Strategy with no iron

[madscientist]

OK, my game is with Roosevelt who is spamming wonders at an insane pace. BTS, Monarch/Marathon/Huge big/little maps. I founded Judaism, my closest neighbor is Brennus who founded Buddhism or Hinduism (don't remember which) but to invade will be costly and noway my economy can support the Celtic cities yet. He is cautious because I am running OR. Ragnar is also in contact.

Here's my question, there is not a scrap or iron anywhere in my 4 city empire or anywhere I can see (I have checked Brennus yet because we only recently got open borders). There is one close island to the north I also need to explore but let's say at the moment ther eis no iron.

What are the consequences of this and how can I defend (I have copper and horses)

1) No swordsmen. Not a problem unless I need to take some cities, which is not in the plan.
2) Midevil: OK, no knights/crossbows/pikemen but I can create trebs/cats/macemen/longbows. Can I defend myself with these until gunpowder and military tradition? grenaders come quite a bit later in BTS.
3) The iron works is now only 50% production assuming I can find coal.
4) The eifel tower does not get the 100% bonus for access to iron. Any other wonders that need iron?
5) Can I build railroads? I know I need coal but I am not sure about iron.

Any other potential problems because of lack of iron. I think items 3 4 and 5 I will address by oversea colonies if need be.

 

[frob2900]

Horses+copper save the day.

Horse Archers + Axemen + Spearmen + Catapults are more than sufficient in the classical age.

In the early medieval Macemen + Catapults + Longbowmen + Horse Archers should be ok to defend you empire (at least pre-engineering)

Important beeline: Gunpowder. With musketmen + trebuchets (+ drafting, if possible) you can dominate the medieval age and take any iron you need (for cannons, mostly at that point)

 

[IronCrown]

You should have no problem defending yourself without iron, axes/maces and longbowmen is all you need. Later on you may well be able to obtain iron from someone for 2-3 other resources. Depends on the other AIs, but usually I get at least one AI that will give me iron, though they charge a lot for it. If your map features some islands, there is also a good chance you can settle one with iron on it.

 

[JimT]

Edit: I was well and truly beaten to the post

You don't have to sit back and defend (unless you want to)

1) Lack of Swordsmen is a problem. Horse archers are useful for defending your borders but not as effective against cities, so axes may be needed. Sounds like you have left it too late for an effective rush so you may want to wait for catapults.
2) In the early stage cats and axemen should be able to take cities. Your problem will be defending (no knights to prevent pillaging) so I would go on the offensive. By the time trebs arrive it is probably too late to attack without macemen (I'm not sure you actually need iron for them though). You will get musketmen reasonably early.
3, 4 & 5) If you haven't found iron by this time then your empire is too small. I can't think of another wonder but don't have BTS. I believe you need them for railroads still (you do in Warlords).

The main thing to note is if your neighbour has iron grab it quick , if the don't then they will have exactly the same problems (another reason to grab it).

 

[madscientist]

Horses+copper save the day.



Important beeline: Gunpowder. With musketmen + trebuchets (+ drafting, if possible) you can dominate the medieval age and take any iron you need (for cannons, mostly at that point)

That's what i was thinking. I am pretty ahead of brennus in tech and could have muskets before I see a celtic knight. I also have the great wall, statue of zues and a settled great spy which should get Brennus to think twice about any mischief. I was also going to try and spam jewish missionaries into his lands for recon and possible coversion.

And I forgot that cannons need iron.

 

[madscientist]

Edit: I was well and truly beaten to the post

You don't have to sit back and defend (unless you want to)

1) Lack of Swordsmen is a problem. Horse archers are useful for defending your borders but not as effective against cities, so axes may be needed. Sounds like you have left it too late for an effective rush so you may want to wait for catapults.
2) In the early stage cats and axemen should be able to take cities. Your problem will be defending (no knights to prevent pillaging) so I would go on the offensive. By the time trebs arrive it is probably too late to attack without macemen (I'm not sure you actually need iron for them though). You will get musketmen reasonably early.
3, 4 & 5) If you haven't found iron by this time then your empire is too small. I can't think of another wonder but don't have BTS. I believe you need them for railroads still (you do in Warlords).

The main thing to note is if your neighbour has iron grab it quick , if the don't then they will have exactly the same problems (another reason to grab it).

Brennus is too far away to do anything about militarily. it's arround 1 AD and only now are we even somewhat close in borders, and there is a vast amount of land to the east (Brennus is to my west).

Another question, I have ALOT of mined hills, what ar ethe chances of popping iron (or anything) from a mined hill. Ar ethere any percentages listed anywhere.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Another question, I have ALOT of mined hills, what ar ethe chances of popping iron (or anything) from a mined hill. Ar ethere any percentages listed anywhere.

1/10000 per known resource per turn that the mine is worked. So in early years, when you have discovered only Iron and Bronze, it's 5/10000 (actually, a touch lower than that, because you can't discover two resources at the same time).

Disclaimer: unless they changed it in BTS.

 

[frob2900]

1/10000 per known resource per turn that the mine is worked. So in early years, when you have discovered only Iron and Bronze, it's 5/10000

So the 5/10000 is from gems, silver, gold, iron and bronze?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

So the 5/10000 is from gems, silver, gold, iron and bronze?

copper, yes (the tech is bronze, the resource is copper).

 

[uppi]

The chance for popping specifically iron is very close to 1/10000, or 0.01%

So the chance to pop at least one iron can be calculated by:

1 - (0.9999)^(m*t)

m: Number of Mines worked
t: Number of turns.

So if you work 10 mines for 100 turns, the chance to pop at least one iron is 9.52%.
(A more accurate calculation that provides for the chance of pre-coal resources popping first, yields 9.51%)

This is not scaled with gamespeed. So if you play marathon the chances of an iron eventually popping are quite high (over 60%, if you work 10 mines). On quick you have to be lucky, though

 

[madscientist]

The chance for popping specifically iron is very close to 1/10000, or 0.01%

So the chance to pop at least one iron can be calculated by:

1 - (0.9999)^(m*t)

m: Number of Mines worked
t: Number of turns.

So if you work 10 mines for 100 turns, the chance to pop at least one iron is 9.52%.
(A more accurate calculation that provides for the chance of pre-coal resources popping first, yields 9.51%)

This is not scaled with gamespeed. So if you play marathon the chances of an iron eventually popping are quite high (over 60%, if you work 10 mines). On quick you have to be lucky, though

Hmmm. I am at marathon speed and have about 10 mines already so I have a greater than 60% chance of popping iron by the time I get to Steel for the iron works which I really by biggest concern.

 

[frob2900]

Hmmm. I am at marathon speed and have about 10 mines already so I have a greater than 60% chance of popping iron by the time I get to Steel for the iron works which I really by biggest concern.

(In case no one has noticed a made an exact calculation on this in another thread )

 

[madscientist]

(In case no one has noticed a made an exact calculation on this in another thread )

I saw, I just noticed the 60% chance which a simple number compared to probablility curves.

 

[jason77024]

To make a quick jog back to the thread topic...

What are the consequences of this and how can I defend (I have copper and horses)

Do you have any ivory? Stacks of elephants and axes will defend for rather a while. And you'll get Construction way way before Gunpowder.

 

[Welnic]

One thing that you might miss after you think you aren't going to have any more problems, you can't build frigates or cannons. Once I get to the gunpowder units I tend to forget that anything still needs iron. I usually remember cannons need iron, but I have definitely been shocked that I couldn't build frigates.

 

[madscientist]

Well, I found iron last night in one of the few dark unexplored areas of my continent. Was actually a good locationwith 2 food sources, fresh water, plenty of grasslands for cottaging. I am glad I found it. No frigates would have been definitely the biggest problem, as I was on a smaller continent with a friendly Brennus and would need a large fleet to defent the shores. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Coast]

I've actually just started a game like this. The nearest thing to strategic resources I have inside my culture boundaries are elephants, horses, and stone, and as I'm just using chariots and archers now I'm finding the incoming barbarian swordsmen really annoying.

I really dunno what to do until I get construction for the elephants. I'm trying for a peaceful game, so I'm trying to culture out an iron resource that's one into a small rival civ's boundaries.

But hey, I've promised myself I'm going to stick with more disasters longer to see what I can do!

 

[Meanness]

I'm not the best Civ player (by far), but lack of iron is usually the leading reason why I lose. Without pikes or elephants, it is difficult and costly to stop knights from pillaging. It also means you can forget about using any sea-based food tiles while you're at war (until Combustion).

I build a stack of siege + longbows and pray I can quickly take iron from a nearby neighbor. If that doesn't work, I'm usually toast.

 

[dankok8]

hmm .. having no iron would certainly suck but if you have ivory, you can still launch an attack even in the medieval age with war elephants. I tend to have more problems with no horses, however. My recent game with Darius I where I planned an immortal rush went crappy because of no horses. My closest neighbour was Monty with a huge army (~mine ) even early on (aggressive AI) and he had the only source of horses in his capital's fat cross.

 

[slobberinbear]

My general reaction to "no iron" is to work on diplomatic measures with my neighbors and try to beeline other non-iron techs for my military. Longbows, in particular, are very handy for defense and help raise your power rating to scare off the AI.

"No iron" is a bit of a game-ender, though, if you're Rome and were looking forward to a little classical conquest. I haven't done it personally, but I have no problem with entering the world-builder and inserting an iron resource in there to keep the game going.