Strategy differences on Large vs Small land mass

[jodok]

I have been playing Civ for quite a while now (since Civ1 on the Amiga ), and I used to be a Emperor player on Civ2, then a Monarch player on Civ3, and now on Civ4 I am barely getting along as a Prince player.

On small landmass and quick speed I usually do ok, and when I have time to finish my games, I usually manage to squeeze a Space Race victory or domination victory out of the game.

It is when I try to play Large/Epic that I seem to just grind to a halt. I do just fine in the beginning and usually I can manage my own for quite some time, though I never manage to expand as much as I'd like. However, after a while my economy just seems to stop and I end up having to run at a lowly 30-50% research, and then we all know what happens... I get behind in tech, nobody wants to trade with me, and then one of my larger neighbours declare on me...

The weird thing is that when I apply the same strategies to small/quick games I do a lot better!

So what is the big difference for Large/Epic compared to Quick/Small?

 

[LuckyAC]

It sounds like you are expanding too much, which would make sense as a difference for map size, to some degree.

 

[Sjaramei]

The smaller map you play the easier game you get. The key to Large/epic is to get much more cities than you are used to on smaller maps.
(game speed is important too, slower speeds makes warfare a lot easier so prioritize that)

So aim for Code of Laws and courthouses, it's extremely difficult financing a huge empire without courthouses in almost every city. If you have the organized trait it's very easy whipping courthouses in newly conquered cities with slavery. Else it's just go nuts on the cottage spam in most of your cities and get Democracy and emancipation and watch your economy go nuts

Sounds to me you need to work on your economic skills, 30-50% with courthouses is very low, cottage up more, and micromanage your cities to work growth/commerce squares. (use slavery to whip or workers to chop the important buildings. Not all cities need monstrous production)

 

[jodok]

The smaller map you play the easier game you get. The key to Large/epic is to get much more cities than you are used to on smaller maps.

So aim for Code of Laws and courthouses, it's extremely difficult financing a huge empire without courthouses in almost every city. If you have the organized trait it's very easy whipping courthouses in newly conquered cities with slavery. Else it's just go nuts on the cottage spam in most of your cities and get Democracy and emancipation and watch your economy go nuts

Sounds to me you need to work on your economic skills, 30-50% with courthouses is very low, cottage up more, and micromanage your cities to work growth/commerce squares. (use slavery to whip or workers to chop the important buildings. Not all cities need monstrous production)

I always try to build as much cottages as possible, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Also, I have noticed that it is difficult to keep the cities happy in the beginning of the game, since I don't usually have access to more than 1-2 luxuries, and I usually don't bother with religion unless I start with Mysticism.

Is it worth beelining for Monarcy to get HR and control happiness to grow my cities to gain research that way instead of trying to beeline for Currency/CoL as I usually do now?

 

[cabert]

my views on large vs small

pros for each map

small maps :
- techs are cheaper (a bit)
- resources are pretty condensed = almost every city can work 2/3/4 resources
- your neighbours are near
- you need less cities to allow national wonders/cathedrals


large maps :
- you have more room for more cities

hum, seems like small maps are easier

global strat for a small map :
- try to grab 2 city spots (= capital +1 or 2) with at least one military resources
- attack your neighbour(s)
- grab all the resources needed for large cities
- attack your neighbour(s)

global strat for large maps
- try to tech to pottery, while grabing a large number of good cities, with cottageable land
- cottage spam
- try to get a tech lead
- attack your neighbours

 

[Sjaramei]

I always try to build as much cottages as possible, but it doesn't seem to be enough. Also, I have noticed that it is difficult to keep the cities happy in the beginning of the game, since I don't usually have access to more than 1-2 luxuries, and I usually don't bother with religion unless I start with Mysticism.

Is it worth beelining for Monarcy to get HR and control happiness to grow my cities to gain research that way instead of trying to beeline for Currency/CoL as I usually do now?

In my games i don't beeline to anything else than CoL. I usually get currency/monarchy by trading. But there are some strategies involving getting monarchy fast, you can get a decent sized capital from it very fast. And you should always try to secure some happiness resources with warfare. Just look at your map and plan a war for it

Are you beelining civil service and cottaging up your capital? Bureaucracy with good cottages makes a huge impact on your science. (civil service is very good to trade with, though expensive at the time)

 

[jodok]

I guess I usually do something like this:

- Research techs needed to hook up resources around my capital. (eg Fishing, AH, Masonry)
- Then research to Bronze Working, if not found nearby go for Iron Working.
- Then research towards Currency and CoL.

I usually build 2-3 warriors in my capital first, 1 for scouting, 1 for defense and 1 for escorting the first settler. Then I build a worker and a settler, and then a second worker.

I try to get 3-5 cities going depending on the map size. If I have any close neighbours I often try to do a quick Axe/Sword rush on one of them and then settle into a period of growth before I decide what to do next.

I guess my problem is that I never know what to focus on, so I fall somewhere inbetween, becoming neither a warmonger nor a science buff...

 

[Heeringas]

Small is pretty much what Cabert said...easy
you don´t need to build more than 1-3 settler in the game...or if you have copper in capital and neighbour near by it´s possible to skip settlers complitely...
Anyway even on small map I usually have about 12-15 cities later in the game...

Huge map allows TOO many cities... But its lot easier to specialize the empire in huge than small map...In small you end up building university and bank for example to most of your cities, because you need 6 to build Oxford or wall st...On huge some of your cities just do certain buildings and rest of the time build wealth or research.

OR if you really go crazy whip 2 units from all of your cities and you suddenly have 200 units ...

I would like to play huge...but my computer is too old and I´m micromanagin too much...Huge takes almost hour a turn in later phase of the game...too much for me (even thought I like the game)

 

[cabert]

I would like to play huge...but my computer is too old and I´m micromanagin too much...Huge takes almost hour a turn in later phase of the game...too much for me (even thought I like the game)

same for me
+ PC crashes every other turn. I started one huge map, prince level, 1 year ago. Never could finish it.

 

[DutchJob]

Cabert is the KHAN of the Civ community if you ask me. He seriously f#$ks up some otherwise peaceful minds here.

Youre mission in the World according to Cabert:

- settle as few cities as possible;
- look around for the good land and say hello to the neighbours;
- build 6 axemen;

You then visit either the closest civilization or the one with the best lands with these guys, say hello again, and make them an offer they can't refuse: joining Cabert's Empire of Frogs or go sleeping with the fishes.

Having done that you prepare for other visits till everybody is like you.

Are you from Corsica Cabert?

Michel

 

[jodok]

Cabert is the KHAN of the Civ community if you ask me. He seriously f#$ks up some otherwise peaceful minds here.

Youre mission in the World according to Cabert:

- settle as few cities as possible;
- look around for the good land and say hello to the neighbours;
- build 6 axemen;

You then visit either the closest civilization or the one with the best lands with these guys, say hello again, and make them an offer they can't refuse: joining Cabert's Empire of Frogs or go sleeping with the fishes.

Having done that you prepare for other visits till everybody is like you.

Are you from Corsica Cabert?

Michel

Hey, why the trolling? Everybody has behaved nicely in this thread, and this is a discussion forum, so people are allowed their own opinions...

 

[cabert]

Cabert is the KHAN of the Civ community if you ask me. He seriously f#$ks up some otherwise peaceful minds here.

Youre mission in the World according to Cabert:

- settle as few cities as possible;
- look around for the good land and say hello to the neighbours;
- build 6 axemen;

You then visit either the closest civilization or the one with the best lands with these guys, say hello again, and make them an offer they can't refuse: joining Cabert's Empire of Frogs or go sleeping with the fishes.

Having done that you prepare for other visits till everybody is like you.

Are you from Corsica Cabert?

Michel

Hi Michel,

I'm from Alsace, not Corsica.
Jodok asked for differences in strats, and I think I answered him rather correctly.
Do you think civ 4 is a peaceful game? AFAIK it isn't, and I have a good way to tell : there are 2 militaristic victories, there are loads of military units, there are loads of promotions for your units.
So IMHO, having military strategies for civ 4 is quite normal.
Did you check the GotM results lately? usually, the winners are super early domination victories, and some conquest wins are in the BC. Am I the khan? I don't think so.


And for your information, I have won every single victory condition at least once, so I know how to build up culture, how to tech, how to trade, how to slow your opponents. I can even tell you that my prefered victory condition is cultural.

 

[Zachron]

I think if they are going to change up the city requirements for national wonders/cathedrals, they ought to make religions spread more often, and city upkeep slightly smaller on Huge maps.

 

[cabert]

I think if they are going to change up the city requirements for national wonders/cathedrals, they ought to make religions spread more often, and city upkeep slightly smaller on Huge maps.

I don't know about religions spreading more often (I don't even understand why you mention this), but the city upkeep is indeed slightly smaller on larger maps (distance from capital has less effect).

 

[DutchJob]

excuse me people. trolling? was just f*$king around.

you people are being uptight here. seriously. i was in no way seriously intending that the person of Cabert is as bad as the 'Khan's' once were.

just wrote this down because C. ususally comes with this violent advise. i'm not THAT different btw., if you wanna know. no hippie here attacking the 'neo-nazi'.

this was not an attack.

i am soooooooo sorry jodok for writing something in your thread.

i know civ4 is about war. of all the units most are for fighting. i can count.

will leave you people alone. again my apologies for just noticing something.

M.

 

[jodok]

No need to get upset about anything. I just felt that none of cabert's posts in this thread justified using the language in your post.

Please post any constructive critisism you might have, but if you feel like you don't have any useful inputs to the topic, then why post at all?