ravensfire said:
Look at the evidence, Strider, the DG is not going stale. It is. We have fewer and fewer players each time because we do the same old thing, over and over. Good grief - we didn't have a President elected in the last term of the game. Why - because it was boring.
What the hell? The DG is not going stale, it is? Your actually wrong about the fewer and fewer players thing. We had the most players in DG2, and then it dropped off in DG3. Why is that? Well, one thing happened about that time. Donovan_Zoi has been preaching this for awhile now, and well I'm going to listen to him on it. Shaitan left the game, that's what happened. We are not losing partcipation because it's boring, how the hell will it be boring to someone who has never played a demogame before?
We are losing partcipation because we lack strong leadership.
ravensfire said:
Incorrect. Newer players have never gained fame by governing far-off provinces because there is nothing to do in corrupt, incapable provinces that are ignored. They gain it as you correctly pointed out the second time in posting insightful comments. With 5 cities, discussions are more focused, providing more opportunities for new players to contribute. They aren't overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the game.
Wrong, taking that my second comment was the only right one. Vetern players are sure to contribute 'insightful comments' faster (and with more knowaledge of the demogame and current situtation) than newer players. If we make the scope of the game smaller, than we tighten there ability to contribute.
ravensfire said:
Incorrect. Examine the number of contested elections - that along invalidates your point.
People want to have fun, to contribute. That takes time, and the monstrously large provinces of the past SG killed that. 1 city, 5 positions gives everyone, not just those with hours of free time per day, a chance to contribute, to feel a part of the game.
The president is not a powerful poistion, actually the most powerful ones (Judiciary) were contested and filled. The more powerful departments were also contested. Other than that, your just saying what you
think it will do.
ravensfire said:
Some of the stories, indeed, probably THE best thread took place in ONE city. I refer you to Cyc's thread. Easily, the best thread I've seen. For an story drivern RPG to maintain viabilty, it must have a solid, defined base. 5 cities, all competeting against each other while still fighting the world as a whole is an appealing base to work from.
To who? If you don't remember, all of the people who have made these powerful RPG's are no longer here. It takes more than an appealing base, it takes creative talent to make something that people like. Cyc is gone, Ehecatl is gone, Veera is gone, Falcon is gone, who do you want to make these RPG's? If you want me to do it, your doing it the wrong way.
ravensfire said:
Incorrect. Indeed, you prove yourself wrong with one of your own points - "No Experience". A 5CC game will move faster by the simple reason that we will be able to play more turns per sitting than we could with a larger civ. The massive time demands large civs put on the designated player simply aren't there. There aren't the massive numbers of workers. You don't micromanage 50 cities each turn.
You still have to plan things out, things will happen faster inside of the game. Turnchats will also likely be shorter, but I doubt we will play more turns. The game will move just as fast as it always did.
ravensfire said:
Strider, you're wrong about the 5CC. Part of it is that you don't like change. You'd rather see something stagnate, wither and die instead of trying something new, something to invigorate what's old.
I don't like change? Yet, here I sit, attempting to change everything. The forum organization, the constitution, and the game.
ravensfire said:
You state that an Epic game will have "lots of roleplaying". Where has it been? The evidence along proves that statement false. It hasn't happened in quite some time - why would it come back now?
I am thinking about the future of this game. I'm looking to a bright future, where we try new thing to BE the first to make it work. A future where we are willing to take a risk, to create the next big thing.
Where's your vision? The past isn't good enough, Strider. Look at the where we're going, and recognize that the road isn't getting better.
It's been stomped and destroyed the pass couple of games. Don't worry however, as I said in my above post, I've not sat idly and watch it get destroyed. I have a pretty good plan to increase Roleplaying in an Epic game.
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You weren't far off on the contribute part you said above, but my plan was to allow them plenty of oppertunity to contribute to Roleplaying. First thing we need to do is increase friendly competition, I've yet to send any of these ideas to Daveshack, as I promised, because he hasn't got back to me on some of the other things I've thrown at him.
I actually looked at what was good with Roleplaying in 5cc and stole acouple of things. The roleplaying for a 5cc game will be based mostly on city vs city. Well, I've decided to twist this more into a province vs province standpoint.
Province vs Province will be a much more in-depth experience. Imagine an expedition to be the first to scale the highest tops in the land of Middle-Earth. Maybe even the citizens in a city, fighting to be a part of another province? The possibilities are much less limiting, and it allows for a more in-depth RPG.
Okay, enough about that, and onto how I'm going to do it.
Well, first things first, give citizens who are a part of ??? province more control over a governors instructions and give those who are not part (of the same province) little to no control. I'm still experimenting with ways to do that, so give me alittle more planning time.
Although to make Roleplaying work, the citizens must feel a loyality to the province (something you seem to think will happen automatically with a 5cc). Well, to create more loyality, I just planned on asking (privately) several differant people to join differant provinces and then just stampede "We have the Great Library here,
and a rich Aztec culture. (or things along like that)" I also planned on asking them to start up citizen groups that is devoted to furthering that province, etc. There is much, much more, but I don't really want to say them at this moment.
There are several more things that I plan on doing (or attempting), that have alot to do with Roleplay. I'm a huge RPG fan, anything from video games to pen and paper games. I've spent most of my life playing RPG's (I've memorized the D&D, World of Darkness, and Shadowrun systems). I've been busy for awhile trying to find ways to incorporate some of the best RPG elements into the Demogame.
I'll post them all in there own seperate thread in a few days (has no one noticed the absense of any thread dealing with roleplay?). I just don't have them all done. I'm just asking for alittle bit of trust on this, I'm on a short schedule and I have to get these polls up before I can post my own ideas that can sway them.