AbsintheRed
Deity
It is definitely planned, yes.
EDIT: I mean improving both their stability and their army.
Suggestions and Requests
- Thread starter Publicola
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EDIT: I mean improving both their stability and their army.
Osakasayama
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2010
- Messages
- 67
Just finished a Venetian game, here's my thoughts.
- Stability problems: Capturing Athens made my Stability drop from solid to -9 in 1~2 turns, resulting in instant indy flip of Athens or another city in every reload trial. Recent AI Venice often collapse without doing much, but could they be given a stability boost?
- 4th Crusade: Crusade-stealing doesn't occur as often in recent games, but could this be due to the Pope hoarding so much money?
- Mercenaries in Constantinople: Varangian guards and Tagmatas are available for too long. It's ridiculous that the Ottomans can hire them...
gilgames
Priest-King
Stability for human is shaky but accepable. For the AI is huge if they can go big. Otherwise they can collapse easily.
El Bogus
Prince
I have to agree that Venice is one of the only civs with stability problems. At least, when I play Venice. That's probably because I want to keep Merchant Republic. The second tier of the civics is just so much better it's absurd.
Also, the limitation of the number of cities with Bureaucracy and Merchant Republic makes them very undesirable for the human because in no game you aim to have only 5 to 6 cities. The AI on the other hand seems to love these civics. In my opinion way too many civs adopt Merchant Republic.
On the topic of crusade-stealing, this happens fairly often in my games.
AbsintheRed
Deity
I agree, also noticed that stability for Venice got harder nowadays. Both for the human player and for the AI.
To be honest I have no idea what's the cause for the sudden drop, they were usually pretty stable before.
Will give them some easier time in the beginning.
Good point about mercenaries.
Yeah, I also see this happen more times than not.
Indeed, that shouldn't be necessary. Little more details below.
While Venice does get significantly less penalties from Merchant Republic with many cities, you are absolutely right.
So while in itself it shouldn't be a reason for their instability, the difference is still way too high if you compare it to the potential stability bonuses from the 2nd tier civics. You indeed miss out on much stability wise.
Actually that was changed not too long ago.
AI civs now have proper value calculations for these civic options.
The values might be still of a little a bit, but really big civs now shouldn't take it at all, and it also should be much more rare for medium sized civs too.
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El Bogus
Prince
The title of the Roman Emperor was mentioned recently and that got me thinking about new types of victories:
1. Reunification of the Roman Empire: If you conquer all of Rome's former territory Rome is gifted to you and you win the game. This would probably collide with the Domination Victory. Maybe it's possible to turn it off or to avoid it somehow?
2. Merchant Victory: Have access to every company which is present at the time while having at least three different companies in your cities. Have a certain amount of (foreign) trade route yield in your empire and a certain amount of trade route yield in one specific city. Have open borders with 12 civs that are not your vassal. Merchant Republiy and Trade Economic have to be adopted for at least 50 turns.
3. Religious Victories: Catholic: Ensure that the Pope is alive. Control Jerusalem. Make sure that there are no muslim, no pagan and no protestant civs and that 50 % of Europe is controlled by Catholics. Don't have Islam or Protestantism in any of your cities.
Orthodox: Ensure that Constantinople is in Orthodox hands. Convert 7 civilizations to Orthodoxy. Have 100 faith points for hundred turns (which don't have to be consecutive). Make sure that Orthodox civs have more culture than every other confession/religion.
Muslim: Control 4 Holy Cities. Make sure that the Asian and African parts of the map and Spain and the south of Italy and France are controlled by muslim civs.
Protestant: Found Protestantism. Make sure that Protestant civs control the most wonders and 75 % of colonies built. Settle at least one of each Great Person. Make sure there are at least 100 cities with Protestantism.
Pagan: Make sure there are only Pagan civs. Raze every Holy City.
These would obviously require that you can declare war on the Pope.
Feedback is welcome - I only made suggestions.
1. Reunification of the Roman Empire: If you conquer all of Rome's former territory Rome is gifted to you and you win the game. This would probably collide with the Domination Victory. Maybe it's possible to turn it off or to avoid it somehow?
2. Merchant Victory: Have access to every company which is present at the time while having at least three different companies in your cities. Have a certain amount of (foreign) trade route yield in your empire and a certain amount of trade route yield in one specific city. Have open borders with 12 civs that are not your vassal. Merchant Republiy and Trade Economic have to be adopted for at least 50 turns.
3. Religious Victories: Catholic: Ensure that the Pope is alive. Control Jerusalem. Make sure that there are no muslim, no pagan and no protestant civs and that 50 % of Europe is controlled by Catholics. Don't have Islam or Protestantism in any of your cities.
Orthodox: Ensure that Constantinople is in Orthodox hands. Convert 7 civilizations to Orthodoxy. Have 100 faith points for hundred turns (which don't have to be consecutive). Make sure that Orthodox civs have more culture than every other confession/religion.
Muslim: Control 4 Holy Cities. Make sure that the Asian and African parts of the map and Spain and the south of Italy and France are controlled by muslim civs.
Protestant: Found Protestantism. Make sure that Protestant civs control the most wonders and 75 % of colonies built. Settle at least one of each Great Person. Make sure there are at least 100 cities with Protestantism.
Pagan: Make sure there are only Pagan civs. Raze every Holy City.
These would obviously require that you can declare war on the Pope.
Feedback is welcome - I only made suggestions.
Force44
King
I like the reunification of the Roman empire. I'd say substitute domination with this one.
Generally I'm not a big fan of multiple alternative victories. I dislike that for most of them a very similar dominant position is the optimal way to achieve them.
And also achieving them ends the game.
It would be really nice though if similar quests gave mutual exclusive bonuses to help achieve an already established victory condition. That way you have more different options to explore per victory in stead of more very similar options per victory.
Generally I'm not a big fan of multiple alternative victories. I dislike that for most of them a very similar dominant position is the optimal way to achieve them.
And also achieving them ends the game.
It would be really nice though if similar quests gave mutual exclusive bonuses to help achieve an already established victory condition. That way you have more different options to explore per victory in stead of more very similar options per victory.
Force44
King
Just an idea for an UB, might be suitable for Morocco.
Cities on desert are exempt from all kinds of upkeep. (so they don't count towards any science or stability penalties in addition to their exemtion from monetary upkeep)
Cities on desert are exempt from all kinds of upkeep. (so they don't count towards any science or stability penalties in addition to their exemtion from monetary upkeep)
faremoutgames
Chieftain
If I can suggest something, I would have liked that a civilization could really transform itself into Italian civilization during the end of the game (even if it doesn't exactly match with historical dates). It is yet possible, with Genoa more especially, but it's hard because of stability, and because of the Pope (although I converted him to my civ thanks to an army of spies propaging my culture 
)
Plus, maybe it could be interessant to create a romanian civilization at the end of the game (~1600), else Hungarian and Ottoman are too powerful and won't collapse wheras it is the case according to History (Hungary controlled by Austria and Ottoman Empire losing gradually influence at the end of the XVIII century)
)Plus, maybe it could be interessant to create a romanian civilization at the end of the game (~1600), else Hungarian and Ottoman are too powerful and won't collapse wheras it is the case according to History (Hungary controlled by Austria and Ottoman Empire losing gradually influence at the end of the XVIII century)
So I don't know if people have suggested this before or not.. The Southern part of Russia/Ukraine/Crimea is pretty empty throughout the game. Should we add a Civ - Crimean Khanate to it???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate
Crimean Khanate
Start date: 1449
UU: Crimean Tatar Cavalry Archer ... Replaces horse archer Strength: 13? Movement 4? Flank attack against bombard/cannon.
UP: Every unit you killed/captured turns into a slave and can be sold to another civ. Slaves can also be used as a worker.
UHV 1 Capture X units by ?
UHV 2: Have a friendly relationship with the Ottomans
UHV 3: Destroy or vassalize Muscovite, Poland, Lithuania, Romania if they exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate
Crimean Khanate
Start date: 1449
UU: Crimean Tatar Cavalry Archer ... Replaces horse archer Strength: 13? Movement 4? Flank attack against bombard/cannon.
UP: Every unit you killed/captured turns into a slave and can be sold to another civ. Slaves can also be used as a worker.
UHV 1 Capture X units by ?
UHV 2: Have a friendly relationship with the Ottomans
UHV 3: Destroy or vassalize Muscovite, Poland, Lithuania, Romania if they exist.
In one of the other threads, Absinthe confirmed the next four civs to be added: Sicily, Tunisia, Crimean Khanate, and Egypt.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/development-thread-for-1-5.568509/page-16#post-14734205
This same post also notes that Crimea would generally follow its setup in RFCE++.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rfce-beta.446578/#post-11052007 (Scroll to the post below to see the description of Crimea)
AbsintheRed
Deity
Indeed, that's the plan.
The details are up to debate of course - and actually there are some pretty complex and detailed suggestion threads for some of them.
For Crimea and Tunisia there were less posts, I guess because their gameplay role is more straightforward.
I liked the ++ approach for both civs (especially the Crimean one because of it's uniqueness), but as I said, nothing is set into stone.
So feel free to make suggestions about them, or to discuss/criticise the current plans.
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AbsintheRed
Deity
Introducing slaves would be a big amount of work for fairly little benefit in the mod. Representing them ++ style, with extra population and production in the capital isn't too far fetched imo, especially if we keep the razing cities UHV in some form.
Maybe some sort of unit requirement could be added to the city razing UHV?
Seems a little too easy to me.
I don't want to hurt anyone's nationalistic feelings, but Romania has no real place in the mod.
Neither geographically, nor historically.
If I'm not mistaken, Wallachia and Moldavia were only established around the 14th century (with their ancestors only started to move north of the Danube around the 12-13th century), and weren't even regional powers throughout most of the timeframe of the mod.
From the region Serbia is a much better choice historically.
Geographically (from a gameplay point of view) there is very little room in the area of Wallachia, Bulgarian cultural borders from the nearby cities dominate the entire area.
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gilgames
Priest-King
Oh, that raze X cities would be my farovit UHV 
Why not just have Crimea as an unplayable civ? It doesn't make much sense giving them conquest UHVs or whatever. Just have them be very friendly to the Ottomans, and act as a buffer against Lithuania/Russia. The fact that you do not represent the Golden Horde or Kazan means that the politics of Crimean expansion don't even exist in the game.
Ultimately trying to represent truly non-urbanized civilization is a futile exercise in Civilization. Having them be unplayable, and then restrict their ability to build settlers, makes the most sense for this game.
And I second Serbia, Balkans needs more love, more mountains and more Hungarian buffers
Ultimately trying to represent truly non-urbanized civilization is a futile exercise in Civilization. Having them be unplayable, and then restrict their ability to build settlers, makes the most sense for this game.
And I second Serbia, Balkans needs more love, more mountains and more Hungarian buffers
Baron03
Baron
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 330
Is this how SOI handled extra population from nearby razes cities? Nothing too complicated, right?
mp40 killer
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2009
- Messages
- 4
Hello, I was just wanting to make a suggestion with Prussia. I felt their UHV could use some change, as in allowing you to gain Brandenburg area without there being any stability issues.
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