Suggestions and Requests

[Dracosolon]

What if the "one less Temple required per Cathedral" effect is given to the Clergy civic? I think it could be synergetic with a lot of medieval and early modern states that built a lot of religious architecture. Can be given to both Clergy and Theocracy, if also possible.

China: 2 Confucianism, 2 Taoism
Ethiopia: 1 Orthodoxy
Korea: 1 Buddhism, 1 Confucianism
Poland: 3 out of the three Christian religions
Mughals: 3 Islam
Mexico: 3 of your state religion

One possibility would be to restrict it to Catholic civs by having it require an Apostolic Palace resolution. That way the change is restricted to Poland (1 less temple, still has to possess 4 cities) and Mexico (the UHV could be amended to 4 Catholic Cathedrals specifically, though that would require Mexico to always start Catholic, and also requires 1 more Cathedral in a limited timeframe. Or the Apostolic Palace effect could obsolete/not apply to the New World).

Thinking back to this discussion, I've tought of an alternative: Why not allow state religion cathedrals with one less temple if you're on the same continent/subcontinent as the shrine? By this I mean the categories below, excluding Africa, Asia and America:

lEurope = [rBritain, rIberia, rItaly, rBalkans, rEurope, rScandinavia, rRussia]
lMiddleEast = [rAnatolia, rMesopotamia, rArabia, rPersia, rCentralAsia]
lIndia = [rIndia, rDeccan]
lEastAsia = [rIndochina, rIndonesia, rChina, rKorea, rJapan, rManchuria, rTibet]
lNorthAfrica = [rEgypt, rMaghreb]
lSubSaharanAfrica = [rEthiopia, rSouthAfrica, rWestAfrica]
lSouthAmerica = [rBrazil, rArgentina, rPeru, rColombia]
lCentralAmerica = [rCaribbean, rMesoamerica]
lNorthAmerica = [rCanada, rAlaska, rUnitedStates]
lOceania = [rAustralia, rOceania]

lAfrica = lNorthAfrica + lSubSaharanAfrica
lAsia = lMiddleEast + lIndia + lEastAsia
lAmerica = lSouthAmerica + lCentralAmerica + lNorthAmerica

This would effectively extend it to other religions than just Catholicism and be a bit fairer. Some UHVs would be affected though:

Poland: one less Catholic or Protestant church depending on state religion (I'm assuming that the Cathedral is destroyed if the requirements are no longer met so you can't just switch state religion - alternatively, that's one less Catholic and one less Protestant church), still needs four Orthodox ones.
Mexico: unaffected.
Ethiopia: unaffected unless a city in Africa is chosen as Holy City (which could be prevented if the Ethiopia player is human I guess?).
Mughals: affected if the requirement is simply continent instead of subcontinent.
Korea: affected for Confucianism, same deal as Mughals for Buddhism. If the "Cathedral is destroyed if its conditions are no longer met" rule applies, then that's just one less temple.
China: affected, but that means the Chinese player has to spend two on shrines instead of Golden Ages - and with the new map, they'll probably need a great number of city to cover their historical territory anyway.

Note that some of these require an AI to do you the courtesy of building the shrine for you, which means you might still want to plan for one more temple rather than rely on luck.

 

[psyblade]

Building on the idea of holy sites, what if each religion has 5 holy sites. These are pre-placed (or spawn once the city on that tile or one within 2 tiles is built).
This Holy Site building cannot be constructed, but if you spend a Great Person, it upgrades it into a Pilgrimage site.
Pilgrimage Sites give opinion bonuses to others of the same religion (+1 with one site, +2 with 3 or more), increases religious spread to counter natural decay, increases the city’s trade routes’ effectiveness, and gives a civ-wide bonus. At 3 shrines or more, all non-aerial military units gain the blessed promotion, increasing healing rate and +1 first strike bonus.
Some cities are holy sites for multiple religions, however, and owning a holy site of another religion but not also having open borders + defensive alliance imposes an opinion penalty. The opinion penalty is applied regardless of OB/DA if running theocracy. If a hostile unit of another religion spends at least 1 turn within 1 square of its (occupied) religious site, they gain the blessed promotion as well, representing religious fervor to take the city. All such instances are removed if the above conditions (owning 3 religious sites or being within 1 square of an occupied site within the last round) are not fulfilled. AI would prioritize its own pilgrimage sites/religious sites, and be able to demand them as if they are ‘liberated’ cities.

This idea has several purposes:
1. It could add an extra mini game for religious plays,
2. It can serve as a use of excess great prophets,
3. It could help push the AI to launch more religious wars that target pilgrimage sites, especially if it is tied to AI weight.

 

[Dracosolon]

Happy new year everybody. Here's to the next turn.

Minor suggestion - would it be possible, as part of a civ's birth, to set a minimal population threshold in flipped cities, so as to reduce randomness at start? Since Independent cities have their units expelled, it's not uncommon for an AI or Barbarians to opportunistically attack one and reduce its population.

In addition to that - what is the reason for Independent units being expelled from soon-to-be "rise of civ" territory? I understand that Barbarians might need it so as to not reduce their menace, but Independents frequently have nowhere to go (such as the Sana'a archer on the 600 AD start, which pretty consistently ends up on the Suqutra island all by its lonesome). Couldn't Independent units either be destroyed, or if that's undesirable, relocated to their nearest city?

 

[Alexandre92]

Hi all and happy new year.
Completing Chateau Frontenac looks unreal for Canada. They should start with tech, that will allow them to start building it as soon as they start, I guess.
(Latest downloadable version / Monarch / Marathon)

And also there is some buggy notification early in the game for Canada.

 

[Ballazic]

Hi all and happy new year.
Completing Chateau Frontenac looks unreal for Canada. They should start with tech, that will allow them to start building it as soon as they start, I guess.
(Latest downloadable version / Monarch / Marathon)

And also there is some buggy notification early in the game for Canada.

Not to mention even if you build it after you get the tech, its not going to help you complete the objective to build a rail line across the continent. Whereas if you can start from the beginning, it becomes a choice. Montreal can either pump out settlers and/or workers or build the wonder.

 

[Dominus the Mentat]

Kongo’s pagan religion should be Bukongo instead of Yoruba. Yoruba is an ethnic group of west africa which have its proper language and culture, including its own traditional faith called Isese. The kongo people are a bantu ethnic group located in central africa which have its own traditions and religious beliefs before the europeans have show up with christianity. Their traditional religion is called Bukongo, which is wrongly represented in the game as Yoruba. The faith bases itself on a complex animistic system and a pantheon of various gods and spirits. Humans may manipulate the universe through the use of charms called Nkisi, which are spirits or an object that a spirit inhabits. Most of the religious practices happens in sacred altars or shrines called Kiteki.
My suggestion is to change Kongo’s pagan religion name to Bukongo, the temple to Bukongo Kiteki and its symbol to the kongo cosmogram (which is the same symbol of Kongo's banner in the game).
The temple building graphics could continue the same, since it represents well how the shrines are described in pictures or images made by the europeans.
I would also suggest to change its URV goal to something related to culture, like: have an average culture of X or have X culture, instead of resource control. This would represent the Bukongo creation of spiritual objects (Nkisi) to protect and give blessings or give curses and harm people.
I also can help with the civilopedia text about the traditions, religious beliefs and their shrines if the suggestion is accepted.

 

[Hospitaller]

Hi all and happy new year.
Completing Chateau Frontenac looks unreal for Canada. They should start with tech, that will allow them to start building it as soon as they start, I guess.
(Latest downloadable version / Monarch / Marathon)

And also there is some buggy notification early in the game for Canada.

The dialog box is the auto-fail for one of the Secular UHVs.

 

[Dracosolon]

Actual suggestion: There are a lot of wonders and civics that improve specialists' output - would it be possible to list them on the various specialists' Pedia page?

Random musing: It's a very minor thing but I find it ironic that post-1700 AD France has little use for Artists and in Paris when that period is really only the start of when the city became an enduring cultural icon. The Eiffel Tower's +50% in particular does very little - I guess you could build it outside of Paris and go for a Culture Victory since you already have one Legendary city, but that's hardly historical. I feel like a more appropriate effect would involve still rewarding you for working Artists and/or spawning Great Artists. Idea for new Eiffel Tower effect: +1 and/or +1 on Artists, Great Artists count twice for Golden Age requirements (still a focus on Golden Ages but more Artist centered).

e: Apparently the effects on specialists are listed on the Pedia page for those that currently apply, which I didn't know (I have the Sistine Chapel and every Specialist is listed as having +2 ). Still, something more permanent is what I'm talking about.

 

[psyblade]

One nice idea I loved from Fall from Heaven is tougher barbarians and wandering monsters, as well as lairs and improved village results.
How valid is it to have barbarian lairs (separatists, terrorists, pre-spawn indy soldiers) appear in areas of low stability or in independent areas to add a bit more randomness and a chance of good or bad events?

 

[Dominus the Mentat]

I would like to suggest that Spain have the dynamic name "Kingdom of Asturias" during medieval age and the capital is Oviedo. The "Kingdom of Castile" dynamic name would be better related to Madrid as capital.
Also, the civilization should begin with Elective as civic, since the asturian kings were elected by the nobility and the historical context that the spanish civilization begins in the game is the ascension of the asturian resistance against the umayyad invasion on the Iberian peninsula.
It could be nice too have the "Asturian Empire" dynamic name if Spain can't have conquered andalusia before Renaissance and already have other territorial possessions outside the peninsula (just like the "Castilian Empire" dynamic name works). That would make the game more open to alternative history.

 

[LukeAtmey]

Actual suggestion: There are a lot of wonders and civics that improve specialists' output - would it be possible to list them on the various specialists' Pedia page?

Random musing: It's a very minor thing but I find it ironic that post-1700 AD France has little use for Artists and in Paris when that period is really only the start of when the city became an enduring cultural icon. The Eiffel Tower's +50% in particular does very little - I guess you could build it outside of Paris and go for a Culture Victory since you already have one Legendary city, but that's hardly historical. I feel like a more appropriate effect would involve still rewarding you for working Artists and/or spawning Great Artists. Idea for new Eiffel Tower effect: +1 and/or +1 on Artists, Great Artists count twice for Golden Age requirements (still a focus on Golden Ages but more Artist centered).

e: Apparently the effects on specialists are listed on the Pedia page for those that currently apply, which I didn't know (I have the Sistine Chapel and every Specialist is listed as having +2 ). Still, something more permanent is what I'm talking about.

This makes sense, it would also help the lack of production in France's (should they build it ofc) core area, though I think Sagrada Familia already has the extra for Artists effect. I'd still support something like this.

 

[Dracosolon]

Yes, I considered that it's a bit similar to the Sagrada Familia effect but figured that wasn't that big of a deal if the two wonders have other effects besides that.

Other possible effects:
-Artists can rush buildings like Great Engineers,
-Some sort of effect that applies to Artists per the city's level (to not make Eiffel Tower Artists too OP everywhere) - could be generic (useful but kind of defeat the point of spawning Great Artists), or a fraction of or (like +0,33 of one or the other on Artists per level, meaning a Legendary city would have +2) - would avoid making Artists in general too OP, but might achieve the opposite and make the Eiffel Tower too niche,
-A powerful effect but as a counterpart the Tower's construction would require a certain level as prerequisite.

On the lack of in the French core (which I usually adress by building Lumbermills in the Medieval era then switching to Watermills once those start outclassing them, while building Cottages everywhere else), I wonder if that couldn't be an incentive for late game France to switch to the currently underwhelming Public Welfare civic. The Eiffel Tower effect could then grant from Artists, that would then be reconverted into by rush-buying. That sounds like a somewhat clumsy way of adressing two different issues though - Public Welfare should probably just be a bit boosted for everyone.

 

[Vulpeo]

A repost from another thread and in a resized format.

Would like to explain my main and only complaint about the stability mechanic in DoC. I absolutely love the gamemode and especially how the stability mechanic works here compared to the vanilla RFC but there's just one, one single thing that I don't like not just only in stability mechanic but in DoC as a whole which is how unforgiveable it is. You're getting close to one of your well deserved UHV, almost being there and then you're being slapped with the collapsing stability because of recession that you need lots of time to fix by building the improvements and all that or because of overextensions due to which you're being forced to abandon your hopes for reaching an UHV goal. It's a very interesting challenge when you have to always be very careful with your decisions to pevent the collapsing stability from happening but when it happens it just absolutely wrecks you. In vanilla RFC the collapsing stability results firstly with a few cities becoming independent and then all of your cities turning into the independent ones besides just the capital and a few other cities joining the neighboring civilizations, leaving you with just only the capital and a chance to rebuild yourself from ashes by retaking the cities that turned into independent ones. In DoC, it is just an instant and absolutely unforgiveable collapse of everything at once with not even a smallest chance to recover yourself.

I saw in the 2018 thread related to this when you said that right now it's very hard to implement but how comes it actually is when this civil war mechanic existed in vanilla RFC with all the cities besides the capital turning independent and then suddenly being impossible to implement in DoC? Is there something that I might not be understanding in the coding? Because it is just weird when there was a feature that existed in vanilla but suddenly it becomes "impossible to implement" in a modmod which was originally built upon the said vanilla RFC. I just really hope that this issue would eventually be considered and fixed, because aside from just this one single thing I absolutely love and enjoy DoC.

 

[Dracosolon]

More musings on an existing wonder:

I've seen various suggestions to include monastic or specifically crusading orders in the game. I don't really have an opinion on if they deserve that level of complex representation, but one thing I've been thinking about is that, since the Hospitallers are already represented by the Krak des Chevaliers wonder, a more complex approach could start with it.

Personally I never build the Krak except as Spain (thanks to its Citadel UB and easy access to a city with Islam in it). I consider its effects a bit too niche for the effort involved. Historically building it in the Levant would be an ever bigger expenditure considering the difficulty of conquering and holding a city there.

But what if the Krak had its requirements increased (by adding to State Religion catholicism and Islam presence a requirement of desert in the city's vicinity so that you can't build it in Spain and have to invade a Muslim civ) in exchange for a stronger, instantaneous effect on completion (since in the spirit of the Crusades you wouldn't hold the city for very long - the Krak shouldn't be a long term investment). This would further encourage European players to actually do some crusading, either in the Levant or against a softer target like the Moors or a respawned Egypt.

Thematically appropriate instantaneous effects I could think of would be:

-Instant troops from state religion buildings,
-Instant from state religion buildings (admittedly wealth is more associated with the Templars than with the Hospitallers though),
-Great general threshold reset,
-Generic threshold partially reset (representing military or religious achievements but also cultural, commercial or scientific exchanges),
-Free, permanent religious buildings in every city (as in, they don't disappear when the wonder obsolete like other free buildings do).

 

[Dracosolon]

As it is how you interact with Independent civs is extremely limited (justifiably so, they're not like city-states in later games). It could be a neat thing to receive some small bonus in your interactions with them depending on your Territory civic:

-Sovereignty, Conquest: Nothing.
-Tributaries: +1 from neighboring Independent cities.
-Isolationism: Faster peace following a declaration of war.
-Colonialism: No city unrest when conquering Independent, Barbarian or Native civs.
-Nationhood: Faster spread on Independent tiles.
-Multilateralism: Open Borders with both Independent civs, additional trade route yield with Independent cities.

 

[LukeAtmey]

Suggestions for Diplomatic Victory:

I'd like to see the push for Diplomatic Victory to include actual efforts and work while leading the UN which slowly help you edge towards a Diplomatic win instead of merely a single vote that could (in theory) happen as soon as the organization is founded. I'd like to think that other civs would take into consideration your efforts in the UN when deciding whether you'd make a suitable world leader. So here's some suggestions:

Whenever you manage to push a resolution in UN that a particular civilization likes, their disposition towards you would increase (and the likelihood they would vote you for Diplomatic Victory). So in this new model both disposition towards you as well as the resolutions you've manged to push forward would have an effect on whether you get voted for Diplomatic win or not. For example, managing to push through a civilization's favorite civic as a global civic would improve your relations with said civilizations. Other such decisions I quickly thought of to affect relations would be:
-Using UN to end a war against a particular civilization (Unless said civilization votes No in which case you get a penalty)
-Freeing a civilization from foreign occupation (Huge relations boost with the newly freed civilization and maybe a small relations penalty for your relations with the civ that lost territory)
-Banning Nukes (disposition boost for every other civ besides the one's running Totalitarianism or having the Aggressive leader trait)
-Passing the Free Trade routes resolution would increase your relations with civs that have Free Enterprise as favorite civic

 

[FraggleJock]

Actual suggestion: There are a lot of wonders and civics that improve specialists' output - would it be possible to list them on the various specialists' Pedia page?

Random musing: It's a very minor thing but I find it ironic that post-1700 AD France has little use for Artists and in Paris when that period is really only the start of when the city became an enduring cultural icon. The Eiffel Tower's +50% in particular does very little - I guess you could build it outside of Paris and go for a Culture Victory since you already have one Legendary city, but that's hardly historical. I feel like a more appropriate effect would involve still rewarding you for working Artists and/or spawning Great Artists. Idea for new Eiffel Tower effect: +1 and/or +1 on Artists, Great Artists count twice for Golden Age requirements (still a focus on Golden Ages but more Artist centered).

e: Apparently the effects on specialists are listed on the Pedia page for those that currently apply, which I didn't know (I have the Sistine Chapel and every Specialist is listed as having +2 ). Still, something more permanent is what I'm talking about.

eiffel tower doubles the number of artists/settled great artists in the city it's built in to replace it's +50%

 

[Dracosolon]

Well the point is that more is useless to a Legendary city. The Métropolitain wonder already rewards you with for having built so many buildings, I'd like the Eiffel Tower to have something with the same approach but for Artists. Your idea would have the effect of more and more per Specialist bonuses from civics and wonders so it's something though, but then Artists would also further "pollute" the pool if you want other types of Great People, and per Specialist bonuses would have synergy with civics that may not have the right flavor.

I think "Great Artists contribute twice to Golden Age requirements" is a good start because it gives you something to do when one spawns and preserves the current effect of facilitating Golden Ages, but I'd like something for regular Artists as well. I also want the player to be encouraged to build it in an Influential/Legendary city (instead of another city you'd use for a Cultural Victory).

I think I'm hesitating between:

1) Great Artists contribute twice to Golden Age requirements, +0.33 per Culture level on Artists (mirrors the Sagrada Familia's focus on ).
2) Requires Influential Culture level or more. Great Artists contribute twice to Golden Age requirements, +1 and +1 on Artists in the city (more powerful effect).

 

[1SDANi]

I've always kinda liked the idea of a "social event" system that'd pop once enough culture is generated, allowing you to make choices to help address your nation's sources of instability, be it by enacting laws or by engaging in diplomatic actions that wouldn't make sense to place in the trade menu or that'd be too easy for players to abuse. Said laws would be in a "reforms" tab of the civics page, and would only exist for as long as you still have the civic that they required to be enacted.

 

[Dracosolon]

Random ideas on China:

UP - Mandate of Heaven: Reaching a new era grants a temporary maintenance/upkeep bonus.
Alternatively, for more of a challenge: Being first to reach a new era grants a temporary maintenance/upkeep bonus (Though this might be too self-reinforcing, which is bad for China).
This bonus would be temporary because it would decay by 5% every X turns until going back to 0%.

Reasoning: The current UP is fine (though it's hard to use it to its full potential given how fast you reach your happiness limits), but I've seen many attempts at a Mandate of Heaven-themed UP so I thought I'd try too. The big problem is that this is a concept that mostly has to do with internal conflicts, which aren't really represented in DoC outside of the abstraction of stability. But a chinese stability boost wouldn't be terribly interesting since 1) Human China doesn't have much stability troubles in my experience 2) AI China should have stability troubles and collapse repeatedly and 3) a stability-focused UP doesn't sound that fun for a civ that does very little conquering. If stability is out, maintenance/upkeep is the next most thematically appropriate thing, and it's certainly useful for China. The decaying part I think also hints at the cyclical nature of Chinese history without going overboard with forced collapses, etc.

UHV 3: Start a golden age in four different eras before 1800 AD.

Reasoning: The basic idea is to put more pressure on the player's choices between bulbing techs vs triggering Golden Ages. If the player fails a Golden Age in one of the earlier eras (Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance), they'll have to scramble to reach Industrial before 1800 AD, which seems like a nice alternate history goal and would make the post UHV 1 & 2 game more interesting.