Starting Strategies - Expansion phase!

Steaton

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
24
My starting strategy build order:

Worker first? - Well your city can produce as much at size one with worker improvements as it can at size 2-3 without and you also get a worker out of it (works best if you have something worth improving nearby, gold, food). This concept is actually true throughout the game.

General expansion phase strategies:
Build settlers, workers, warriors and more settlers. Buildings and city size is in my opinion less important at the start it's best to spread first then build up (though you must be sufficently protected from barbs and early attacks by building plenty of warriors too).

Disadvantages of this approach:
- Can start a little slower (in tech and city maturity) and so are vunerable early on but once those cities build up you accelerate ahead of your rivals.

Advantages:
- Grab more map and resrict your opponents. (Note: Important game concept to build in direction of your opponents first then fill in behind).
- More likely to get key resources.
- More cities generating income, production and food. Maximises income from the land.

This really works well try it!
 
Also please post your thoughts on key things in your strategy that you think really work!
 
This was a good strategy in Civ III, but I think that in Civ IV, it's more important to build up fewer cities well rather than just get a lot of cities.

I've started a couple of games and in one I started with a warrior and the other, I started with a scout, so I think that depends on which civ you choose. The first thing I do is build the one of those that I don't have and have the warrior fortify and the scout explore. Then I build a worker to help expand my capital city. Next I build an obelisk - this only gives one culture, but getting it early and having that point go throughout the entire game can be significant.

After that, I build my first settler and then a barracks, one or two military units and then the second settler. Then I focus on some buildings, etc to build up the city. It's also important to put the obelisk in any subsequent cities, since that will expand their borders ten turns later and give you more access to resources around them. Each city should have its own worker, too.
 
A counterpoint - what really and truly matters in the early game is territory, since you can restrict access to whole swaths of the map with well-placed culture centers (assuming you keep your borders closed). So, a viable early build is to scout heavily (expansionist trait helps for this, early scouts), place cities at key points on the map, build them up to be defensible, then fill in between and behind them. Be aware that having more than 7 or 8 cities before you get courthouses will be a pretty severe drain on your economy, so make the most of what you have to start.
 
At the Monarch difficulty level, I've found that the best approach is to develop a good core 5-6 cities first. Keep them in fairly close proximity to each other so that they are easy to defend. Build up some key early infrastructure (like work boat, workers, barracks, an obelisk, and maybe a forge or temple, or a wonder if you can power through it with stone/marble/industrious trait).

By the time you get access to swordsman, you should have very little to build in your cities in terms of infrastructure at this point. This is the perfect time to invest in a force of swordsmen/spearmen/axemen. Get a stack of about 8-10 of these (go heavy on the swordsmen and work towards getting the medic promotion asap since it is incredibly useful for attrition warfare.

Once you have your stack, send it after the nearest AI and let em have it. You should be able to sack the first city or two fairly easily, which will open up additional territory (I usually keep the cities so that I don't have to waste time building new settlers, unless the enemy city is in a really crappy spot). Conquering subsequent cities will be more difficult, depending on the size of the AI's empire and the difficulty level (the bigger the empire and the higher the difficulty => the more unit that the AI will be producing and throwing at you). The goal is not necessarily to wipe out your neighbor, but just to cripple him and expand your borders at his expense.

The big advantage that this strategy has over a fast settler/expand strategy is that you won't be strangling yourself with maintenance costs, which start to become very brutal at the higher difficulty levels. Accordingly, you won't lag behind in tech advances. The other big advantage is that you will have a fairly large army early in the game relative to the rest of your opponents. Therefore, the AI will be more hesitant to attack you. Also, you will find that if you manage your initial force properly, you'll be able to get them levelled up fairly quickly early in the game. Later in the game, you'll find these ancient units very useful when you upgrade them to their modern counterparts and they already have 10-15 xp.

The one downside to this strategy is that you may find that you'll have to pass up a wonder or two that you'd otherwise build. I've been playing as Roosevelt (industrious/organized), so I've generally been able to crank out wonders out of one of my cities anyway thanks to my industrious trait. It all will depends upon how many units the AI throws at you and how many you'll need to in response to defend your borders and take the fight to his cities. Fortunately, it still is fairly easy to outmaneuver the AI in war, you can generally make do with a significantly smaller, more balanced force. Just make sure that your initial force is well balanced with swordsman (for hitting cities), axeman (for killing melee units), and spearmen (for killing cavalry).
A good ratio would be something like 6 swordsmen: 2 axemen: 2 spearmen. Throw some catapults into the mix as soon as you can so that you can bombard city defenses prior to attacking.

-xDaunt
 
xdaunt,

When you take your stack on the aggressive, do you find that the AI generally focuses its forces on stopping them/saving the city, or will they still send units down to pillage infrastructure? It sounds like a quality strat if they do the former; but it would hurt if you kept a pretty meager force behind and saw 5 improvements get pillaged.
 
ritterpa said:
xdaunt,

When you take your stack on the aggressive, do you find that the AI generally focuses its forces on stopping them/saving the city, or will they still send units down to pillage infrastructure? It sounds like a quality strat if they do the former; but it would hurt if you kept a pretty meager force behind and saw 5 improvements get pillaged.

The AI does both. In my current game, I quickly sacked a small enemy city and then moved onto a hill adjaced to one of the enemy's larger cities. Unfortunately, the city was also built on a hill so I couldn't really attack it until I got catapults. In the meantime, I just left the stack on the hill for about 15 turns or so until the catapults arrived. During that time, the enemy would both attack my stack and send horsearchers into my territory. Fortunately, they only sent horse archers, so I simply built a few (a few being 2-3) spearmen and spread them around my border in position to intercept.

In general, it seems like the AI places a much greater value on its own cities than in Civ 3 where it would regularly ignore your own attacks into its territory and simply go after your cities single-mindedly. So basically the safe bet is to have a small screening force in reserve to guard your territory. If the AI sends continuously sends one type of unit at you (like horsearchers in my case), then just build a few specialized counter units and you'll be good to go.

-xDaunt
 
I build warriors and scouts before my first settler and worker, as especially scouts have a chance of finding both of the above, and it is extremely important to know where to build for maximum effect.

If you first build a worker or settler, who's doing your exploring? Your one warrior or scout, at most.

This leaves you placing your first and second settlers in what may not the ideal growth 2nd city, and even hampers you further on as you may not reach that extremely useful resource location so nearby.

So, I prefer scouts for exploration, or warriors so that my other ones can explore. Once my cities reach size 4 I have been building the first settler, followed by the first worker.

All strategies can work, though, it really just depends on your overall play style and goals.
 
I love to play with the aztecs, because of the starting techs: hunting & mysticism

with mysticism, i go for buddhism (or hindu or judaism)

hunting gives you scouts from 4000 BC

with a bit luck, i find 5 goodie huts in the first 20 turns
of 5 huts, you are almost sure of at least one settlers, and a decent stock of gold for the beginning of the game.
 
At the Monarch difficulty level, I've found that the best approach is to develop a good core 5-6 cities first. Keep them in fairly close proximity to each other so that they are easy to defend. Build up some key early infrastructure (like work boat, workers, barracks, an obelisk, and maybe a forge or temple, or a wonder if you can power through it with stone/marble/industrious trait).

I definitally agree that 5-6 cities is a great way to start off at Monarch Level. I even suggest this as a priority at the risk of sacrificing infrastructure. {NOT Military Presence however} Especially since with your lower production level, the AI will almost always beat you to the punch at expanding if you try to build up a bunch of workers and temples.

By the time you get access to swordsman, you should have very little to build in your cities in terms of infrastructure at this point. This is the perfect time to invest in a force of swordsmen/spearmen/axemen. Get a stack of about 8-10 of these (go heavy on the swordsmen and work towards getting the medic promotion asap since it is incredibly useful for attrition warfare.

This would be better advice for Deity level; and I wouldn't even suggest just swordsmen/axement/spearmen. I'd suggest getting an early UU civiliation like the Mongols or Roman's, and focus on the UU/Swordsmen/Spearmen.

For Monarch level, you'd be alot happier with building up a great defense, and focus on expanding all the way through until the early renessaince era when you get Macemen, Knights and Catapults. A small stack of 4 catapults with City Raider 1 + 2 followed up with a bunch of Macemen, and Knights is a deadly sortie. You'll pound through most cities very quickly even if you lose one or two catapults in the process. Doesn't work well on Deity I've noticed; mostly because the AI usually researches Gunpowder around the time I reach this point. =(

Personally, if I was going to use Medic, I'd purposely make a few very cheap low rating units like Warriors and slap Medic on them. Same purpose; more effect. The only cost to you is your pocketbook; which means little, since you'll save so much on production. Production > Research > Money, prior to Universal Sufferage.

Once you have your stack, send it after the nearest AI and let em have it. You should be able to sack the first city or two fairly easily, which will open up additional territory (I usually keep the cities so that I don't have to waste time building new settlers, unless the enemy city is in a really crappy spot). Conquering subsequent cities will be more difficult, depending on the size of the AI's empire and the difficulty level (the bigger the empire and the higher the difficulty => the more unit that the AI will be producing and throwing at you). The goal is not necessarily to wipe out your neighbor, but just to cripple him and expand your borders at his expense.

Agreed here. At this point you'd actually make more enemies trying to finish off somebody; as you'll be forced to make peace; then redeclare war. If you don't; you'll simply suffer from War Weariness. War's on Monarchy drag on WAY too long. Hell, even on Prince I remember the war's took forever when I wanted to destroy someone. It's better to make a bloc alliance, and cripple the people not in your bloc.

The big advantage that this strategy has over a fast settler/expand strategy is that you won't be strangling yourself with maintenance costs, which start to become very brutal at the higher difficulty levels. Accordingly, you won't lag behind in tech advances. The other big advantage is that you will have a fairly large army early in the game relative to the rest of your opponents. Therefore, the AI will be more hesitant to attack you. Also, you will find that if you manage your initial force properly, you'll be able to get them levelled up fairly quickly early in the game. Later in the game, you'll find these ancient units very useful when you upgrade them to their modern counterparts and they already have 10-15 xp.

Funny enough, Maintenance costs are nothing if you take the Expansive trait for your leaders. Mostly because the extra health means more people to your cities. With larger cities you earn more gold as a result. So Maintenance is not the problem, especially as other civilization's constantly beat you to the completion of some of the more important early wonders. The "real" problem is happiness, which tends to pile up as your cities get too big.

The one downside to this strategy is that you may find that you'll have to pass up a wonder or two that you'd otherwise build. I've been playing as Roosevelt (industrious/organized), so I've generally been able to crank out wonders out of one of my cities anyway thanks to my industrious trait. It all will depends upon how many units the AI throws at you and how many you'll need to in response to defend your borders and take the fight to his cities. Fortunately, it still is fairly easy to outmaneuver the AI in war, you can generally make do with a significantly smaller, more balanced force. Just make sure that your initial force is well balanced with swordsman (for hitting cities), axeman (for killing melee units), and spearmen (for killing cavalry).
A good ratio would be something like 6 swordsmen: 2 axemen: 2 spearmen. Throw some catapults into the mix as soon as you can so that you can bombard city defenses prior to attacking.

Personally Axemen are kind of iffy to me. Especially as the majority of the enemy's defense force is comprised of Longbowmen or Spearmen more often then not. On Monarchy level, I rarely see the AI comprise defense teams consisting of Axemen or Swordsmen. Spearmen would be a problem yes, but Swordsmen more than remove them as a threat, especially if you threw on a couple of city raider promotions. I'd suggest a ratio of 6 swordsmen: 1 axeman: 2 spearmen: 4 Horse Archer: 3 Medic-Promotion Scout/Warrior.
 
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