Is it worth starting an early war to pick off a free worker. I'm talking about doing it very early in the game during the exploration phase. The negative for declaring war early means that civ will probably never be my ally. A free worker though is hard to pass up.
Stealing workers
- Thread starter jspanglet
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Izmir Stinger
Deity
This is a gambit that has several strategy articles about it. My take is that it becomes too risky on emperor+. It has been a while since I've done it.
Ignorant Teacher
Emperor
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Izmir Stinger
Deity
Well that was a worker steal followed by an axe rush. The rush got you the land, and you would have gotten that worker anyway, you just opted for sooner rather than later. I think the OP means just stealing the worker, not combined with any other early gambit.
So, revising my statement, on Emperor+ worker stealing is too risky unless it is combined with a more comprehensive early gambit like Archer Stasis or a rush.
Ignorant Teacher
Emperor
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No worker steal, I'd have to capture four cities, instead of two.
Izmir Stinger
Deity
Granted, but you wouldn't have done it if you hadn't been willing to follow through with the axes, right?
Back in my pre-monarch days I'd steal a worker just for the worker and maybe pillaging a few of the improvements he'd built. I don't do that anymore. It would usually be suicide.
Ignorant Teacher
Emperor
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Izmir Stinger
Deity
He used a stasis gambit (and dind't pull it off quite right, you have to be adjacent to the city to completely prevent workers and settlers slipping out, though it worked out OK). I could be completely wrong about what the OP means but back when I played on Prince, when I said worker steal, I meant capturing a worker and then suing for peace at the first opportunity. No rushing. No stasis/choking. Just the worker. That is what I am describing as not worth the risk on high levels. They will bounce back too fast, and hold a grudge. Neither of the games you've linked to have done that, they are an opportunistic worker steal as the opening move for a more sophisticated gambit. That is something I do and consider worth the calculated risk.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Choking is OK with catapults involved but I never seem to be able to swing those in time w/o crashing (not entirely, but to the extend that I'd have been better off just not choking).
Gut punches like worker-steal and taking 1 city then peace are effective if 1) this doesn't screw diplo with other civs than the target and 2) the target won't voluntarily vassal easily.
Gut punches like worker-steal and taking 1 city then peace are effective if 1) this doesn't screw diplo with other civs than the target and 2) the target won't voluntarily vassal easily.
iggymnrr
Deity
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Couple of interesting threads popping up lately. Been thinking about dialing up HC on deity. Research is indicating that more than worker stealing is possible like killing of scouts pronto. Don't know how well I can handle the level but the early build order isn't too taxing on the memory.
CivIVMonger
Emperor
If you DoW and declare to steal the worker, wouldn't the AI be building units instead?
Udey1
Prince
Based on the above statement I can say you probably don't know what deity is like.
worker stealing is something I rarely do, it's really something I should look into. It may save me headaches on AIs with a lot of room to expand but slowing them down.
Choking is also a problem, I can't get enough forces there to withstand their archers suiciding my warrior to hold them off for long. And even still, AIs will improve their land and expand if I don't surround the city, and to me it's VERY difficult to get that amount of force to their capital before the second city is founded.
Choking is also a problem, I can't get enough forces there to withstand their archers suiciding my warrior to hold them off for long. And even still, AIs will improve their land and expand if I don't surround the city, and to me it's VERY difficult to get that amount of force to their capital before the second city is founded.
CivIVMonger
Emperor
What difficulty are you currently able to beat?
I think it depends on which AI you're talking about. Some AIs, after you steal their worker, won't rest until you're dead, or at least until you give them a city/capture a city from them. Others will be willing to make peace after a while.
Udey1
Prince
I think its a bad idea to even think about it on Deity in most cases. The AI will have an extra city on you, so they are not likely to want peace. They start with all basic techs so they may even have strat resources hooked up, then you are in big trouble for sure. You won't be capturing any cities with your worker steal (mentioned above). Yeah you can get away with it on immortal easily, not so for deity in my opinion.
capnvonbaron
Democratia gladii
I love stealing workers on monarch and below. You have to determine a few things first:
1. Can you defend your capital? I once DoW'd my neighbor, not knowing where his starting warrior was. My second warrior was out exploring while the first one nabbed the worker. A turn later, his warrior appeared at my border 2 turns from my capital, and the fastest I could build a defender was 5 turns
Civs that start with a scout instead of a warrior are usually a lot safer to DoW very early.
2. Would being his friend eventually help you? I often leave Mansa or Cyrus alone, since I know they will usually be friendly tech-traders later. Jerks like Monty or super-fast expanders like Sury are great to cripple early -- Monty will build units yes, but it will take him forever without improved land and you can tech toward archery or BW. Sury is great because he and I never get along and he makes workers quickly anyways
3. How will I get the worker back to my capital? If the barbs are already out, getting that captured worker back to your turf can be tough. IMO worker raids lose a lot of their worth if you can't use the worker you cap'd.
4. Will the move cause a ruckus in the international community? Obviously its worth picking on the unpopular guy if you can.
I also consider worker raids on civs that have super-start locations with either lots of food bonuses, horses, precious metals, or bronze if I'm in the mood to conquer them eventually. On lower dificulty levels, that worker raid can often make them a softer target once you get chariots or axes built.
1. Can you defend your capital? I once DoW'd my neighbor, not knowing where his starting warrior was. My second warrior was out exploring while the first one nabbed the worker. A turn later, his warrior appeared at my border 2 turns from my capital, and the fastest I could build a defender was 5 turns
Civs that start with a scout instead of a warrior are usually a lot safer to DoW very early.2. Would being his friend eventually help you? I often leave Mansa or Cyrus alone, since I know they will usually be friendly tech-traders later. Jerks like Monty or super-fast expanders like Sury are great to cripple early -- Monty will build units yes, but it will take him forever without improved land and you can tech toward archery or BW. Sury is great because he and I never get along and he makes workers quickly anyways
3. How will I get the worker back to my capital? If the barbs are already out, getting that captured worker back to your turf can be tough. IMO worker raids lose a lot of their worth if you can't use the worker you cap'd.
4. Will the move cause a ruckus in the international community? Obviously its worth picking on the unpopular guy if you can.
I also consider worker raids on civs that have super-start locations with either lots of food bonuses, horses, precious metals, or bronze if I'm in the mood to conquer them eventually. On lower dificulty levels, that worker raid can often make them a softer target once you get chariots or axes built.
