play on Epic/Huge speed and maps. Given how so many people were complaining about happiness issues, which I had been having no trouble with in my games, I tried to play a game at standard speed and map size to see if had something to do with game speed or map size.

HOW DO YOU PEOPLE PLAY AT THIS PACE?!

There's no time to build anything before the next tech rolls out. I'm halfway through constructing building or unit and a new tech rolls in throwing me further and further behind the curve. No wonder people are having issues the game is blitzing by and there's no time to react or build anything.

I didn't even get a good chance to scout my surrounding area before I had to pick my first social policy. How am I supposed to decide that if I have no idea where my neighbors are at or what the local geography is?

I'm probably going back to epic speed and staying there but I felt like sharing my thoughts on this.

 

[chicorbeef]

The rate of tech speed relative to building construction should be the same for Epic/Standard, no?

I think you're probably just frizzled out at having techs researched faster than you expect, but the time to build a building also gets reduced.

That point about the first social policy is absolutely true though. You have to just use your judgement and see what's good based off the last 20 turns of scouting. It isn't that bad.
Sometimes you can tell immediately what policy you're going to pick (eg. coastal monopoly=Progress in most cases for me)

I think the change from huge map to standard map actually could be even more impactful on your game.

I don't understand people who play at Marathon, btw. Imagine spending 500 turns on a game only to find out midway that you're screwed. Or, if you spend the first 150 turns of the game unhappy, then that would be 450 painful turns on Marathon. Sheesh.

 

[Hosannah]

I only play multiplayer and we usually play small\quick...

 

[Dawnpromise]

The rate of tech speed relative to building construction should be the same for Epic/Standard, no?

I think you're probably just frizzled out at having techs researched faster than you expect, but the time to build a building also gets reduced.

That point about the first social policy is absolutely true though. You have to just use your judgement and see what's good based off the last 20 turns of scouting. It isn't that bad.
Sometimes you can tell immediately what policy you're going to pick (eg. coastal monopoly=Progress in most cases for me)

I think the change from huge map to standard map actually could be even more impactful on your game.

I don't understand people who play at Marathon, btw. Imagine spending 500 turns on a game only to find out midway that you're screwed. Or, if you spend the first 150 turns of the game unhappy, then that would be 450 painful turns on Marathon. Sheesh.

Actually it seems like production values may be a bit off when comparing standard/epic speed. Science seems to progress much slower I'm guessing maybe 2.5 times cost of standard while culture and build times are only about twice of standard. I think the only problem epic speed has is that culture is too fast compared to science and I'd rather it be slowed up a bit.

I do agree that Marathon is too slow. I already chafe waiting for open borders tech in Epic speed. Marathon would be what 500+ turns of being locked to my own borders? No thanks.

 

[CrazyG]

In theory buildings should be going about the same speed.

You do get fewer turns with units, meaing slower scouting and slower wars. Its not uncommon for me to have part of my army be outdated while fighting.

 

[peterw1987]

Why coastal monopoly=progress? I think progress is stronger without coastal monopoly due to worker and tile improvement speed policy. IMO, it is tradition that benefit from coastal monopoly, since you dont need worker to improve resource which take forever without progress policy and pyramid. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[peterw1987]

And for the topic, I am currently fine with standard speed. Even with standard speed, it feels like forever to reach industrial era. I cannot imagine playing epic speed.

 

[Moi Magnus]

I normally play on Epic/Huge speed and maps. Given how so many people were complaining about happiness issues, which I had been having no trouble with in my games, I tried to play a game at standard speed and map size to see if had something to do with game speed or map size.

HOW DO YOU PEOPLE PLAY AT THIS PACE?!

There's no time to build anything before the next tech rolls out. I'm halfway through constructing building or unit and a new tech rolls in throwing me further and further behind the curve. No wonder people are having issues the game is blitzing by and there's no time to react or build anything.

I didn't even get a good chance to scout my surrounding area before I had to pick my first social policy. How am I supposed to decide that if I have no idea where my neighbors are at or what the local geography is?

I'm probably going back to epic speed and staying there but I felt like sharing my thoughts on this.

Note that epic is the exception.
For some reason, tech cost in epic have a +30% (additionnaly to the regular scaling):

If I remember correctly, the number are approximatively the following:
Quick / Standard / Epic / Marathon
Science production is:
50%, 100%, 150%, 300%
Science cost is:
50%, 100%, 200%, 300%

Social policies -> In standard, I usually choose depending on what I want to play. I usually don't have enough info to make a rationnal decision, so the tree I will chose is decided on turn 0.

Tech and building -> You may be over-evaluating science. In standard, science is usefull, but far less than in epic, since you really really don't want to fall behind in buildings, so production is sometimes more relevant than science. However, note than in games where you are the runaway player, you will usually have enough gold to invest in every buildings, and that's the only way you can keep up with science.

 

[Hinin]

Well, we all have our habits : I'm so used to play in strategic view that, even when playing on a computer that isn't a toaster like mine, I can't stand playing in normal view (too much visual effects, it hurts my eyes ).
Other than that, I've been playing with epic speed for quite a long time (for I wanted unique units to last longer), but I switched to standard speed a while ago, and, even though I had some difficulties adapting to the pace of the first games, I finally got used to it. You just need to make each of your actions more decisive, and you'll sometimes have to choose buildings that won't be built before a while (similarly to what can happen in Endless Legend).

 

[hr_oskar]

Um, I'm going to have to counter that with:

STANDARD SPEED IS WAY TOO SLOW!

Each game just takes way too long for my taste, because about half through the game I'm already itching to try a new civ and new strategy. I really don't get the epic / marathon crowd.

So I'm actually switching over to quick speed on small maps.

 

[Infixo]

@Moi Magnus It seems that current version of VP uses 150 / 300 for tech scaling due to game speed. But it is true that these used to be bigger in the past.

 

[adac]

I asked a similar question not too long ago (how to slow down tech advancement) and have been pleased with the suggestions I got. It's probably a bit easier and not what the game was balanced around but it works for how I like to play. More time to enjoy each era, not as far behind on buildings, able to actually use Renaissance units before they are obsolete, etc. You might try it and see what you think; you only have to edit one file and I put the edits I am using for 4-30 version in the thread (I claim no credit for the idea, it's based on an older thread by Enginseer):

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/easy-way-to-slow-down-tech-rate-globally.631889/

Edit: I realized it's not explicitly spelled out which file to edit and how to get there in the thread. The file is TechCostChanges.sql; (for my installation of CIV5 at least) the path to the file is C:\Users\<your windows username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Tech

 

[Dawnpromise]

I asked a similar question not too long ago (how to slow down tech advancement) and have been pleased with the suggestions I got. It's probably a bit easier and not what the game was balanced around but it works for how I like to play. More time to enjoy each era, not as far behind on buildings, able to actually use Renaissance units before they are obsolete, etc. You might try it and see what you think; you only have to edit one file and I put the edits I am using for 4-30 version in the thread (I claim no credit for the idea, it's based on an older thread by Enginseer):

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/easy-way-to-slow-down-tech-rate-globally.631889/

Edit: I realized it's not explicitly spelled out which file to edit and how to get there in the thread. The file is TechCostChanges.sql; (for my installation of CIV5 at least) the path to the file is C:\Users\<your windows username>\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Balance Changes\Tech

You do realize I was the one in that thread who pointed you at Enginseer's work right? I'm aware of how to edit the tech costs I was mostly just venting/sharing feedback on my experience of trying standard speed to see what the balance there was like.

 

[adac]

You do realize I was the one in that thread who pointed you at Enginseer's work right? I'm aware of how to edit the tech costs I was mostly just venting/sharing feedback on my experience of trying standard speed to see what the balance there was like.

Oh, obviously didn't realize that. I didn't actually go back through the thread today and note who had replied to me at the time, was just trying to pass along what had helped me.

 

[hr_oskar]

You do realize I was the one in that thread who pointed you at Enginseer's work right? I'm aware of how to edit the tech costs I was mostly just venting/sharing feedback on my experience of trying standard speed to see what the balance there was like.

For what it's worth, I think it's normal to get an uncomfortable feeling when switching to a different game speed. Particularly to a faster speed. You lose your bearings a bit and feel like you're behind, like you're missing the train again and again. I get this feeling whenever I go from standard speed to quick. But I think it's just a feeling and it with more play at the new game speed you should adjust and then maybe like the new setting more in the end.

 

[adac]

Oh, obviously didn't realize that. I didn't actually go back through the thread today and note who had replied to me at the time, was just trying to pass along what had helped me.

Sure enough, it was absolutely you who pointed me straight to Enginseer's thread. Sorry about that, should have checked before replying!

 

[Dawnpromise]

Sure enough, it was absolutely you who pointed me straight to Enginseer's thread. Sorry about that, should have checked before replying!

It's no problem. But if you do happen to find out a way to slow down tech costs, or alternatively reduce build costs for normal speed I'd be happy to hear it.

 

[Owlbebach]

There's no time to build anything before the next tech rolls out. I'm halfway through constructing building or unit and a new tech rolls in throwing me further and further behind the curve. No wonder people are having issues the game is blitzing by and there's no time to react or build anything.

I think this is what makes Standard much more intetersting. This is true that you can't build a lot of buildings, which means you have to choose the right one to build. This is exactly why Epic is so much easier - the game does not punish you for making bad decisions

In theory buildings should be going about the same speed.

They are, but thing is that you kinda snowball better. Each bulding boost building speed directly or indirectly (like more food ->more citizen -> more production). At the start of the game it takes twice as much time to build something compared to Standard. But by the end of the game you can build everything about as fast as on Standard because you have more population and more buildings

 

[Hinin]

The proposition below is made on the assumption that the yield scalings from Standard to Epic aren't the same for all yields. If they are the same, sorry for the annoyance.

I don't know if it is possible, but maybe a new speed could be introduced which would have exactly exactly is the same 'between yield' ratio as standard, but would scale them for games of the same length as those with Epic speed (each population would require more food, each building/unit more production/gold etc) : you wouldn't have more populations or buildings in the end game than in a Standard speed game, but you would have more turns between unit upgrades, like in Epic.

This way, players who like how Epic speed plays out would still be able to finish all buildings and players who simply want longer military campaigns but don't like how things are currently scaled for epic would also have their play field.

For the name, since it is similar in Epic in many ways, the name could be related to literature genres... Maybe Saga ?

 

[Dawnpromise]

I don't know if it is possible, but maybe a new speed could be introduced which would have exactly exactly is the same 'between yield' ratio as standard, but would scale them for games of the same length as those with Epic speed (each population would require more food, each building/unit more production/gold etc) : you wouldn't have more populations or buildings in the end game than in a Standard speed game, but you would have more turns between unit upgrades, like in Epic.

This way, players who like how Epic speed plays out would still be able to finish all buildings and players who simply want longer military campaigns but don't like how things are currently scaled for epic would also have their play field.

For the name, since it is similar in Epic in many ways, the name could be related to literature genres... Maybe Saga ?

Before I played VP I often played with a 'speed repacing' mod from the Steam Workshop that reduced build/unit costs but kept tech/policy costs the same. So adding new speeds is definitely possible. Calculating for the appropriate values however would be the complicated part I think.

EDIT: Here's a link to the mod I'm talking about on the Workshop.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=78052871&searchtext=speed