stNES - A fresh start

[Capulet]

To Athens

We also suggest that you increase your army significantly.

 

[zjl56]

To Babalyon and Sumer:
From Persia:I will not help you destroy anyone.

 

[alex994]

OOC: Shang's the one without acess to the Yellow Sea right?

 

[conehead234]

To: Delian League
From: Lydia
The only one that we want is Athens. But is Sparta wants to be a part of the Lydian Empire, they can be too. Give up the colony in Asia Minor, or else.

 

[erez87]

Shang is the one with accese to the sea. I made you there cause thats where you wanted your capital

from Athense
to Sparta:
Yes we know we need to grow our army.

 

[Xen]

I'll take Rome....

 

[Xen]

To: the World
From: Rome

Rome lays claim to the lands of Italy,Sicilly, Corsica, and Sardinia.

if other natiosn respect that claim, there will be no hostilities between our lands.

 

[alex994]

Shang Orders
Increase economy by mining bronzein the nearby hills
issue a decree to have citizens settle northwest
new Project: Military Increases(+20 army divisions)

 

[erez87]

oox:
xen. Rome doesn't know corsica sardinia and sicily exist. Already southern italy is under other coutnries rule and soon so will sicily... don't start history lecturies they don't changed this world history. Rome is right now a tiny city states fighting celtic tribes...

 

[North King]

Armenian orders:

Expand specifically towards the Caspian and Black Seas.

Increase Economy

 

[Capulet]

To Lydia

What empire? We will send you running back to your mountains.

Orders sent.

 

[alex994]

Nation Name: Sparta
Capital: Sparta
Ruler: Alexander Capulet
Government: Democracy

Ehh..not to doubt ur power erez, but isn't kinda early for a democracy?

 

[erez87]

Athense was a democracy. Thats type of democracy is allowed, like ancient Athense.

Thought Sparta was never democracy not even the early type I guss in this nes sparta will be democracy-navy and athense monarchy-army ?

 

[Capulet]

Actually, Sparta was a democracy. It had a constitution, land reform, an assembly, etc.
http://www.elysiumgates.com/~helena/Revolution.html

First Democracy: Revolution and Land Reform
The Spartan Constitution is most commonly dated to the early 7th Century BC.

It is the first know constitution which vested the supreme power in the hands of an Assembly composed of all citizens.

Thus, Sparta was the first known functioning Democracy -- roughly 150 years before the introduction of Democracy in Athens.

Furthermore, Sparta was the only Greek City-State to introduce a Land Reform, dividing property equally among its citizen.



Ancient historians had no convenient system for marking the dates of events - which makes it even more difficult for modern historians to try to apply dates to the events described. We therefore have no way of dating the Spartan Revolution with certainty. Ancient sources agree, however, that following a period of "unrest" - possibly even a rebellion of some kind - new, revolutionary laws were introduced. These laws were submitted to the Oracle at Delphi for approval, which advised the Spartans that they would live better under these laws than any other. Thereafter, this radical new form of government was copied and modified in other Greek City-States.

As is typical of early, innovative institutions, later innovations in the other cities made the Spartan democracy appear "conservative" as time went by. Thus, Sparta never entirely freed itself of its Kings. Two, jointly ruling hereditary Kings from different families held restricted and mostly ceremonial functions throughout Sparta's history as an independent state. Very much as the English monarchy functions today.

Another notoriously "conservative" aspect of the Spartan constitution was the "Council of Elders". Although this body was elected, as were similar institutions in other cities, the Elders had be over 60 years of age and were elected for life. In consequence they were not subject to the most effective of democratic censures: re-election.

In addition to the Kings and Council, however, Sparta had the distinctly democratic institutions of "Ephors" and the Assembly itself.

The "Ephors" were five officials or executives responsible for carrying out the day-to-day running of the city including the receiving and sending of ambassadors. They were elected for only one year and could not be re-elected.

The Assembly, which is believed to have met on a monthly basis, was composed of all adult males. Although it could only vote on the bills presented by the Council/Ephors, the common misconception that the Assembly could only vote "yes" or "no" is belied by accounts of lively (not to say rowdy) debates. The Spartan Assembly was powerful and was even known to have exiled Kings. Nevertheless, the Spartan Assembly never attained the absolute tyranny of the Athenian Assembly - a point praised widely by Ancient writers, who saw in Sparta's more balanced (two-chambered) democracy a means of controlling the fickleness of the mob.

The most radical feature of Sparta's constitution, however, was the introduction of Land Reform. Although this event too is lost in the mists of undated ancient history, all ancient historians agree that at some time (probably in the late 8th or early 7th Century BC by our reckoning) Spartan society underwent a severe crisis. A rebellion or civil war so threatened the continued existence of the city-state, that the citizens were prepared to accept extensive Reforms, effectively a new Constitution. This Constitution, reputedly developed by Lycurgus, included a redistribution of the land. The land was divided into equal plots of sufficient size to support a man and his family, and each citizen was given a plot, or estate, a "kleros." Henceforth, the Spartans called themselves "Equals" - because they were equal not only in rights but also in wealth.

There is no question that with time this equality of wealth was eroded. Whether by inheritance, marriage or the acquisition of new lands through conquest after the Land Reform, by the second half of the 5th Century BC wealth had become concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer families. Spartan citizens were no longer equally wealthy. Yet even so, the myth of equality remained powerful and laws prohibited the hoarding of wealth, even the ownership of gold and silver coins (possibly all gold and silver). The ostentatious display of wealth was frowned upon socially.

This set Sparta apart from the other Greek city states where the landed aristocracy, wealthy merchants and manufacturers engaged in extravagant displays of wealth and competed for the honour of donating the most generous gifts to their respective cities. Spartan dress, tastes, and style was notoriously modest. On the negative side, this reduced the magnificence of Spartan buildings and hence the archaeological heritage which could be passed on. On the positive side, the apparent disparity of wealth among citizens was greatly reduced. Whereas in other cities citizens could be reduced to beggary and it was not uncommon for the slaves of wealthy men to enjoy more material well being than poor citizens, every Spartan citizen had at least a small "kleros" to support himself and his family.

 

[North King]

Sparta was much more a Free Oligarchy than a Democracy. A few aristocrats and two kings held most of the power, then the free citizens, then, on the bottom, the helots.

 

[alex994]

Yeah capulet, but please look at the dates...

 

[Capulet]

It had an all-male legislature,

 

[Capulet]

Yeah capulet, but please look at the dates...

Okay, Wang, the Spartans are freedom-loving while the Chinese are commie-loving.

You're never young enough to be free!

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Official Subese Empire Document

Orders:
Send citizens to settle along the South American coast
Increase Economy

 

[alex994]

Okay, Wang, the Spartans are freedom-loving while the Chinese are commie-loving.

Watch your mouth mocking China! IT seems that the Spartan nation no longer exists in rl, while China is a world power....I wonder why...