merijn_v1
Black Belt
You are right. I forgot that power by itself also provides unhealth.
Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
You are right. I forgot that power by itself also provides unhealth.
Civilopedia: Chokonu
Force44
King
edit: silly me, i misread, you referred you Civilopedia, not Wikipedia.
(moderator, feel free to remove this post if it bothers anyone)
What language?
English Wikipedia has no page Chokonu and the page Chukonu (closest) is about repeating crossbows.
(moderator, feel free to remove this post if it bothers anyone)
What language?
English Wikipedia has no page Chokonu and the page Chukonu (closest) is about repeating crossbows.
Just an idea
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2016
- Messages
- 111
Better nuclear plants? I'm hyped. Removing meltdown chance would make sense. Only nuclear power plant disasters where radiation has spread outside of reactor building are Fukushima and Tsernobyl, neither of which was caused by normal use. Fukushima got hit by an earthquake and a tsunami, and Tsernobyl was experiment on reactor's maximum power output. If nuclear plants need additional drawback unhappiness would make sense, since puplic opinion abaut nuclear power is often quite negative.
Also why there is no disaster event for hydro plants.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
A while ago, we were brainstorming about some more actions for Great People. What about giving them the ability to (permanently) change some civ specific modifiers?
The bonus can be a set amount, or a percentage of the original value. In necessary, the maximum bonus can be capped.
Possibilities:
Artist: Culture
Scientist: ResearchCost, FreeHealth?, GrowthThreshold?
Merchant: InfaltionRate, CitiesMaintenance?
Engineer: WonderCost, BuildingCost
StatesMan: DistanceMaintenance, CitiesMaintenance, CivicUpkeep
General: UnitUpkeep, UnitCost
I couldn't find good ones for the Prophet and Great Spy. (Although I don't think the last one should have one)
The bonus can be a set amount, or a percentage of the original value. In necessary, the maximum bonus can be capped.
Possibilities:
Artist: Culture
Scientist: ResearchCost, FreeHealth?, GrowthThreshold?
Merchant: InfaltionRate, CitiesMaintenance?
Engineer: WonderCost, BuildingCost
StatesMan: DistanceMaintenance, CitiesMaintenance, CivicUpkeep
General: UnitUpkeep, UnitCost
I couldn't find good ones for the Prophet and Great Spy. (Although I don't think the last one should have one)
All gp have two ways to contribute: with a large 1-turn sum or a small flaw. For example, Great engineer can even rush a building (large 1 turn sum) or join city (small continuous flaw). IMO there isn't a possibility of more diversity in gp actions, every action can be analysed in a combination of these two.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I disagree. The whole point of the brainstorm was to get more options than only those 2. While my idea does fit in the small continuous flaw category, but it is still very different than the current join city option.
EDIT:
I found the thread I was looking for. (I wanted to post in that thread originally, but I couldn't find it in the first place)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=544041
Alternative effects for these two civics:
Totalitarianism:
*Double statesmen slots
*+1
from intelligence agency, security bureau, court
OR:
*Angry citizents work, but they count for stability purposes.
A totalitarian state requires increased private sector, secret police etc. So increasing the number of statesmen makes sence. The hapiness bonus isn't exactly hapiness, it represents angry citizents who are forced to work.
Central Planning:
*+50% production
*-65% trade routes yield
Trade routes yield represent in the best way private sector. I wanted to give a great boost with a great cost in private sector, and I think I made it.
Totalitarianism:
*Double statesmen slots
*+1
from intelligence agency, security bureau, courtOR:
*Angry citizents work, but they count for stability purposes.
A totalitarian state requires increased private sector, secret police etc. So increasing the number of statesmen makes sence. The hapiness bonus isn't exactly hapiness, it represents angry citizents who are forced to work.
Central Planning:
*+50% production
*-65% trade routes yield
Trade routes yield represent in the best way private sector. I wanted to give a great boost with a great cost in private sector, and I think I made it.
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
That... is absolutely brilliant! Finally a realistic bonus for Totalitarianism that's not related to military or espionage!
Force44
King
Conservative, similar to the Fall from Heaven II mod? (every unhappy citizen still gives a little production (and/or commerce, espionage, science, culture))
Or radical? (angry citizens can do everything an ordinary citizen can do)
Both look interesting.
For the radical path perhaps increase food consumption per unhappy citizen by 1? (both because no more citizens on strike look so good and stability is largely invisable, therefore it being obscured how much of a tightrope you are walking by ignoring unhappiness under totalitarianism without a visible penalty.)
ozqar
King
While playing a game as Greece, I just saw Judaism expand to Athens, removing my pagan temple (without replacing it with a Jewish one - is that still supposed to happen?). However, my empire continues running Pantheon as a civic, and Athens continues building classical wonders. The situation doesn't make much sense in the game, and in real life, Judaism never replaced the Hellenistic religion in Greece.
At a minimum, can we stop the forced conversion of pagan temples to ones of other religions or at least offer the player a pop up asking if he wants the conversion?
Ideally, however, we can be more fair in the representation of religions. Greek polytheism was not less of a religion than the other ones (nor the other ones are less mythology than the Greek one). Can we reconsider the status of the current pagan temple and pantheon and give them a proper place next to the other religions in the game?
At a minimum, can we stop the forced conversion of pagan temples to ones of other religions or at least offer the player a pop up asking if he wants the conversion?
Ideally, however, we can be more fair in the representation of religions. Greek polytheism was not less of a religion than the other ones (nor the other ones are less mythology than the Greek one). Can we reconsider the status of the current pagan temple and pantheon and give them a proper place next to the other religions in the game?
The behavior is intentional, the Pagan Temple is only replaced if the new religion is your state religion. The whole mechanism works this way to discourage staying in Pantheon for the entire game, and to simulate the transition to larger religions.
I have considered elevating Greek polytheism to a proper religion states but ultimately decided against it, making this work would have required multiple extra religions that are mostly bloat to the mod. Pantheon handles these things well in my opinion.
It's worth a thought if it is accurate to have Judaism replace Pagan Temples. Maybe they should remain if the new religion is considered a minority religion in that region of the world.
I have considered elevating Greek polytheism to a proper religion states but ultimately decided against it, making this work would have required multiple extra religions that are mostly bloat to the mod. Pantheon handles these things well in my opinion.
It's worth a thought if it is accurate to have Judaism replace Pagan Temples. Maybe they should remain if the new religion is considered a minority religion in that region of the world.
ozqar
King
I'd like to propose the following map changes, they're mostly about giving more land area to certain civs and to a minor extent to improve the shape of landmasses.
I moved resources to adjacent tiles when their previous location became unavailable due to moving mountains or coastlines. I hope I counted correctly the number of tiles added/removed.
1) The Balkans
One of two regions that I think most needs these changes. Southeastern Europe is tiny in comparison with Western and Northern Europe, and this area has several civs that could use the space, Greeks/Byzantines/Turks, Austrians, Poles, Russians, even the Romans could be benefited.
- I expanded the Balkans west and east, adding two tiles in the Adriatic and four in the Black Sea. The Carpathians were expanded by one peak southwest to better shape the Transylvanian plateau. The Danube was reshaped a little.
- I put hills all along the Adriatic (the Dinaric Alps) and on the southern side of the Danube, and put plains in the Pannonian plain (Hungary) and on the northern side of the Danube. Byzantion/Constantinople/Istanbul moves one tile south.
- Greece loses two land tiles because it's ginormous at the time - the Sparta tile and 1N of Athens. While I appreciate the magnitude of ancient Greek history and why Greece was swollen to give more playing space, these two tiles offer little to the player (unless they move their capital to Corinth, but I don't think that's the point of it). Removing Mt. Olympus compensates for one of these tiles, and I added more island features in the Aegean to compensate for production.
- The one thing I still would like is to expand Anatolia one tile west, but I think that might be too much now.
Net land changes: +6 usable land tiles
2) South East Asia
The other region where I think these changes are most needed. All other East and South Asian regions are way oversized in comparison to SEA at the moment, making the continent look very disproportioned and leaving the Khmer, Thai and Indonesians with a very, very tight space that doesn't give room for much, nor can accommodate the vast populations that have always lived in this region.
- Expanded the Malay Peninsula one tile South (added one tile in total, pushing Sumatra one tile South in turn), Myanmar was also expanded with two tiles on the southern coast. The whole Vietnamese coast was expanded east and the Cambodian coast expanded South, adding in total 7 land tiles in the area. Can't remember if there were any mountains there, but I would suggest to avoid them altogether and use only hills.
- I had to remove Hainan to make room for this, and changed it for an island feature instead. Hainan wasn't really populated until late in the 20th Century, so I don't think it's as relevant as the area in SEA.
- Removed one peak each from Sumatra and Java, to give Indonesia more room, plus added some island features for Indonesia - the Riau and along the Maluku archipelago.
Net land changes: +13 usable land tiles
I would also move the Philippines one tile east, along with the Celebes and Papua (and possible reshape the Philippines, but I didn't get to this). Borneo is tiny compared to real life, and Sumatra could also be a bit bigger and be better in proportion. However, the real problem in Indonesia is lack of production and land for agriculture, part of this could be solved if the rainforests there became more productive and didn't have a food malus (as I was suggesting in a previous thread about ecosystems).
3) China
- Expanded the whole coastline one tile west - removed the Dalian peninsula, it's now just part of the mainland, to fit. Removed one tile from Taiwan - it's now closer to its correct size, but it could still have the two tiles if wanted, if the island moves east as well. Removed Okinawa as an island tile and changed it to an island feature. I didn't spend any time thinking about the exact shape of the country, because I know there's a group of Chinese players who already spent a lot of time redesigning this.
4) Iran
- Shifted the mountains in the center of the territory to the South, to their correct position as the Zagros Mountains. I also added two land tiles on the Persian gulf.
Net land changes: +2 usable land tiles
5) Mexico and Central America
- Removed two land tiles from the southern Pacific coast, but compensated for the land loss removing the three mountains that were around Guatemala - the region is hilly and there are indeed some peaks, but nothing even close to justify having three land tiles wasted as mountains.
- Moved one land tile west in the Gulf of Mexico. Added a land tile in the Gulf of California (in Sinaloa), but compensated expanding the Sierra Madre one tile South. Removed the three peaks in Central Mexico, as with Central America, the region is hilly and has peaks, but nothing to justify using land tiles as mountains, the whole area is very populated in real life.
Now the area looks way better.
Net land changes: +4 land tiles.
A dream request? Could it possible to move Tenochtitlan/Mexico City to the marked tile and to somehow remove sea access from the city? The tile I marked is the correct location of the city, the current one is far too north.
6) Argentina and Chile
- Moved the Patagonia one tile South (removed the ice to make room), I extended the Pampas region in central Argentina with the land gained.
- In Northern Argentina, I removed one tile of the Andes all the way from the copper in Chile to the eastern part of Bolivia. This gives the northern provinces of Argentina more room. The core area of Argentina should also be expanded North, currently it's marked only as Buenos Aires and south of that. To put this into perspective, Central Argentina (which in the map would be the row of Buenos Aires and two rows south) and Northern Argentina (the space north of BA) comprise 80% of the country's territory and 98% of its population in real life.
- Made Chile much more fertile (changed plains to grasslands) and removed a peak to give access to the northern region of the country (although I think this last thing is a scripted change anyway, I saw there were a couple of mountain tiles that had city names). Changed two mountain tiles to hills in the South.
Net land changes: +3 land tiles in Chile, + 7 or 8 in Argentina, +2 or so in Bolivia (not shown in the picture).
I moved resources to adjacent tiles when their previous location became unavailable due to moving mountains or coastlines. I hope I counted correctly the number of tiles added/removed.
1) The Balkans
One of two regions that I think most needs these changes. Southeastern Europe is tiny in comparison with Western and Northern Europe, and this area has several civs that could use the space, Greeks/Byzantines/Turks, Austrians, Poles, Russians, even the Romans could be benefited.
- I expanded the Balkans west and east, adding two tiles in the Adriatic and four in the Black Sea. The Carpathians were expanded by one peak southwest to better shape the Transylvanian plateau. The Danube was reshaped a little.
- I put hills all along the Adriatic (the Dinaric Alps) and on the southern side of the Danube, and put plains in the Pannonian plain (Hungary) and on the northern side of the Danube. Byzantion/Constantinople/Istanbul moves one tile south.
- Greece loses two land tiles because it's ginormous at the time - the Sparta tile and 1N of Athens. While I appreciate the magnitude of ancient Greek history and why Greece was swollen to give more playing space, these two tiles offer little to the player (unless they move their capital to Corinth, but I don't think that's the point of it). Removing Mt. Olympus compensates for one of these tiles, and I added more island features in the Aegean to compensate for production.
- The one thing I still would like is to expand Anatolia one tile west, but I think that might be too much now.
Net land changes: +6 usable land tiles
Spoiler :
2) South East Asia
The other region where I think these changes are most needed. All other East and South Asian regions are way oversized in comparison to SEA at the moment, making the continent look very disproportioned and leaving the Khmer, Thai and Indonesians with a very, very tight space that doesn't give room for much, nor can accommodate the vast populations that have always lived in this region.
- Expanded the Malay Peninsula one tile South (added one tile in total, pushing Sumatra one tile South in turn), Myanmar was also expanded with two tiles on the southern coast. The whole Vietnamese coast was expanded east and the Cambodian coast expanded South, adding in total 7 land tiles in the area. Can't remember if there were any mountains there, but I would suggest to avoid them altogether and use only hills.
- I had to remove Hainan to make room for this, and changed it for an island feature instead. Hainan wasn't really populated until late in the 20th Century, so I don't think it's as relevant as the area in SEA.
- Removed one peak each from Sumatra and Java, to give Indonesia more room, plus added some island features for Indonesia - the Riau and along the Maluku archipelago.
Net land changes: +13 usable land tiles
I would also move the Philippines one tile east, along with the Celebes and Papua (and possible reshape the Philippines, but I didn't get to this). Borneo is tiny compared to real life, and Sumatra could also be a bit bigger and be better in proportion. However, the real problem in Indonesia is lack of production and land for agriculture, part of this could be solved if the rainforests there became more productive and didn't have a food malus (as I was suggesting in a previous thread about ecosystems).
Spoiler :
3) China
- Expanded the whole coastline one tile west - removed the Dalian peninsula, it's now just part of the mainland, to fit. Removed one tile from Taiwan - it's now closer to its correct size, but it could still have the two tiles if wanted, if the island moves east as well. Removed Okinawa as an island tile and changed it to an island feature. I didn't spend any time thinking about the exact shape of the country, because I know there's a group of Chinese players who already spent a lot of time redesigning this.
Spoiler :
4) Iran
- Shifted the mountains in the center of the territory to the South, to their correct position as the Zagros Mountains. I also added two land tiles on the Persian gulf.
Net land changes: +2 usable land tiles
Spoiler :
5) Mexico and Central America
- Removed two land tiles from the southern Pacific coast, but compensated for the land loss removing the three mountains that were around Guatemala - the region is hilly and there are indeed some peaks, but nothing even close to justify having three land tiles wasted as mountains.
- Moved one land tile west in the Gulf of Mexico. Added a land tile in the Gulf of California (in Sinaloa), but compensated expanding the Sierra Madre one tile South. Removed the three peaks in Central Mexico, as with Central America, the region is hilly and has peaks, but nothing to justify using land tiles as mountains, the whole area is very populated in real life.
Now the area looks way better.
Net land changes: +4 land tiles.
A dream request? Could it possible to move Tenochtitlan/Mexico City to the marked tile and to somehow remove sea access from the city? The tile I marked is the correct location of the city, the current one is far too north.
Spoiler :
6) Argentina and Chile
- Moved the Patagonia one tile South (removed the ice to make room), I extended the Pampas region in central Argentina with the land gained.
- In Northern Argentina, I removed one tile of the Andes all the way from the copper in Chile to the eastern part of Bolivia. This gives the northern provinces of Argentina more room. The core area of Argentina should also be expanded North, currently it's marked only as Buenos Aires and south of that. To put this into perspective, Central Argentina (which in the map would be the row of Buenos Aires and two rows south) and Northern Argentina (the space north of BA) comprise 80% of the country's territory and 98% of its population in real life.
- Made Chile much more fertile (changed plains to grasslands) and removed a peak to give access to the northern region of the country (although I think this last thing is a scripted change anyway, I saw there were a couple of mountain tiles that had city names). Changed two mountain tiles to hills in the South.
Net land changes: +3 land tiles in Chile, + 7 or 8 in Argentina, +2 or so in Bolivia (not shown in the picture).
Spoiler :
Thanks for the suggestions. It might take some time until I can give them the attention they need and review the changes in the game. Can you create a new thread for this so the discussion here doesn't get lost and I can return it it easier?
Some early thoughts:
- Yucatan seems disjointed from the rest of Mesoamerica now
- we still need to make sure that the Inca remain locked behind the Andes until the passes open
- I actually think to change SEA the entire shape of the Malay peninsula needs to change
- all of this requires revised city name and stability maps which is a pita
But most of these areas really do look better now.
Some early thoughts:
- Yucatan seems disjointed from the rest of Mesoamerica now
- we still need to make sure that the Inca remain locked behind the Andes until the passes open
- I actually think to change SEA the entire shape of the Malay peninsula needs to change
- all of this requires revised city name and stability maps which is a pita
But most of these areas really do look better now.
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
New random event that can happen repeatedly and has a very high probability:
Purge (Requires Totalitarianism):
"Enemies of the people have been subverting our glorious new order in the city of X!"
Option 1: "Eradicate all subversive elements." - Lose one population, +1 temporary happiness
Option 2: "Publicly execute this subhuman scum and round up all their friends, relatives, neighbors and associates and deport them." - Lose two population, one turn of unrest, +1 temporary happiness, receive a free settler
This is as good a time as any to mention that I'm currently reading Hannah Arendt.
Purge (Requires Totalitarianism):
"Enemies of the people have been subverting our glorious new order in the city of X!"
Option 1: "Eradicate all subversive elements." - Lose one population, +1 temporary happiness
Option 2: "Publicly execute this subhuman scum and round up all their friends, relatives, neighbors and associates and deport them." - Lose two population, one turn of unrest, +1 temporary happiness, receive a free settler
This is as good a time as any to mention that I'm currently reading Hannah Arendt.
Maybe add:
*World's police: Control 10 oil resources and make sure noone runs totalitarianism.
This will work better if some AI civs are programmed to run totalitarianism more often. I have in mind Germany and Russia.
Ideally, USA would need a large investment in espionage to change Russia and war to change Germany, or at least it should be an efficient way to do it.
*World's police: Control 10 oil resources and make sure noone runs totalitarianism.
This will work better if some AI civs are programmed to run totalitarianism more often. I have in mind Germany and Russia.
Ideally, USA would need a large investment in espionage to change Russia and war to change Germany, or at least it should be an efficient way to do it.
ozqar
King
Uh... how do I start a new thread with that post? Just copy paste it and reupload the images?
You can also just quote yourself and copy the content to the new thread. No need to reupload the images, the
Imperator Knoedel
Currently obsessed with The Owl House
I don't know, after WWII America didn't care one bit about Totalitarianism and was more pre-occupied with enforcing Free Market, though I guess generic anti-totalitarianism had a resurgence after 9/11.
ozqar
King
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