Steph's mod

[greenmtnsun]

So when can I get on a ship with my settlers? The transporter who carries 8?

 

[Steph]

The first ship that can carry settlers is the caravel, and then the galleon.
But America cannot build them : they are for non american civ only (so the European can discover America, not the other way around ).
If you want to carry settlers, you need to wait for the troop ship.

 

[Bobisback]

Originally posted by greenmtnsun
So when can I get on a ship with my settlers? The transporter who carries 8?

Sucks to be you

 

[greenmtnsun]

Me not thrilled about this. And yes, Bobisback, it does Suck to be me!

Ok, back to the tech tree. I think there are multiple valid opinions. Is there perhaps a way you could draw the new tech tree in a flow chart or something so we can at least have a printout with us as we go through the game? (That might be a good compromise)

 

[Warlord 101]

Maybe an earlier ship could be introduced for the sake of native American Civs (Without the world map, Americans being grounded to a tiny island isn't fun)

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by greenmtnsun
Me not thrilled about this. And yes, Bobisback, it does Suck to be me!

Ok, back to the tech tree. I think there are multiple valid opinions. Is there perhaps a way you could draw the new tech tree in a flow chart or something so we can at least have a printout with us as we go through the game? (That might be a good compromise)

Go here for the flow chart

As the american get all the best units at the end (the last 2 eras), I've weaken them in the first eras. Perhaps a bit to much.
Remember you are playing beta, so your ffedback is important to try to correct the pb.

I'll try to introduce an earlier ship for American, that will come at the same time as Galleon, but will not be able to cross oceaN
Does it seem OK, or still to hard?

 

[Warlord 101]

It seems more balanced and restricting it from crossing Oceans also means that they cannot discover the rest of the world (Until Later) but can be discovered by the rest of the world. But the Computer doesn't often come looking for America. One game of DyP I had as the Iroquis (back on 1.05) I had to discover the rest of the world becase they were too lazy to look for me and the Aztecs.

 

[greenmtnsun]

wow that tech tree is enourmouse! It's really helpful to have that!

As for the Americans... I'm not sure what to say. I guess I look at it this way, its not like you can give the Americans a HUGE continent and have them discover it in 1496 and then have enough time to basically populate it, and win some wars against other civs. Had you been able to protect that in that respect, then yes it makes perfect sense. Instead, we randomly generate a map, then we start in 5000 BC, which is 6500 years different than reality. So can we really treat the civs as we would in real life if they were the ones to discover everything they originally discovered? Has anyone already flushed an answer to this in general? Its more of a question for Civ in general.

So I guess what I am saying, is that while America does get the advantages in the future, as a player, if you're America, you're kinda limp if you get stuck on a small island, and then if you do add a mediocre boat, you're at a disadvantage to the civs who were in existence during their time period. Maybe that's the way it should be, but in a selfish way, I want to travel my "earth" and start taking over the "planet" NOW!!! LOL

In the end, I don't know if I'm presenting any solutions, but rather explaining my mindset.

As for it being a beta, I should have given you more encouragement and not have made it sound so potentially non acceptant. I knew it was a beta, and for a beta, its great! No worries, this is what beta testing is all about! You're dedicating a TON of time to make this and I want to make sure I affirm that and thank you for your non selfish contributions to the community!

Grace and peace,
Keith

 

[Steph]

My remark about the beta was not a complain, just a reminder that I need such feedback and critics to improve the game : I don't have time to play all the civ myself, so I try to "imagine" how it will be, but it may not be enough.

Here is what I'll do regarding ships : The cog will arrive instead of the caraval in the first era. Then in the second era the caravel and the galleon will appear, and I will add the travelling canoe for the American and Aztec, available at the end of the first era. It will not be able to cross ocean, but can go in sea and coast. So it should give a limited expansion possibility. However, it will be rather slow, and can carry only one unit.
As the galleon will appear a bit later than they are now, I will make them available to American and Aztec

Would it be OK that way?

 

[greenmtnsun]

Sure, that would be fine.

So what did you think about the more philosophical side of my babbeling?

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Steph
My remark about the beta was not a complain, just a reminder that I need such feedback and critics to improve the game : I don't have time to play all the civ myself, so I try to "imagine" how it will be, but it may not be enough.

Here is what I'll do regarding ships : The cog will arrive instead of the caraval in the first era. Then in the second era the caravel and the galleon will appear, and I will add the travelling canoe for the American and Aztec, available at the end of the first era. It will not be able to cross ocean, but can go in sea and coast. So it should give a limited expansion possibility. However, it will be rather slow, and can carry only one unit.
As the galleon will appear a bit later than they are now, I will make them available to American and Aztec

Would it be OK that way?

I think the Galleas should come at the same time as Cog, it should be a flavor for Medditerranean civs.

 

[Steph]

Hm.. Isn't it already? Specific to Rome? I'll check at home with the mod in front of me.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by greenmtnsun
So what did you think about the more philosophical side of my babbeling?

CivIII is to limited to allow a real "simulation" of earth history.
First, we don't have event...

In my mod, I've chosen to try to match history a lot more than vanilla civ III does.
On a random map, it can give unfair result, like the American being stuck in a small island. It would work better on a world map, but I like also the randomness, and the discovery part. This includes some challenging situation, like when you are stuck between a desert and a jungle.

The key idea behind my mod is to make every civilization really different.

Vanilla civIII can be a bit boring, because the units are almost the same with every civilization : when you have played with one of them, you already know 99% of the other civilizations.

With Steph's mod, you have many flavour units, you also have non balance civilization, with real "golden and dark" period in history.

I personally find it enjoyable because I can play different game everytime. I cannot follow really closely history and make it so that each civ discover exactly what it did, but I can try to give a better feeling of this particular civilization.

It is sometimes unfair and unbalanced. But it was done on purpose. You don't like a civ that is limited at the beginning? Then try the Greek or the Roman.
You want a civ which is powerfull at the end? Then try the Russian or the American.
You want a civ which is good almost everytime, with real weakness? Try French of England.
You want a real challenge? Try Zululand or Aztec.

 

[Yoda Power]

Originally posted by Steph
Hm.. Isn't it already? Specific to Rome? I'll check at home with the mod in front of me.

I dont know did´nt check. I just think it should replace Cog and not Caravel.

 

[Steph]

If caravel are move forward, and are "replaced" by cog, then the flavour units that were supposed to replace caravel will probably replace cog instead

 

[Yoda Power]

actually I think caravel chould´s be moved forward, Cog should just be inbetween Caravel and Galley

 

[Steph]

I can't find cog in my dictionnary, so I'm not sure how it would translate in French...

But from the FLC, it seems that cog are ships with a very high front and back (sorry, I'm not a naval expert, so I don't know the correct terminology in English), which are typical to medieval boats. To me, these ships would fit the crusade era well : I ca imagine Frankish knights sailing to the holy land when I see them.

The caravel is a late 15th century boats : Colombus sailed for America (well, for India) with 3 caravels.

So the upgrade would be

Boat -> Galley -> Cog -> Caravel -> Galleon -> Troop ship

First 3 = 1st era, last 3 = 2nd era

 

[Yoda Power]

is I agree with that line. BTW look under Kogge, thats actually the most corret name for the ship.

 

[Steph]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
is I agree with that line. BTW look under Kogge, thats actually the most corret name for the ship.

Not in my dictionary either...

 

[Yoda Power]

then google it. Kogges/Cogs were a Hanseatic invention btw.