Star Wars Insurrection PBEM

[kobayashi]

While Darius may have explained the inadequacies of city bribing, I might add that it simply requires a different strategic scheme from what he has been doing.

As SWIns is a island game, it is not that hard to defend against diplomatic units. The proper defence is to deploy space based defences with proper recon to sweep for transport craft. Another general rule to go by is to never keep your ships in cities or over concentrate your ground forces in vulnerable frontier cities. Instead, Darius has a habit of over-concentrating his ships and relying on ground based defenses. Making railroads everywhere is a double-edged sword which allows massive bribery.

On the otherhand, city bribery is not as easy as it sounds. It costs a lot of energy and I have had to sell many improvements and reduce my research considerably. I no longer produce any veteran fighters because I sold all my hyperspace gates. If I hadn't sold research facilities and reduced my research rate, I would already have a few Eclipse battleships on hand right now.

And to be fair, IIRC Darius started using city bribing before me, it the Battle of CSA, circa 58a ANA (though Ohwell was the first to use it in Corellia)

 

[Darius]

Another general rule to go by is to never keep your ships in cities or over concentrate your ground forces in vulnerable frontier cities. Instead, Darius has a habit of over-concentrating his ships and relying on ground based defenses.

This is simply not true; all of my defenses in the Corellian sector are evenly distributed throughout all three cities, not foolishly concentrated in one. My core worlds were also defended correctly, as you experienced, since so many of my troops were in Coruscant and Vladet to counterattack against you. If I had two dozen units in Balmorra and infantry everywhere else then you'd have a point, but that obviously wasn't the case or I would have lost. Hoth was an exception, because it was recently captured, not to mention that it had no other cities nearby to distribute forces to.

On the otherhand, city bribery is not as easy as it sounds. It costs a lot of energy and I have had to sell many improvements and reduce my research considerably. I no longer produce any veteran fighters because I sold all my hyperspace gates. If I hadn't sold research facilities and reduced my research rate, I would already have a few Eclipse battleships on hand right now.

That was more for the core worlds attack I'd imagine; how much did Hoth cost?

And to be fair, IIRC Darius started using city bribing before me, it the Battle of CSA, circa 58a ANA (though Ohwell was the first to use it in Corellia)

I conceded this myself and noted that it only got me TWO UNITS. You have bribed dozens of units altogether, and furthermore R2s were only desperate last resorts in the case of Corellia and the CSA, whereas for you they are the main pillar of your entire offensive strategy.

Regardless of all this, I see no need to defend myself. I've made my final decision and my position on the issue is clear. Furthermore my position is accepted by others; the very reason I've left is also the reason no one is willing to join the game:

The Overlord wrote on Nov 03, 2002 05:20 AM:
It looks like you found someone already, well to be honest I'm glad you did because I doesn't like the direction the game had taken either. It's really absurd to invest thousands of thousands of credits in the defence only for a lousy little R2 to buy it. I followed your game from the beginning as I said I'm a huge SW-fan and I agree with you it looked like a good game to follow full of action but the last turns were really ridiculous. I understand your decision to leave because this way all armies would become obsolete, you only have to build R2's and buy the entire enemy, oh . There's no fun in it. The whole SW-atmosphere is being crippled and to think of a R2 buying an Imperial-garrison is making me laugh at best.

I hope the same stupidity doesn't happen in our game as well, I'm not sure yet do we have agreed on a R2-ban? I hope so because this could destroy the whole fun in our game too.

With best regards

Originally posted by academia
Hi everyone!!

Oh oh... we have a problem here.
I have experience with the "bribing cities/units" strategy... and I hate it. I´m not going to play a game without a ban on bribery.
I think it´s not real. I support Darius´position.
Sorry guys, but I don´t like it.

 

[kobayashi]

The point with the CSA campaign is not that I lost two units. It cost me three planets (or maybe even four) which I would have otherwise occupied (and maybe sold off all improvements in). It would have also given me a foothold to attack the Black sector.

The point with the Hoth capture - there was no reason to land so many ground units - you could have kept some of them in space. It was also a mistake to put your entire fleet there when they could have been left in space (even when they heal a bit slower).

The point with the Core worlds battle is not about distributing the ground forces among cities. You should have kept a fleet patrolling the space above the core worlds at all times, defending it at all times.

 

[Ohwell]

Koby is right; you need to develop different tactics in an island game.

On the other hand, it is a tad not-right to have entire planets, for a few 100s of gold to flip control.

Unfortunately, in the end, regardless of the desision it appears that this game is gone. At best we can find a player, but this doesn't seem likely given the circumstances.

 

[germanos]

Hi guys.

I won't take Darius' magnificent Empire.
I just don't have the time, now that my business is picking up and I allready have a hard time playing my turns in the games I currently play in.

It is a pity to see this great game go. I followed it remotely, and it seemed you all had a great time playing it.

Keep on civin',

Germanos.

 

[mordhiem]

I guess that leaves the door open for me then . Who's to play next?

 

[Ohwell]

You are, you Imperial scum you! Glad to see that someone wants to play.

 

[Darius]

The point with the Hoth capture - there was no reason to land so many ground units - you could have kept some of them in space. It was also a mistake to put your entire fleet there when they could have been left in space (even when they heal a bit slower).

There was a reason; they are even more vulnerable in space. You could send a carrier from beyond my recon reach, launch its planes, and wipe me out. I put the fleet in the city because it was safe from attack under the tough ground forces, and if they were to be bribed I would leave. I made this decision a whole turn ago.

 

[mordhiem]

I'll have the file up in a mo'. Just need to look around and gauge my position and such.

 

[mordhiem]

Sci rate set at 0 and sold all Uni's, completley unnesacary, we need cash not science! Talk about broke, Darius what did you do to lose so much cash!

On the military front didn't engage anyone, just shifted some units around. Where is the major front in this game? I presume it's in the Hoth/Alderaan area? I think I'll need a few turn to get to know the situation, but at least we're up and running again.

 

[Darius]

Are you nuts?!?!?!?! How are you going to get any better units? He'll get stealth battleships and wipe you out in a matter of turns! Besides, what do you need this cash for anyway? You've got nothing to buy since your production is so good.

 

[mordhiem]

I have my (somewhat crazy) reasons....

Besides, the amount of taxes I have to levy just to make a profit left it that research was so terrible I might as well cut it for now.

 

[Darius]

Yeah, but you sold off the universities and they have to be rebuilt when that "for now" ends.

And what do you need a profit for anyway? There's nothing to spend money on.

 

[Ohwell]

The Republic launches it's first real attempt at taking back the Correlian sector.

Our first task was to bolster our fleet by spending 1000 gold to take control of Talus. From this, we were granted with another r2 unit to spend more, and bribed Selonia. Many units were switched sides to us, and now we have some power back.

I don't think I really need to explain why I did this. I was pretty much dead until I had enough gold to bribe the cities. Also you could have spread out your units. Third, you could have seen my victory. Darius failed to learn this, and you will learn the hard way. Don't feel too bad though, I probably won't do this again. I just needed a jump start. Koby didn't need to bribe Hoth. I think we should have an "unwritten rule" that says you cannot bribe unless you are absolutely desperate (Like in my case).

 

[Darius]

Darius failed to learn this

Uh, I saw that victory next to Commenor a whole turn ago.

Also you could have spread out your units.

Unless he changed something significantly, they were spread out. About 25% of my Corellian defenses were in Selonia, and 40% in Talus, out of three cities. That's pretty damn spread out.

Koby didn't need to bribe Hoth.

I think he'll tell you that he did need to; that garrison would have wiped out 10+ Imperators, and he probably had less than 5.

I'll truly be surprised if Mordhiem wants to play like this. There are two more heavily defended cities gone, from one victory and an Imperator or two. What a f**kin joke.

 

[mordhiem]

Originally posted by Darius
Unless he changed something significantly, they were spread out. About 25% of my Corellian defenses were in Selonia, and 40% in Talus, out of three cities. That's pretty damn spread out.

I didn't change the position of any units near the front line, only moved some towards the front. As for 'playing like this', I'll give it a go and see what happens. Making no promises though...

 

[Ohwell]

FINE THEN!! If neither of you don't want to play then don't!! But you can try and develop STRATEGIES to combat city bribing!!

 

[Darius]

I did have a strategy, and it destroyed his first R2 attempt at Hoth, but he just sent another one. It's impossible to foil every attempt... if we've stolen techs from each other so many times, a the fear of a single, solitary victory arriving absolutely anywhere in your entire civ is obviously impossible to defend against. Especially when the person with the victory has Compact Ion Drive and cities less than ten squares away from yours.

And even if you did have such defenses, it would not be FUN. In fact it would be a complete grudge to play out every turn.

Not to mention, I don't remember experiencing your all-powerful anti-R2 "strategy" at Drall in the other game...

 

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Darius


Uh, I saw that victory next to Commenor a whole turn ago.

Unless he changed something significantly, they were spread out. About 25% of my Corellian defenses were in Selonia, and 40% in Talus, out of three cities. That's pretty damn spread out.

you still do not understand after all this time.

Spreading out your units refers to keeping them OUTSIDE cities. Focusing exclusively on intercepting R2 units is not a strategy. Positioning to recapture cities immediately and making it economically unviable for someone to do city bribing is a strategy. If someone had to spend 1000 credits to bribe a city with 3 troopers only to lose it the next turn, do you think he would do it? Keeping a healthy energy suplus is a strategy. Building fortresses at choke points is a strategy.

 

[Darius]

Gee, then what's the purpose of even having ground units in your cities? I might as well have one imperial troop in each city and have a fleet behind them; very realistic. Not to mention that the enemy would only have to destroy that fleet which would be in a predictable and vulnerable place.