Starting location is really important!

[Nikox]

Eddie,

I was editing my first reply to you first post while you wrote the next one.
Can you read it again pls...

 

[rhialto]

I think it would be better to make these terrain adaptions into civ traits rather than techs. After all that is essentially what the seafaring trait is now - a terrain adaption.

 

[eddie_verdde]

And usually who learned to play with a particular civ (eg: Egyptians) will not love to be an Inca just becouse he started on a mountain...

well but if you choose the egyptians to play with and your starting location is surrounded by mountains, what would be the advantage of having knowledge on desert, I mean,if egyptians start with predetermined characteristics that give them advantage in the desert, that would bring advantages only if they started near desert...but we know that the starting locations are randomly allocated and therefore russians can begin near jungle, chinese can begin in a small island and egyptians can start near mountains...

so,each civ shoulddevelop specific characteristics throughout the years as a result of the specific conditions under which its evolution occured...

 

[eddie_verdde]

I think it would be better to make these terrain adaptions into civ traits rather than techs. After all that is essentially what the seafaring trait is now - a terrain adaption.

well to be honest I see no difference between the concept of "technology" and the concept of "specific trait"...

In my opinion a trait is (or should be) nothing more than an specific combination of techs that a civ developed as a consequence of its history and its adaptation to its environment...so, such a combination of techs will give some advantages to the civ that developed them along its history, instead of just starting the game with that combination of techs...

About SEAFARING...a civ can start the game with this special trait and it would be reasonable if the civ started in a coastal area...however that's not enough...you can start near the coast but if you find good resources to the mainland you will expand towards inland and you won't take any advantage of your SEAFARING trait...

So, again, a civ should only develop seafaring as a trait (not only a technology) if it has been built along the coast and if you put a great investment on exploring the sea as it might happen if, for instance, the inland was occupied by other civs or if it was poor in resources...

 

[Nikox]

...but we know that the starting locations are randomly allocated and therefore russians can begin near jungle, chinese can begin in a small island and egyptians can start near mountains...

This is what I want to suggest to change with my thread, one way to give special specific characteristics at the randomly allocated starting locations.

Is it so an awfull idea??

Anyway mine is just a suggestion at how it can be solved, more suggestions are wellcome!!

 

[GoodGame]

Well you're honest.

For a random or MP game, it'd be okay, but it kills a lot of strategy if you get a perfect starting spot. I'd tone it down to an either/or choice.

Like:

50 Gold, or start next to a river with normal plains (lots of easy shields, just irrigate), or 2 guaranteed bonus resources, or or 3 hills. No Luxuries or Strategic Resources guaranteed.

Nikox's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Faenza, Italy
Posts: 89

Starting location is really important!
Starting location is really important and who can say that he never re-started several times the game trying to get the best starting point?
In my idea this can be solved giving an amount of point to spend on it.
Eg:
everybody has 50 points and he can spend in choosing between

- 40 point to start on a river
- 20 points to have one hill
- 30 points to have two or more hills
- 10 point to have a mountain
- 30 points for a resource in the first tiles around the city
- 20 points to have a resource in the next tiles
- 30 points to have a luxury

...and so on. And maybe this can be just the % chance to get it randomly

 

[Bluetooth]

Use the editor and you can get the starting position you want. It only takes a couple of minutes and you don’t have to restart the game.

 

[Nikox]

Well you're honest.

For a random or MP game, it'd be okay, but it kills a lot of strategy if you get a perfect starting spot. I'd tone it down to an either/or choice.

Like:

50 Gold, or start next to a river with normal plains (lots of easy shields, just irrigate), or 2 guaranteed bonus resources, or or 3 hills. No Luxuries or Strategic Resources guaranteed.

This is a good idea...

 

[Nikox]

Use the editor and you can get the starting position you want. It only takes a couple of minutes and you don’t have to restart the game.

This is what is happening right now, waiting someonelse to do the job.
Otherway, what about fog of war??

And if you wanna play a new mod the waiting time can be quite a long one...

 

[sengfossil]

For SP it's (IMHO) not that important. But if it turns out that you don't have a chance to get iron you can start over. So a fair location of the basic ressources seems to me more important.

 

[rhialto]

Personally, I consider unbalanced starts and not starting in an area that makes use of your civ's traits to be part of the fun.

 

[Nikox]

Personally, I consider unbalanced starts and not starting in an area that makes use of your civ's traits to be part of the fun.

It's what happen in MP or PBEM games and you need someonelse to do the job..

If you consider SP games. Never found a starting point that gave you no chance to win the game??

If you consider this idea unbalanced, what is your suggestion to solve it?

 

[civzombie]

How about you get an extra settler or two if your start is crap.

Crap being determined by some program considered the quality of squares in a certain radius around your starting position.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Really, starting location is part of the challenge. It's one of those things that make a particular difficulty level somewhat varied. I'm more worried about AI civs getting crummy starting locations, and thus the game not being very fun. So I do think it would be good for the new game code to be able to do a better job of balancing starting locations.

Once that is in place, I can also see a, "Can I have it, pretty please?" feature. Maybe you get to pick one thing (river nearby, near coast, etc.) that is really important to how you'd like to play the game. The new game code isn't committed to giving you that, but it will see what it can do. The AI's would need to randomly ask for something, and if 3 civs want rivers but only 2 are available, someone gets left out. Could be you. And if you ask for a river and get one in tundra--well, stuff happens.

 

[brinko]

i like to see the starting location kepted as a surprise like presents, kids, vlt's and kinder eggs. i know in kinder eggs, u can get a crappy toy, but at least in civ 4, it would cost u anything to try again.