Suggestions and Requests

[hnrysml]

In Civ II you could sent one food caravan per city to another city, and I would always use this to create a super capital, which had +1 food yield from every other city, maybe there could be a mechanic similar in concept to this, to represent food from global trade?

 

[1SDANi]

Allowing colonies to send food back to the core would also allow us to shrink Spain and England and have more crowding in Europe. Support!

 

[Tigranes]

I really don't like how civ5 needs special food cargo ships to transfer food from one city to another. Automatic trade is a good thing and we need something along the lines with how some % of trade income becomes hummers when you chose Multilateralism right now. Imagine a trade route between Alexandria and Constantinople, for example. Obviously Constantinople did not feed itself with 3 local seafood sources and 2 sheep. They got all the grain from Egypt which was the breadbasket of Empire. If we make that 25% of trade route becomes food -- for any city -- cities with larger commerce gains (because of size, buildings, etc) -- those cities will get more food from routes. Very realistic I would say. But this has to work for any civic and every city. Quite simple -- 1/4 of trade between any two cities is actually food barter.

 

[1SDANi]

I really don't like how civ5 needs special food cargo ships to transfer food from one city to another. Automatic trade is a good thing and we need something along the lines with how some % of trade income becomes hummers when you chose Multilateralism right now. Imagine a trade route between Alexandria and Constantinople, for example. Obviously Constantinople did not feed itself with 3 local seafood sources and 2 sheep. They got all the grain from Egypt which was the breadbasket of Empire. If we make that 25% of trade route becomes food -- for any city -- cities with larger commerce gains (because of size, buildings, etc) -- those cities will get more food from routes. Very realistic I would say. But this has to work for any civic and every city. Quite simple -- 1/4 of trade between any two cities is actually food barter.

Yeah, routes really should be able to transfer Production, Science, and ESPECIALLY CULTURE. Seriously, so much of the world is influenced by Hollywood movies alone. Obligatory reminder about resources increasing commerce, obligatory reminder about great works being implemented.

ALSO WHY I FUND PRODUCTION? Why can't I convert commerce to Production (giving better funding to state projects) in order to increase my %Production? I know Production isn't a commerce type like Science is, but the Production slider should be a thing. Ditto for Food, Military Success rates, Stability, the culture slider really should give happiness without requiring buildings, and why can't I set my sliders to increase the rate of development of the next Rhyes and Fall update?

 

[Leoreth]

programming machine broke

 

[1SDANi]

programming machine broke

Oh my. Hopefully you can fix it/get a new one soon. For your sake and ours.

Mostly ours.

 

[Tigranes]

Yeah, routes really should be able to transfer Production, Science, and ESPECIALLY CULTURE. Seriously, so much of the world is influenced by Hollywood movies alone. Obligatory reminder about resources increasing commerce, obligatory reminder about great works being implemented.

ALSO WHY I FUND PRODUCTION? Why can't I convert commerce to Production (giving better funding to state projects) in order to increase my %Production? I know Production isn't a commerce type like Science is, but the Production slider should be a thing. Ditto for Food, Military Success rates, Stability, the culture slider really should give happiness without requiring buildings, and why can't I set my sliders to increase the rate of development of the next Rhyes and Fall update?

Well, I would no go too much overboard with sliders and routes though. This is how I see it. Every city has some local ability. They can do some projects at their pace, for example train a Worker or build a Library with local effort. As a federal Government you can speed up that process with Public Welfare civic -- basically pay everyone around to make everything done in one turn (which is at minimum 1 year or 6 month).

Also, just because Saudis generate a lot of commerce from Oil or Confederate States with Cotton -- it does not automatically translate into heavy industry. So there is no slider for hummers and it is a good thing. You need to actually develop your industries.

I have seen mods were trade brings in new ethnicity into your city and foreign culture. Not very crazy about it, and this is why. Remember the whole point of automated trade route is to be automated. If game chose with whom I trade -- I don't want to micromanage effects of the cause I am not micromanaging in a first place!

 

[1SDANi]

Well, I would no go too much overboard with sliders and routes though. This is how I see it. Every city has some local ability. They can do some projects at their pace, for example train a Worker or build a Library with local effort. As a federal Government you can speed up that process with Public Welfare civic -- basically pay everyone around to make everything done in one turn (which is at minimum 1 year or 6 month).

Also, just because Saudis generate a lot of commerce from Oil or Confederate States with Cotton -- it does not automatically translate into heavy industry. So there is no slider for hummers and it is a good thing. You need to actually develop your industries.

I have seen mods were trade brings in new ethnicity into your city and foreign culture. Not very crazy about it, and this is why. Remember the whole point of automated trade route is to be automated. If game chose with whom I trade -- I don't want to micromanage effects of the cause I am not micromanaging in a first place!

When I say sliders for hammers I'm more of thinking of subsidizing the industries that produce hammers, thus causing a % increase in production. Remember, sliders give %modifiers to yields, they don't give yields outright. If the case was the latter I would certainly agree with your argument, but since the reality is the former I would argue that it makes perfect historical and economic sense.

As for the whole foreign culture thing, my thought is that it would make players have to pick and choose their OP Agreements much more than the current "OB FOR EVERYONE!" If you OB'd with America you'd gain a huge amount of science, but you'd have to deal with the culture giant that is Hollywood. Then again, you could go for OB with Britain for their good gold and science outputs without having to deal with a flood of foreign culture.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Then again, you could go for OB with Britain for their good gold and science outputs without having to deal with a flood of foreign culture.

Because as we all know, no cultural influence whatsoever has come from Great Britain.

 

[Leoreth]

True, you'd have to deal with terrible Sherlock episodes every once in a while.

 

[1SDANi]

Because as we all know, no cultural influence whatsoever has come from Great Britain.

When I said flood I was talking about the great flood of American culture, Britain still has a huge cultural influence, but I doubt it's at the same absurd level as America.

Plus I couldn't think of any other primarily commerce based nations. Japan is industrial science and culture, China is industrial food and science, India is food and commerce also, but I'm not sure if Bollywood is a regional powerhouse like Hollywood is or not so I went with the science and commerce Britain instead.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

When I say sliders for hammers I'm more of thinking of subsidizing the industries that produce hammers, thus causing a % increase in production. Remember, sliders give %modifiers to yields, they don't give yields outright. If the case was the latter I would certainly agree with your argument, but since the reality is the former I would argue that it makes perfect historical and economic sense.

Actually, sliders modify where your commerce goes.

So, what would you be directing towards production?

 

[1SDANi]

Actually, sliders modify where your commerce goes.

So, what would you be directing towards production?

Really? TIL I guess. I guess it would kid of still work to say that government subsidies and funding represents the sliders, but then there's the question of whether you can increase prosuction by throwing money at your industries.

I guess it might be argued that since civ is so abstracted, the production slider could represent the purchasing of materials from the global market instead of procuring or producing them locally like with Mines, Lumbermills, Quarries, Watermills, Engineers and Workshops.

Basically instead of producing the materials for your builds you buy them from local or foreign orginizations.

Then again that might not fit the theme of the slider bar that Science, Commerce, Culture, and Espionage set up.

Perhaps the production, food, and combat sliders could be set up to give %increases instead to reflect subsidies vs the current system's funding. Or we could just let players buy yields from each other's cities.

 

[Leoreth]

There's the gold hurry button, you know.

 

[1SDANi]

There's the gold hurry button, you know.

Yeah I know, but you can't hurry food can you? The original post was talking about boosting the % of food, combat, AND production, and there's not the gold hurry food button, you know.

 

[Leon Michiel]

Don't corporations represent world trade in that sense? Including food, production, culture, health benefits, etc.

And the arguement could be made that the redistribution civic represents food imports by Rome and Constantinople, so there's that.

I'd also like to add that I don't see ctivilization as a game where you 'play' only the state, but indeed the whole of a civilization. Including private enterprise, etc.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

And the arguement could be made that the redistribution civic represents food imports by Rome and Constantinople, so there's that.

But wouldn't Merchant Trade be more fitting for Rome?

This begs the question, who actually did the grain importing from Egypt? Private merchants or public bureaucrats? I genuinely do not know.

 

[catacau]

But wouldn't Merchant Trade be more fitting for Rome?

This begs the question, who actually did the grain importing from Egypt? Private merchants or public bureaucrats? I genuinely do not know.

By reading the wikipedia page Cura Annonae, i got the impression that was private merchants but it was heavily subsidized by the government.

"Throughout most of the Republican era, the care of the grain supply (cura annonae) was part of the aedile's duties... grants of citizenship and exemption from certain duties, were extended to ship-owners who signed contracts to transport grain to the city."

 

[Leoreth]

The state bought the grain in Rome and distributed it to the people, but I doubt they organised the transport from Sicily/Africa/Egypt to Rome.

 

[Leon Michiel]

To put it in Civ IV terms,

merchant trade existed but the Roman Empire was defined by its redistribution to Rome, particularly of grain.

There was a bureaucracy which regulated the price of grain during republican and imperial times. It did run on grain merchants which ferried grain, but the grain trade was more politics than free enterprise. Ruling families and later emperors would curry the favour of the plebs and maintain order by free grain distribution. And, of course, funding games and religious festivals. Hence the whole bread & grain thing.

In my understanding, the Roman Republic and later Empire was economically hugely centralised through its conquests.

It's been a long time since I did any reading on the Romans though so most of this is from memory and I can't share any sources. I did visit Baelo Claudia in southern Spain early last year. That really drove home how centralised the Roman empire must have been. It was basicially a colony, architecturally a little copy of Rome, with a single industry of luxury goods for export to the Roman elite. The natives in the surrounding countryside lived a mostly agricultural or pastoral livestyle in small communities. The contrast between Baelo Claudia and local civilization must have been huge.