STR-03 Viking Traders

Alright. We should bring the world back into peace. It's the most honorable thing to do at the moment since we can't agree on who should be punished.

As for trading partners, I agree with Pvblivs. If we want Tokugawa as our friend, we need to get rid of his enemies as trading partners, otherwise we will be at war sooner rather than later. This would mean dumping Asoka and Mansa.
 
As far as diplomacy goes Mansa and Asoka are non entities. Neither one large enough now or potentially to have a major impact in the voting. They could be useful as filler voters, maybe.

I see two potential opponents: Huyana and Qin. This does not mean we have to write them off as friends, it just means we don't have to worry about "You traded with our worst enemy" penalties.

That leaves Shaka and Toku as the swingers. Ouch.

Best possible outcome would be to have Huyana as our opponent in the vote. Then we can leverage the naturally agressive Toku and Shaka as his natural enemies.

And I think the war with Asoka was managed as well as it could be. Unfortunate we had both of them as trading partners when it broke out. The next obvious step is to leverage our position to make Toku our peaceful Defensive Pact partner.
 
The variant still obliges us to declare on Toku but my impression is everybody just wants to go for diplo and cancel the variant.

On long term Toku isn't a good trading partner cause his favorite civic is mercantilism.
 
Asperger said:
The variant still obliges us to declare on Toku but my impression is everybody just wants to go for diplo and cancel the variant.

We aren't cancelling the variant at all. I'm just flexing it to this situation to prevent complete chaos.
 
Everybody wants to make profit of the fact that karr didn't declare on Toku, even make him our biggest trade partner.

You can't say that we are not canceling the variant and at the same time refusing to declare on Toku. The variant says that Toku gets a declaration of war. Karr's 'mistake' then only give us a few negative diplo points from Asoka.
 
I have always thought that Realpolitik trumped the rules....though honor trumps all.

If honor demands a declaration on Toku then I shall have at it and deliver him a chastisement forthwith.
 
Asperger said:
You can't say that we are not canceling the variant and at the same time refusing to declare on Toku.

Cancelling the variant would mean that we would dump it for the rest of the game. I too would have wished karr to declare war on Toku in the first place, but now the best thing to do is end this situation quickly. I can live with it, though in the next STR-games I will be less complying with people breaking variants. It happened in STR-01 as well and it is highly annoying, especially when it breaks up the team like this.
 
Bede said:
I have always thought that Realpolitik trumped the rules....though honor trumps all.

If honor demands a declaration on Toku then I shall have at it and deliver him a chastisement forthwith.

That's language i can understand. Let's thriumph or fall in honor:clap:

(my most memorable sg was the only one i lost..)
 
karr1255 said:
Alright I destroyed the game, nobody ever made a worse decision in a SG. :rolleyes: If everybody is so bothered by my screwup regarding the variant, just replay the turns already or move on.

You didn't destroy it, we can still declare on Toku and what's left is a little diplomatic damage you caused to our relation with Asoka.
 
Well, here's the plan. Declare on Toku, remove his forces from India and Mali then drag him to make peace with everybody. I think that should be satisfactory to all, except maybe Toku.
 
Okay, it is decision time:

1) I have a loose scientist running around, and an academy in Uppsalla would gice us two cities turning out over 100bpt at 80% science, use him?

2) In a series of deals with Huyana, who is now Friendly BTW, I acquired Constitution, so change civics to Representation and Caste System, as we are now past the point where whipping makes sense in our core towns? We will get a real boost from Representation and Caste at the food heavy towns in the west and can start churning Merchants for Trade Missions to China or to balance the food and commerce output at home.

I think I just answered my own question #2 as we have eight turns to the Taj and then ten turns of GA to get through before anarchy would be attractive anyway, so it is something for the next player to think about, but question #1 still stands.

War has not started with Toku yet as I am still moving into position to deal him some damage.
 
Bede said:
Okay, it is decision time:

1) I have a loose scientist running around, and an academy in Uppsalla would gice us two cities turning out over 100bpt at 80% science, use him?

That sounds attractive. It's more useful to speed up all future techs by one or two turns than speeding up one tech a lot of turns now.
 
Looks good everywhere, as we are spinning gold out of the air at a wonderful rate, running research towards the UN. But somebody has to deal with the bad boy on the continent, teach him a little lesson, though it looks like the Malinese and the Indians are in fact holding their own.

I am tempted to merely extort everyone into peaceful relations, but then I and reminded that I need to have some skin in the game if I am going to so this with honor.....so the troops start the long march across Mali to Osaka.

While that is going on I get command of our errant caravels and send two galleons up the Indian Mail coast line. To pick up the survivors of the battle of Osaka and move them forward to Tokyo should that become necessary.

During the march Huyana coems along and demands Education. I comply for the diplomatic benefit (keep your friends close and your enemies closer being the operative principle here), then cut him this deal for Constitution as it is a precursor to Corporation (surely a desired knowledge) and the Emancipation and Universal Suffrage techs (also desired I believe), if only for Statue of Liberty.

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Once all is in place on the north border of Mali I cancel the deals with Toku and declare war.

Facing off against a light opposition, in numbers anyway,

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with heavy attackong forces but rather thin on the seige engines,

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so it takes a couple rounds of bombardment to get the job done, but done it is, soon enough, and the losses rather light

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Asoka comes seeking our help with this empire development so of course I comply

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And from then forward it is but a waiting game, waiting for the army to heal and the seige engine reinforcement to arrive, for the Golden Age to begin with the completion of theTaj,

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And for Toku to come to his senses and agree to a cessation of hostilities.

While negotiating with Mansa on another subject

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I notice this

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He is a vassal of Asoka.

Now this presents an interesting possibility. He can get out of the deal if his population or territory grow, so what if we gift him Osaka, which is surrounded by his culture anyway even with its poor to fledgling border expansion (I set it to build culture during the resistance period so that when the resistance ended it would almost immediately get its first expansion - I really wanted to take back those dyes from Mansa. It did but not enough.) Anyway, I whipped in a granary, so why not give the town to Mali and it may grow fast enough to six, allowing Mansa to opt out of the vassalage deal with Asoka? As it currently stands the town brings nothing to the Viking trade empire.

So now along comes Quin, demanding that we cancel deals with India.

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I had to think on this one long and hard. He has the potential to become the UN opponent so how far do I want conciliate him? Not far enough

The only deal we have going wiht Asoka is Open Borders, and Asoka has gone mercantilist so his value to us as a trading partner is nil, but....His agreement with Mansa makes him potentially more powerful and may in fact put him back in the running as a significant UN voter. And since we have put our relationship with Toku on the same footing as our relationships with Mansa and Asoka I don't want to risk fracturing the Buddhist bloc any further by embargoing Asoka, and Qin will never be a co-religionist anyway.

The other counterweight to Huyana of course is Shaka. We are going to need his support. So maybe a concerted effort to bring him into the Buddhist bloc? This is all long drawn out musing as to why I didn't comply with the Chinese demand.

I have been pushing the specialists to get us a Great Merchant as a Trade Mission to China will be very very lucrative and certainly in keeping with the flavor of the game.

The last university finally finished and Oxford is queued in Nidaros after a cavalryman (I finally realized I could train them after I had slog marched zerks and seige to Osaka :crazyeye: Three or four cavalry would have made short work of both Osaka and Tokyo and maybe brought Toku to the table)

Research is pointed to Democracy in 6 or so. Uppsala is training military, everyone else is working banks (for Wall Street) or markets or some other form of retail establishment.

Once the GA is over we could do a major civics change if we wanted to.
 
With a war declaration we have payed our debts and the variant is right on track:) .
I agree with gifting Osaka to Mansa (Strauss: are we uberhaupt allowed to keep non-coastal city's?).
I'll go on with the war at least till we have our first great general.
Shaka is friendly towards Huayna so he's a big problem..
I'll revolt certainly to Emancipation. I would maybe go to free religion when Asoka does (it's his favorite civic).

Got it. Wait for some comments.
 
Good turns Bede. I don't think we should stay too close to China, Qin is a rat.

Asperger said:
Strauss: are we uberhaupt allowed to keep non-coastal city's?

You definitely have a sharp eye;). I didn't even notice it myself. Officially, the variant states we may not build coastal cities, however the idea of conquering cities somehow slipped my mind in writing it up. We should gift Osaka away, yes. This goes for possible future cities as well. We may capture inland cities during a war, but must hand it (back?) over after the war ends.

We should revolt to Emancipation. We should wait with Free Religion until others get to it.
 
Maybe we should try and get Qin to vote for us with the help of free religion. If Huayna is our opponent he will get Shakas vote. We get Asokas and Mansas(maybe but that won't matter anway) but that won't be enough to win. Also Asoka gives us what +9 for religion? If that's gone after free religion we're screwed.

I guess Toku will be pretty pissed now so maybe we should take Tokyo so we have at least something. :mischief:
 
We may not have continental cities except for one (our capital in this case). Gifting away is completely ok
 
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