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Strategy discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Rhye, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. rogue131

    rogue131 Byzantine Historian

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    ? you mean by use of the admin pass in game?
     
  2. krieger546

    krieger546 Chieftain

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    Hi all!

    I decided to give something back to the community for all those great tips & guides by writing a strategy guide for German UHV on Emperor. I intend to put it in the wiki but I would like to get some *constructive* feedback first. Here goes:
    Spoiler :
    I recently completed the German UHV on Emperor and would like to share some humble advice in addition to that of aprog.

    Cities built

    As previously written, found Danzig, Reval, Faustindorf & Budapest.

    Faustindorf & Budapest are great production cities. Use them to build up your initial army and capture Rom.

    Frankfurt can build all the wonders (see Wonders) or be used to kill some civs.

    Danzig & Reval will be the backbone of your economy. Cottage *all* tiles except those with resources and you’ll reap some serious research. Don’t worry, they’ll be fine with Christian Temple & Monastery + Levee. Danzig has fewer cottages than Reval but will nevertheless be your #1 science city because it can grow larger and out-tech Reval with Representation. To max it out, build Trading Company & Channel Tunnel there.

    Cities taken

    As Germany, you’ll want to have less but more productive cities to minimize the tech penalty. Which means you’ll raze most cities you take.

    The first cities you’ll take control of will be Venedig (raze it) and Rom. I used a Great Engineer to build Forbidden Palace there to counter French culture during the initial years of peace. The nicest things I built in Rom were stacks of 6XP Privateers – if you have a good tech lead and use them Privateers to help bolster it, these stacks will be invincible until your own vassals sink them. Easy money.

    I prefer to conquer Vikings first for three reasons:
    1. Usually most other civs hate them so what can be better than mutual military struggle?
    2. Scandinavia is in your yellow area so little stab worries.
    3. No one is likely to invade those cities so little defence worries.
    Scandinavia has room for 3 cities: Luleå (1S of Copper), Uppsala (2S of Deer) and Bergen (2S of Whale). Luleå and Uppsala make decent cottage farms. Bergen is optional and lies there only for resources.

    In France there is room for one good city: Tours (on Uranium, between Paris and Bordeaux). This will be your highest-pop city so Opera House + National Park is a good combination. Cottage all non-resource tiles and it will be your #3 science city.

    On the British Isles, there’s room for 3 good cities: London, Inverness & Dublin (1E of Sheep, you may have to build it yourself). Watermills & Windmills everywhere.

    In Russia, I like to keep Moskau and build Vologda (4N of Moskau), Samara (5E of Moskau, 1S of Oil) & Stavropol (1N of Sheep). Vologda is a decent cottage farm, other cities build Farms & Windmills everywhere.

    There is a brutal way and a cunning way to get Greece. The brutal way would be to conquer it. I’m not fond of that option:
    1. In the early game, Byzantium is actually the only direction you don’t have to wait an attack from. No need to DOW on them.
    2. The same goes for Turkey. Usually it’s possible to convince them to convert to Christianity. They will sign a Defensive Pact so no other civ will DOW on you at an inconvenient moment. They will be friendly towards you till the end and provide you with resources and you can even steal some techs from them. No need to DOW on them.
    3. You’d waste all that load of culture and all those resources you could use to conquer the rest of Europe. Besides it’s more convenient to let Turkey develop these cities for you.

    I present to you the cunning way of getting Greece. Usually Turkey will keep conquering until they span from Ethiopia to India. This certainly is not good for stability, or science rate. And when you get them friendly, they are willing to change civics (or even religion) on demand. Not good for stability either. The trick is to ask them to change civics one by one as often as possible in exchange for a tech that gives them access to new civics. Let them change religion if possible. Let them declare war. Cancel the Defensive Pact as it gives them extra stability. Blockade them with 6XP Privateers from Rom. Use your spies to foment unhappiness. Do whatever you can to cause instability. Once they collapse, ask for Athen and Konstantinopel on a Congress. These cities will retain all their culture and have most buildings. Score in the footsteps of Machiavelli. Raze the Indy cities in Asia Minor and you get some extra resources for your corporations with culture.

    Cities’ Notes

    At least Danzig, Reval and Tours (in that order) should get Academies if possible. Except in the early game, using Great Scientist (or any other Great Person for that matter) for bulbing is not worth it due to your enormous science output. Start a Golden Age or found a corporation instead.

    To take the most advantage of wonders, the first buildings in new cities should be Christian Monastery followed by Christian Temple (see Wonders).

    Leave forests alone as much as possible in production cities (Lumbermills later) for extra production and health.

    To really take the most out of your economy, you’ll want four corporations in all of your cities: Sushi, Constructions, Aluminium & Jewel. By the end of the game, all your cities will be 20+ size and half of your cities will be 30+ size. I built the HQ in Rom because that matches the Holy City symbol but I suppose there’s no real difference where you choose your money city to be. Just build Stock Exchange in the same city.

    Drain your vassals of all the resources that your corporations use. Spread Constructions Co. to your vassals’ cities for the money and leave them with a single Aluminium resource to keep the corporations going and to build modern units.

    Try to conquer the cities you intend to keep before the civ collapses because otherwise cities’ population will be 99% Independent instead of 100% German after the collapse and they will yearn to join their motherland.

    Civics

    I recommend choosing Slavery over Serfdom at least initially on the following grounds:
    1. You’ll want to whip a Monument in Danzig, Reval, Faustindorf and Budapest a turn after founding them, because Christianity takes it’s time spreading.
    2. You need to whip one or two workers ASAP in all of those cities to turn them into productive cities fast.
    3. You never know when and how many of your neighbours will surprise you with DOW. Once Vikings, Russians and French did it on the same turn.:)

    Hereditary Rule + Vassalage + Slavery + Organized Religion is a good combination until mid-game. Once you have researched Democracy, Liberalism & Economics, switch to Representation, Free Speech, Emancipation & Free Market;

    Free Speech & Emancipation to take your cottage economy to the max;

    Representation because you will have huge cities and uncountable specialists thanks to corporations;

    Free Market for the extra trade route and because you will have 4 corporations in all of your cities.

    Organized Religion is good enough until Computers obsoletes University of Sankore & Spiral Minaret, then switch to Free Religion for the +10% beakers bonus.

    If you know what you’re doing and wage your wars quickly, you will have no reason to adopt totalitarian civics. I didn’t even bother to adopt Occupation and still didn’t have stability problems due to strong economy. Germany’s production is so amazing war is a no-brainer. Even General Winter was a walk in a park with a Medic III unit (wish it had Woodsman III too, though). No use of Panzers as you don’t have nothing much to conquer by the time you get them.

    Wonders

    Lucky for you, Germany has both Stone & Marble at your disposal from the very beginning. This makes wonder building a breeze. In fact, with the right tech path and a bit of luck you can build *all* wonders and still conquer the world. The two absolutely critical wonders for Germany are University of Sankore and Spiral Minaret.

    Getting Spiral Minaret on Emperor is still pretty easy: just build an early Trireme and get Divine Right from Mali. Getting University of Sankore on Emperor is tricky, because the Chinese or even the English will beat you to Paper early unless you’re very, very lucky. The trick is to build Library first in Frankfurt and run 2 Scientists. After you build a Forge, add Engineer if you can and are willing to gamble a little. Use the Great Scientist to bulb Paper. And don’t get Meditation until you have Paper because then the GS would partially bulb Philosophy instead.

    Thanks to wonders, you’ll really want to build Christian Monastery & Temple in all your cities ASAP: you will get extra 4 Hammers (Apostolic Palace), 4 Gold (Spiral Minaret), 4 Beakers (University of Sankore) and maybe 10 Culture (Sistine Chapel) for free.

    Frankfurt is a great wonder city. In fact, I built *all* wonders & projects there except Forbidden Palace (Rom), Channel Tunnel (Danzig) & Space Elevator (Rom). Eventually, Amsterdam had only a single square left. May seem like some fetish but I suppose you get the most Great Persons this way.

    Techs

    Paper is best bulbed as described above. You can get Engineering & Guilds from Netherlands: simply build a Courthouse and generate a Great Spy as your 2nd Great Person. You can speed it up by hiring one more Engineer & one more Scientist – that should give getting Great Spy a 1/3 chance. Take 2 turns back if you fail & retry. Hope that Netherlands don’t build Notre Dame before you do.

    If you want all the wonders, start by researching Aesthetics > Literature > Drama > Music > Meditation > Philosophy. The game really starts to play itself by then.

    Speeding into the Future

    You could play a conservative endgame and discover all the last techs yourself as your tech lead will be enormous. Or you could speed it up by up to around 20 turns.

    First, you will need at least two really strong vassals. Incas are a good choice. Americans could be second, but I suppose Aztecs will do too. Once you have Astronomy, build 3 Galleons and load 9 settlers on them – building settlers should be very quick by then. Settle 9 good city spots in South America from Caracas to Buenos Aires and liberate all these cities immediately – your loyal vassals the Incans just got quadrupled in territory and resources. Do the same for Aztecs or Americans, whoever you choose as your other vassal. The objective is to give them good cities so they have a strong economy. You know the optimal city layout in America, don’t you?;)

    As a result, you will have two strong vassals: North America and South America. Gift them all the necessary techs to develop their economy and build a modern army, but don’t let them steal wonders or corporations from you. Around the time you give them Electricity, they should have a reasonable tech rate. Direct them to research some non-critical techs for you while you beeline Computers, build the Internet and get all those techs for free. Computers obsolete University of Sankore & Spiral Minaret, but Laboratories & Internet are worth it.

    A nice side effect is that you can demand a lot more resources from your vassals to feed your corporations. If possible, also vassalize Japan for their Fish & Rice. Spread Constructions Co. into their cities to earn money. Drain them of all those yummy resources except one Aluminium to build modern units and host your corporation. This last tip also works when playing with Japan.
    Fire away!:)

    EDIT: Does anyone have advice on how to keep inflation down?
     
  3. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    Nice guide krieger546. There is so much to do for a UHV like Germany, lots to cover in a guide.

    Personally, I prefer to take Constantinople first and Athens second. Hagia Sofia for the early worker speed bonus and Parthenon obviously for the great person bonus (especially on Emperor difficulty) I find are more important to get sooner than the Colosseum in Rome. But I totally agree with your strategy to not take Venice and just take Rome. However, I would suggest leaving Venice surrounded by your culture and it will eventually flip to you anyway, especially if Frankfurt is your capital (which I notice that you didn't actually mention in the guide - an oversight perhaps?).
     
  4. krieger546

    krieger546 Chieftain

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    Thanks! Very much appreciated. :)
    I didn't think the Hagia Sophia was worth the trouble but I totally overlooked the Parthenon bonus. :blush:
    I will try that approach. But what do you do about the Turks? Do you deal with them when they spawn or at a later time?
    What I don't like about that approach is that Spain or France will conquer it and I will suffer a close borders penalty during early game when I try to have good relations with everyone. Also, AI will garrison it with a huge stack, like 20+ units and I'm not comfortable with the idea of having all that trouble waiting in my back yard - despite the drain to AI economy from holding that city.
    I intended this to be an appendix to the 1.187 Monarch guide already in the wiki but I guess I got a little carried away. :D
     
  5. blizzrd

    blizzrd Micromanager

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    Shortly after spawn, raze Sogut and usually the next city to the East in Asia Minor (to allow Constantinopole to work all of it's tiles). Turkey will usually capitulate at about this point. They can then be a great source of happiness resources (Dye, Incense, etc.) as your vassal.

    You don't need good relations with everyone, just most other civs. If France takes Venice, this makes the eventual conquest of France so much easier because they will split their forces between Paris and Venice. Don't worry about the stack so much, the AI places them there to try to prevent a flip, not to attack. Just get them to switch civics (like you suggested) a lot and Venice will usually declare independence once they are Unstable.
     
  6. aprogressivist

    aprogressivist Chieftain

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    Great guide, krieger!
     
  7. The_K

    The_K Chieftain

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    I've been doing UHVs but there's one thing I never tested - can you control an area through a vassal?
    Say, if I have to control France, do I really need my city there, or can I vasalise France?
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: Controlling a civilization means to have more cities in that civilization's core than they do themselves, no matter if it's your vassal or not.
     
  9. The_K

    The_K Chieftain

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    Thank for the answer.
     
  10. Ready_set_go

    Ready_set_go Too Late

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    Does anyone ever start building the Colossus immediately when they start playing as Japan? Seeing as how the majority of your cities will be coastal, I feel the need to build that wonder is really high.

    And Maoi (Not sure if that's spelled right) Statues.

    And the Great Lighthouse. Pretty much anything that benefits coastal cities.
     
  11. Norton II

    Norton II Emperor

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    Don't know about immediately, but I think most people build those wonders pretty early when playing as Japan. It's been a while since I played Japan, but I think I generally build them in that order.
     
  12. SteveTR

    SteveTR Chieftain

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    Is it good to start colonizing some lands (Australia, Africa...), when I can (I have boats, and settlers)? Because that is what I´ve been doing last 5 games and i dunno, if it´s useful.
     
  13. Ready_set_go

    Ready_set_go Too Late

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    I colonize Indonesia, Phillipines and Australia... never done Africa, might spice up my game. Had times when I beat European powers to America, and then settled Vancouver and Incan cities.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    South Africa is worth it, especially Winburg.
     
  15. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber King

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    only one must-have city in africa, esp for willem (i hope i'm not mistaken with sugar:lol:)

    Spoiler :
     
  16. SteveTR

    SteveTR Chieftain

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    Hmm... I hope it´s not the wrong city, cause I settled there and its name is Abdju (I play as Egyptians).
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Abdju is Egypt's first standard name, so I guess their city name map doesn't cover South Africa.
     
  18. Ready_set_go

    Ready_set_go Too Late

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    Did you WB that city?

    It's getting +37, still has a monument, I don't know what's going on.
    It's called Winburg instead of an Egyptian name.
     
  19. SteveTR

    SteveTR Chieftain

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    I didn´t WB that city, I sent settlers there and just found it. Few turns later it declared independence :sad:
     
  20. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Look at the date and the minimap :)
     

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