State Propety or Enviromentalism

[j_mie6]

I don't know either domination or diplomacy... I was also fed up with apostolic palace so built UN to stop the madness

 

[r_rolo1]

Unless YOU have built the AP or have the AP in your land ( then I don't see the reason to wanting to buckle it ), getting to Mass Media will not do anything by it self . It is perfectly possible to have the AP and the UN active at the same time.

 

[Loz]

Enviromentalism has its uses. It's particuarly nice with a small empire as you won't have access to many health resources but you will want large cities.

Also in maps with a large amount of hills such as global highlands enviromentalism can be very nice - enviro windmills are a very good improvement.

 

[plasmacannon]

Enviromentalism has its uses. It's particuarly nice with a small empire as you won't have access to many health resources but you will want large cities.

Also in maps with a large amount of hills such as global highlands enviromentalism can be very nice - enviro windmills are a very good improvement.

I think what, he and others are saying, is that in his current game, SP is preferred more that Enviro.

I was curious about your remark, "Universal Suffrage = NO!!! Don't take my monarchy!"
Do you still need that many units in your cities for the happiness?
You don't have enough happy resourses, or haven't traded to get them?
I didn't see your leader+empire to know, if, you are CHA or have a UB granting happiness.

Wouldn't Rep or US be better?
Rep gives happy in the 5 largest cities, but, much more research.
US gives you prod from towns, which, you should have many by the time of nukes.
Plus the option to buy things, if necessary, with gold.

 

[Ataxerxes]

I think what, he and others are saying, is that in his current game, SP is preferred more that Enviro.

I was curious about your remark, "Universal Suffrage = NO!!! Don't take my monarchy!"
Do you still need that many units in your cities for the happiness?
You don't have enough happy resourses, or haven't traded to get them?
I didn't see your leader+empire to know, if, you are CHA or have a UB granting happiness.

Wouldn't Rep or US be better?
Rep gives happy in the 5 largest cities, but, much more research.
US gives you prod from towns, which, you should have many by the time of nukes.
Plus the option to buy things, if necessary, with gold.

This confused me too. Monarchy is nice when it comes in but in the late game I'd either take US or Representation.

Environmentalism is kind of a niche civic (it's great in OCC). It's useful in certain cases but usually SP or Free Market is better. I'm so lazy I usually go SP but SP vs. Free Market is where the question usually is.

I think I'm unusual. I dislike the UN more than the AP. I always try to abuse the AP if I can get it or the AP religion so getting Mass Media hurts. I lose production for starters and also some diplo manipulation. The one time I'll try for Mass Media is if somebody in a religion I don't have has the AP. Then it's time to be uncharacteristically generous and trade it to whoever built the AP. I only like dogpiles if I'm a piler, I hate being the pilee. For me the UN is used for Diplomation. Aside from that it's a painful reality somebody else builds.

 

[j_mie6]

monarchy is my favorite because it encourages me to build more defence in cities and is low upkeep I have never used rep... I guess the town thing is pretty good as I have a few around my other cities (but my IW city is just spammed with minimal farms, workshops and mines (one reason why no SP is a bad idea...)

I am elizabeth of england

 

[Ataxerxes]

monarchy is my favorite because it encourages me to build more defence in cities and is low upkeep I have never used rep... I guess the town thing is pretty good as I have a few around my other cities (but my IW city is just spammed with minimal farms, workshops and mines (one reason why no SP is a bad idea...)

I am elizabeth of england

I prefer more offense outside cities. I usually try to hit enemies with siege initiative rather than wait. At some point you're going to run into upkeep problems with all those units, especially if you try to use Pacifism. Rep gives happiness where you need it most and better research. By the time I can use Rep without Pyramids I can usually trade or non-peacefully acquire happiness resources to keep me going.

I don't think SP improves mines IIRC. However, it makes workshops and watermills very good improvements. You can get new cities productive very fast. Also, with SP river cities become awesome production cities. I do like SP and use it often although I understand corps can be better in some situations.

 

[j_mie6]

I was just saying there is mines

It's not that I wait for invasion but with troops INSIDE cities it makes it fast to airlift them to the front (I often march the army on and airlift defence to new cities)

I like US more than rep, though for me police state is some times the answer

Maybee when I get a great person I will swap to free market and get a corp.. If I have a corp HQ and swap to SP does that mean I can't spread my corp anywhere or just my own lands?

 

[Archon_Wing]

Unless I have set up a solid corporation and can afford it (Wall Street Shrine Corp /w courthouses everywhere would help...) or I need to grow some more votes for a diplo victory; I don't see why I'd run anything besides State Property. Which is most of the time unless I'm roleplaying McCarthy.

However, if I really do have something like a prosperous Mining Inc and can afford it with environmentalism, this issue would never come up anyways.

In other words, when I actually can adopt environmentalism, it doesn't really matter anymore. If you are rich and other people aren't and thus can't afford-- forcing UN environmentalism on them is pretty funny though. So the only use for me usually is that it's so bad, that it's used to screw people over.

I think I'm unusual. I dislike the UN more than the AP. I always try to abuse the AP if I can get it or the AP religion so getting Mass Media hurts. I lose production for starters and also some diplo manipulation. The one time I'll try for Mass Media is if somebody in a religion I don't have has the AP. Then it's time to be uncharacteristically generous and trade it to whoever built the AP. I only like dogpiles if I'm a piler, I hate being the pilee. For me the UN is used for Diplomation. Aside from that it's a painful reality somebody else builds.

I actually prefer having control of the AP myself since those ap hammers work wonders in the crappiest of cities. The AP is also easier to manipulate; as people start switching to Free religion, you can hold more sway, and other heathens that switch to FR won't hate you as much.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Environmentalism is a damage civic to some extent. When your tiles don't suffer much for it and you're not packing very expensive corps, it doesn't harm you much. That makes UN forcing it an excellent way to troll the mass workshop guy nearby .

If you're suffering for health, that's a decent benefit. Not worth what you give up from the other econ civics, but it might improve your relative position when everyone else suffers more.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Which might bring up another use if you have an opponent who has SP and won't allow you to spread corps to them. Going from FM---> Environmentalism will cost more for you, but you probably already have courthouses setup to deal with the costs already. Taking them from SP----> Environmentalism, being unable to change back, and being "infected" by your corporations which ramps up their maintenance sounds like a good idea to screw people over.

 

[j_mie6]

urg I swapped to free market and nearly starved my IW city out The UN did single currency luckly

 

[AJ11]

All I will say to the forced Enviro civic change is that anyone who even ATTEMPTS to force me to change to Environmentalism (which I would defy on principle) has just written his own suicide note. That player will be removed from the game with EXTREME prejudice.

Against the AI, it would be the one time I break my "No Nuking" rule. After ensuring that every tile of his is glowing for the next 4 billion years, I will then proceed to raze every last one of his cities.

In mp, it would be an almost automatic declaration of war and complete dogpile by every AI I can bribe. I'd happily spend the entire treasury (which would have been built up due to corp spread) and every last one of my offensive units and nukes to ensure that player's total destruction. By which time, much of his ex-land would be glowing in the dark, and the only cities that used to be his still in existence will be the ones that the AI captured before I did.

Did I mention how much I HATE Enviromentalism?

 

[j_mie6]

hate to be an AI in your game

 

[AJ11]

hate to be an AI in your game

Hey! I am the nicest guy around. I'll generally never declare war, always have open border treaties with just about anyone, would rarely backstab anyone when someone else asks me to declare war, and trade with just about anyone.

I'm the original peacenik. But threaten me, or run into one of my pet peeves, and you will die at my hands, sooner or later.

 

[CreeDakota]

I don't think you need an answer anymore but once I commit to an Ecomomic civiic it is very rarely worth it to change. If I have a corp I'm very lothe to give Free Market, SP for my workshops and to avoid colony costs, and (rarely) Enviro for super sized healthy windmill cities.