Stargate SG1 mod

[Oni]

The way I would spell is Naquadreha, but that is just me. I have never seen it written and so am only going on phonetics. By the way, the idea is that the airport is like a Stargate anyway, the only problem being that it can't transport any units other than your own. Kind of a pity that your allies can't use your airports as well, but good intentioned I'm sure.

The airport would create more problems than even that. Transporting of Ships (large ships) should not be allowable to mention one. But what you said would be the biggest. But even if alies could use, it wouldn't work. You should still be able to use even your enemies (so long as they don't have some sort of Iris).

I think the way this can be solved with what I suggested above is treat ships as army type Units which are already fully loaded. Make their Loaded value Higher than the SG-Transporter hold value and no ships can be loaded.

Oh and I wanted to say that by using a Unit to represent the Transport ability of the star gate total movement can be limited.
The Star gate unit could be like a Ruler in Regicide (if this can be done). IN this way you can only have one... Or if it is possible to edit this through acheivment (or exploration) another Star Gate Unit can be achieved.

I think teh teleporting should be used if proper modifcations can be made. Although not everyone has Conquests the feature would be much better than using a railway style system IMO. Raliways lead to to many problems.. Bloackading.. Pilaging (if this is still in the game it could be usefull to pillage out planetary mines and whatnot).

Ok well I hope u like my ideas

 

[Symphony D.]

Naquadah (or Naquada) and Naquadria, according to SG-1's Sci-Fi.com website.

The transport idea sounds good but might also has flaws - eg: you could have whatever units were onboard disembark at any given point on a planet, which negates the strength of guarding a Stargate position (like SG Command), assuming planets are represented by multiple tiles.

What could be done, is take any given type of terrain (or make a landmark terrain?) and set the Movement Cost to 0. Theoretically, any unit should then be able to move along it at infinite speed, like a railroad, only it can't be pillaged. Of course, it can still be blocked...

As for the nature of the mod, I'd say have an overarching scenario, rather than a bunch of tiny ones based on SG-1 episodes - that's far too tactical for a game as strategic as Civ to really represent with any degree of accuracy.

 

[asgard fleet]

Naquadah (or Naquada) and Naquadria, according to SG-1's Sci-Fi.com website.

is right

 

[Healz]

Okay, I admit I spelt it wrong, but I was just going by phonetics or the way it sounded to be spelt. Anyway, anything is worth a try. Remember that Stargates did get blocked in some of the episodes of Stargate by another wormhole.

 

[Oni]

Naquadah (or Naquada) and Naquadria, according to SG-1's Sci-Fi.com website.

The transport idea sounds good but might also has flaws - eg: you could have whatever units were onboard disembark at any given point on a planet, which negates the strength of guarding a Stargate position (like SG Command), assuming planets are represented by multiple tiles.

What could be done, is take any given type of terrain (or make a landmark terrain?) and set the Movement Cost to 0. Theoretically, any unit should then be able to move along it at infinite speed, like a railroad, only it can't be pillaged. Of course, it can still be blocked...

As for the nature of the mod, I'd say have an overarching scenario, rather than a bunch of tiny ones based on SG-1 episodes - that's far too tactical for a game as strategic as Civ to really represent with any degree of accuracy.

I think I have a solution to what you are saying. But as I said I am uncertain of the teleporting mod capabilities and limitations.

AS I said there are 2 components to what I am suggesting. The location and the transporter. These would need more appropriate names so I think the Location should actually be the Star Gate. (Makes most sence) while the transporter could be a Star Gate team. With different civs they could be given slightly different names (only the Tal'ri really refer it is Star Gate.. But others begin to from them) Anyways, the SG teams could be given specifics rather than making units like O'neil and such he should be the SG team.. ANd then through research or what not allow more teams.

OK so to solve the problem you are talking about the actual Star Gate location can be set as the only terrain accessble by Star Gate Teams. Make the SG team like a catapalt or something... And then no roads (since the planets are small roads should not be aloud anyways).

In addition I came up with an idea for the Iris with such an implimentation. BUt I am thinking it might not work. (again no modding exp so bear with me). If we set the Iris as being OPPOSITE of a ROAD, and make one unit that can build roads and pillage this would be very effective. Also it may have to be possible to only allow building (and pillaging)on one terrain type (can this be done.. If so it simplifies the above process also).

So the Iris is the opposite of a Road then no road is open Iris. This Road building Unit can have one turn (or 2 per turn if possible) capabilities of building and pillaging.. Thus Opening and closing of the Iris. It should also have enough movement to get on and off of the Star gate, but not apsolutely necessary I guess.
So if this is done all squares would be set to not allow the holding of the SG teams. UNLESS the road is built.. thus iris is closed. Upon game creation all Star Gate squares receive a road (open Iris cause they don't have one yet). Then allow the Tol'ri and particular Goa'uld with force fieldss around their Star Gates to build the 'Iris Controler' or 'Force Field Controler' to go and open and close their star gate.

Oh and the Iris Controller should also be a 'big' unit so it can't be transported through the gate to go and close a bunch of other locations.

Oh I just thought of one other way of setting it so the SG team can't pick up from any where on the planet.. Give them no movement points. Would this work? Only Transporting aloud....

Then

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I think I have a solution to what you are saying. But as I said I am uncertain of the teleporting mod capabilities and limitations.

AS I said there are 2 components to what I am suggesting. The location and the transporter. These would need more appropriate names so I think the Location should actually be the Star Gate. (Makes most sence) while the transporter could be a Star Gate team. With different civs they could be given slightly different names (only the Tal'ri really refer it is Star Gate.. But others begin to from them) Anyways, the SG teams could be given specifics rather than making units like O'neil and such he should be the SG team.. ANd then through research or what not allow more teams.

First of all with transport, only a building or a unit can be the telepad and only a unit can have transport ability. If a unit is the telepad, then they will lose a health point for each teleport to their location. This will not work as each civ would need to place a "stargate unit" at each planet.

OK so to solve the problem you are talking about the actual Star Gate location can be set as the only terrain accessble by Star Gate Teams. Make the SG team like a catapalt or something... And then no roads (since the planets are small roads should not be aloud anyways).

In addition I came up with an idea for the Iris with such an implimentation. BUt I am thinking it might not work. (again no modding exp so bear with me). If we set the Iris as being OPPOSITE of a ROAD, and make one unit that can build roads and pillage this would be very effective. Also it may have to be possible to only allow building (and pillaging)on one terrain type (can this be done.. If so it simplifies the above process also).

So the Iris is the opposite of a Road then no road is open Iris. This Road building Unit can have one turn (or 2 per turn if possible) capabilities of building and pillaging.. Thus Opening and closing of the Iris. It should also have enough movement to get on and off of the Star gate, but not apsolutely necessary I guess.
So if this is done all squares would be set to not allow the holding of the SG teams. UNLESS the road is built.. thus iris is closed. Upon game creation all Star Gate squares receive a road (open Iris cause they don't have one yet). Then allow the Tol'ri and particular Goa'uld with force fieldss around their Star Gates to build the 'Iris Controler' or 'Force Field Controler' to go and open and close their star gate.

You would have to extend the "road" onto at least one tile on the "wormhole" side and one past the DHD side. Otherwise, a unit which can not traverse a certain terrain will not unless there is a road going from passable terrain to impassable terrain. If the road is soley on impassable terrain, the unit will not be able to pass onto that road. Also the AI may not understand the use of such a unit.

Oh and the Iris Controller should also be a 'big' unit so it can't be transported through the gate to go and close a bunch of other locations.

Oh I just thought of one other way of setting it so the SG team can't pick up from any where on the planet.. Give them no movement points. Would this work? Only Transporting aloud....

At least one movement point is needed so that the unit would be activated for teleport.

We've gone through the pro's and con's
teleport and airport are both limited to only what that civ controls. There would be no going to another planet via stargate.
The rail line though a hinderance in "space travel" is the most effective in representing the ability to travel to any planet with an active gate.

The best solution would be to use the railroad (you can have a railroad graphic that doesn't look like a railroad) for the wormhole. Ditch the idea of ocean as space (use space tile, but not sea units) Instead use air units. Air units do not have to be immobile and can then act like regular land and sea units. Therefore all earth, asgard, go'auld, tokra etc.. ships will be air units. While the sg teams and other land based groups venture through the wormholes from planet to planet.
For the Iris an imobile unit with very high defense could be placed ontop of the stargate resource (where the wormhole enters the planet).

 

[Oni]

First of all with transport, only a building or a unit can be the telepad and only a unit can have transport ability. If a unit is the telepad, then they will lose a health point for each teleport to their location. This will not work as each civ would need to place a "stargate unit" at each planet.

So use a building a a Telepad... that would make most sence. Maybe you didn't follow what I meant exactly. The ONLY unit with the teleport ability is the Star Gate Team.... And it is a transport. And yes.. Each Civ gets one.. And has the potential to acquire more. This should be a non-buildable unit. Each Star Gate civ starts with one and maybe can find others on non Civilized planets (Representative as an offplanet base). Can be found in a hut. But highly unlikely. Usually should be a settler type unit I think. Like finding natives or something.

You would have to extend the "road" onto at least one tile on the "wormhole" side and one past the DHD side. Otherwise, a unit which can not traverse a certain terrain will not unless there is a road going from passable terrain to impassable terrain. If the road is soley on impassable terrain, the unit will not be able to pass onto that road. Also the AI may not understand the use of such a unit.

That is entirley the point of limiting actually. The way I see it other terrain limiting units need not be built. area is representive of a planet. And with the tech of now (but more importatnly in the showSG-1) there is no terrain that limits units to that extremety. Each tile represents about 1/10 of the planet. To limit it to that extent would be odd. The only limits that need to be done of that sort are Water squares.


Does this make sence?

 

[Tzar Sasha]

So use a building a a Telepad... that would make most sence. Maybe you didn't follow what I meant exactly. The ONLY unit with the teleport ability is the Star Gate Team.... And it is a transport. And yes.. Each Civ gets one.. And has the potential to acquire more. This should be a non-buildable unit. Each Star Gate civ starts with one and maybe can find others on non Civilized planets (Representative as an offplanet base). Can be found in a hut. But highly unlikely. Usually should be a settler type unit I think. Like finding natives or something.

Buildings cannot be found in "goodie" huts only tech or gold. If you have a building as the stargate, then each civ must build their own stargates at each planet. How then do they get there, if there is no gate on the other planet? Who needs water based units when air units (not immobile) will function just as well.

That is entirley the point of limiting actually. The way I see it other terrain limiting units need not be built. area is representive of a planet. And with the tech of now (but more importatnly in the showSG-1) there is no terrain that limits units to that extremety. Each tile represents about 1/10 of the planet. To limit it to that extent would be odd. The only limits that need to be done of that sort are Water squares.


Does this make sence?

No, but okay....

Why don't we scrap the teleport idea and the railroad as wormhole idea. Strategically place sea tiles in an all ocean tile set, so that sea only units can traverse the "wormholes" Slap a city on the coast of the "planet" Name your ship The Stargate. Load a multi-unit of four. And send it on it's merry way. If sea tiles can't be reduced to 0 movement required then boost the movement of the Stargate ship....

Sea tiles will not block ocean tiles as land tiles do. However, this discussion maybe moot as I think the designer of the mod has already decided how he/she is going to do it. I did custom make a terrain set for his/her use.

 

[Trajan13]

I've a small idea -
What if, for the scientific victory, the races would be working for ASCENSION. I got the idea from watching the newest SG-Atlantis episode, where they said the Ancients had to research ascension. It seems that the first race to reach ascension would be victor, I mean, they'd be GODS ! We aren't told much about the research process, but at least one of the modules could be catching that energy-beast thingy. Your thoughts?

 

[Oni]

Buildings cannot be found in "goodie" huts only tech or gold. If you have a building as the stargate, then each civ must build their own stargates at each planet. How then do they get there, if there is no gate on the other planet? Who needs water based units when air units (not immobile) will function just as well.

You are confusing the building with the Unit. Every planet has the building. Unless there will NEVER be a Star Gate there. BUT some goodie huts give a Star Gate Team. With out the team you can't travel through the gate. So the team just gives the Race that found it another Unit to travel around with.


Even if the maker is using a different method that doesn't mean the mod can't be finished and then changed again.... Or even adjusted while he is finishing.

 

[DS_CL]

I've been out of the loop for a while, but some things I found:

In response to what Tsar Sasha said above, I've actually been playing around with starships functioning as aircraft. So far, I haven't found a successful way of making the AI understand how to use mobile aircraft. Out of curiosity, did you find a way to get the AI to understand this?

Also, if you still want to make one master map of the entire stargate universe (or smaller maps involving more than one planet), a solution I came up with for the use of railroads/transporting between planets is to make all railroad grids seperated by one tile of road (to reduce the amont of gates you can visit per turn).

I think stargate destruction should be a game limiting factor. It shouldn't be easy, but if your opponent (assuming your mission is to rescue someone and bring them home like the first episode) destroys/buries/steals the stargate before you finish because you loafed too long, I think its an element that should be added (maybe an element of difficulty as you play through the missions).

 

[Tzar Sasha]

I've been out of the loop for a while, but some things I found:

In response to what Tsar Sasha said above, I've actually been playing around with starships functioning as aircraft. So far, I haven't found a successful way of making the AI understand how to use mobile aircraft. Out of curiosity, did you find a way to get the AI to understand this?

That's the problem to making any major changes to the game. The AI doesn't understand. The AI probably will never use the stargate system if it is soley used as teleport.

We need to come up with solution that accurately represents the stargate system and allows for AI playability.

if I understand correctly you want to have a building say a Stargate Control Center that is buildable in every city. All right, this building is your telepad. Ok, I'm folllowing so far. Then you have a unit possibly a 4 character munit, which can teleport to the SCC. Okay, so this unit can only go from SCC to SCC (besides standard tile movement) much like the re-base mission for airplanes.
Here is my question, this model does not accurately represent the stargate system. How will the stargate team travel to uncontrolled worlds? If not by a wormhole rail line, then they must go by ship. That may work fine for certain episodes but not all.

If you are going to allow the SCC to be built in all cities, so that the SG team can visit. Then I think that there needs to be a stargate resource. An actually resource icon that looks like a stargate. The building cannot be built unless this resource is located within the cities radius. However, all offworld planets should have a DHD resource that is required as well. But that causes a problem with Earth as SGC does not have a DHD but the Russians did. In which case I would suggest for earth that their palace or Stargate Command also be a telepad. The SGC will only have a requirement for the stargate resource, which means that the capital can be moved to an alpha site if necessary.

If the teleport is the only option used,
1) The AI may not use it.
2) The units cannot get to other planets unless by starship
3) If the units cannot get to other planets, no new cities can be founded.

If you add the unsightly rail line you get,
1) Ability to travel to any controlled or uncontrolled planet
2) Ability to settle new planets and set up new centers of gate operation
3) Ability to find and make allies/enemies.

There is another option which would need to be played around with, but it could also work.
1) remove the sea, coast, ocean
2) pick one terrain to be space say mountains
3) pick one terrain to be the wormhole route say volcano (if one explodes the team was lost in some sort of wormhole accident)
4) pick a handful of terrain for all planets. dessert plain grassland tundra hills with forests jungles and marshes.
5) adjust all units to be land
6) adjust ship units to treat all terrain as road
7) adjust all non-stargateable units as wheeled
8) make all stargateable units foot so they may traverse the volcano line.
9) air units for planet defense can still be built (like x302)
10) The teleport/telepad features can and should still be active in this option.

I can make another test map/terrain set whatever, if you'd like to see it or try it out.

EDIT: I will only make changes to the current or re-create a new terrain set at the request of this mod's leader killer_j27. That said, I will not discuss the topic of wormhole physics for the Stargate mod any further. For those newer to this thread than I, please see the post below this one and follow its advice in reading the entire thread. Many questions will be answered...

Speaking of the terrain set... Killer, are there any graphical glitches that I should attempt to address? If possible I don't want you to be limited on terrain placement.... Let me know, if I need to make some minor adjustments... It's been awhile since I made the terrain and was hoping you'd had a chance to work with it some....

END EDIT

 

[subbss]

All you new people in this thread should read the whole thread before suggesting killer_J27 redo the whole mod. All of the pros and cons have already been discussed before and the rail line meathod was proven to be the best.

We are wasting time arguing about this when we could be figuring out other stuff for the mod. How about we think of military and scientific great leaders for some of the civs killer_J27 has said are going to be in the mod.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Scientific leader for the Tokra
That blond one can't remember the name who brought those arm bands for SG-1 to try out.
Military leader for the Tokra
Selmac obviously. Martoof (sp?) would be good for an early military leader.

IF the Go'uld are one civ then Nerte (sp?) would be good for the scientific and any of the others for military.
IF they are seperate then I've got no clue....

Asgaard
Thor for the Military
Not sure about the scientific

The Nox would have no military leaders only scientific, but I don't know any of their names right now

That's pretty much all I can think of right now.... If I get any more hairbrained ideas I'll give ya another post....

 

[StealthBomber]

What about Loki for a scientific leader for the Asgard race. Even though I think he was doing unsactioned experiments.

 

[StealthBomber]

I think I found something that could go wrong with the map if your using that land space map. You guys probably know this and found a way to correct it. If a person build a city to close to the rails and thier border expands then when you move it takes a MP. I don't know maybe you have this figured out.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

What do you mean by MP? I'm not familiar with that term... Nothing was changed as far as citiy placement rules (unless the test map had tundra removed from the available city build sites) so I don't know for sure what the problem is. Can you be more specific? Did you make additions/changes to the test map? If so I'll need a copy with your changes in order to see what is causing the problem.
I did not test much playability only functionality for the AI because killer_j27 is going to set the map up how he wants it. I only provided the graphics changes....

 

[StealthBomber]

I don't know the term you guys use for and if the way killer has it set up will keep it from happening. Alright ill try to explain what I mean. I guess the railroad is going to be the stargate's worm hole right. So when you build a city and your culture expands to the point where a peice of the railroad or wormhole is in your borders an opponent can't use that piece to move in 0 turns. It takes the unit movement point to go across. Like a tank can move twice in a turn, but going across it would stop it for a turn. Sorry if you don't understand what im saying im trying to explain.

 

[Tzar Sasha]

Ah, I see what you mean. That was not considered when I made the terrain set. However, should Killer_j27 read these couple of posts I'm sure that he'll make a couple of adjustments to the rules to help reduce the occurances of the problem. Of course as culture expands it will continue to become a problem.

You could look at it this way...
The unit travels to the new gate and is stopped by the loss of movement points prior to reaching the stargate resource/symbol. This forced stop could represent the slight warning that is received when someone is coming through the stargate. i.e. the locking chevrons and sideways flush.

 

[Oni]

All you new people in this thread should read the whole thread before suggesting killer_J27 redo the whole mod. All of the pros and cons have already been discussed before and the rail line meathod was proven to be the best.

We are wasting time arguing about this when we could be figuring out other stuff for the mod. How about we think of military and scientific great leaders for some of the civs killer_J27 has said are going to be in the mod.

Just FYI I read the whole thread before I posted anything.


As I said I had never used the telepad operation so I knew little about it. Until now there was nothing talking about AI not using it. Obviously if they don't use the system then another approach must be taken. I won't bother addressing the other points you made on the system being flawed cause they are irrelivent if AI doesn't use it... And as I said I am not clear on the limitations of the teleporting and that is probably the misunderstanding (I think it works in a different way.. e.g. can be used on a transport so you could load it and then teleport NON teleporting units)

Anyways, if railways are going to be used is there a way to limit there presence upon the rail. Like taking damage as a heli does or something.

Its just the way I see it the AI will likely blockade planets by camping out on the railways.

Oh and I have a question.. So if you have a unit that is not suppose to go through the gate, you have made it wheeled. But the gate is a railway so what is stopping it?

And if the units which can use the gate are normal what is stopping them from wondering into space?

I am a bit confused by what you are saying. I thought the idea was to make space squares as ocean...