Suggestions and Requests

[Force44]

Spread religions without instability -> better stability -> less time spent on building stability buildings -> more time to expand and produce food and other buildings -> UHV

I like this line of thought. It is strategic while the line

Get faster to locations -> shorter supply lines -> increase in military power -> raze stuff -> UHV

is more tactic. So I am a bit hesitant to compare them.

Nevertheless it is a compelling argument for the bonus to religions not being entirely the absence of a penalty it appears to be on first sight.

However there are still two problems associated to the bonus.

The first one is that it isn't very obvious.
(It works silently in the background (stability when adressed properly is no more than a number on your screen), what probably really makes the AI use is so effectively)

I prefer obvious bonuses over obscured ones.
(And am a firm believer that obvious bonuses are better, you want a bonus to give you liberty, not push you in a certain direction, compelling you in a certain direction is (imo) where UHV-conditions are for)

The second problem associated to the bonus is that in fact it is a penalty part of the time.
(You still have to build those missionaries to spread the good words.
This leaves you weaker compared to not building those missionaries (let alone the associated buildings) for a certain amount of time.)

This is in fact where my proposed increase for the UB comes in.

The bonuses get revealed sooner.
(it is pretty obvious you get a bonus when Judaism spreads to your city and your city becomes better even without having to build the Jewish Quarter)

The timeperiod you are at a disadvantage because you are building missionaries gets shorter.
(The additional food will compensate you for your investment in priests and will shorten the time of your cities building associated improvements (so you can enjoy that part your bonus both sooner and longer))

I was quite satisfied with myself for killing two birds with one stone by this solution.

The increase in power it would accompany I thought of by countering with harder UHV's
(Not only be the civ with the most foodproduction one year between % & $ but also have twice the avarage foodproduction of all civs alive)

On principle I like your solution better though.
(A decrease in difficulty of UHV vs an increase of bonus from UP so UHV becomes possible) It tinkers less (therefore is more elegant).

But in this case I might make an exception because getting more food after succesfully introducing a new religion is fun (well, at least for me). And fun trumps elegance.

It still leaves my concern about the size of the stone intact. It might be an appropriate size to kill two birds. But is it not so big that it kills the entire flock?
(Makes the civ too powerfull compared to other civs)

That could be remedied by simply allowing for one additional food per religion over one (so +1 at 2 religions, +2 at 3 religions, +3 at 4 religions and +5 at 5(all possible) religions).

This is a way more conservative bonus (I wonder why I didn't think of this bonus earlier). It is way less adventurous though. So if the original isn't an Europe obliterating meteor my preference still goest to the original enhancement of the Polish UA (Unique Ability, I like this abbreviation a bit better than UB because that can also mean unique building, might get a bit confusing now Merijn is revamping his efforts on a second UU,UB-modcomp for RFCE)

 

[Arcangelus]

Great, and it's perfect if you upload the files themselves!

PS: Not that I mind mediafire, but you can also attach files directly to posts here.
Go Advanced / Manage Attachments
IIRC all civfanatics accounts have 50 megabytes of storage space.

But I would have needed to put it inside a rar or similar... And I was feeling lazy

About the Polish UP:
The "problem" that is mentioned is the lack of clarity in game that you are in fact receiving a bonus and the downtime required to make missionaries. If so, the obvious answer to the second problem is to give a bonus on missionary creation and/or in the religion spread itself (like making the religion spread by missionaries flawless for the first 3 religions, for instance). But because the main advantage to having multiple religions is the potential access to multiple religious buildings (at least, until religious tolerance is available), a general bonus on their construction time (10%?) would help on that area.
That said, I don't consider it to be a bad bonus as is.

The main problem with a bonus based on food is that it doesn't make thematic sense and, well, it tends to be either game-breaking or imperceptible. You could (maybe) get away saying that religion diversity foments asceticism and translate that into free food, but I don't remember Poland as having a high density population in the first place (in particular if compared with Italy, HRE or France). And in CIV, more population usually translates into more power.

That could be remedied by simply allowing for one additional food per religion over one (so +1 at 2 religions, +2 at 3 religions, +3 at 4 religions and +5 at 5(all possible) religions).

This is a way more conservative bonus (I wonder why I didn't think of this bonus earlier). It is way less adventurous though. So if the original isn't an Europe obliterating meteor my preference still goest to the original enhancement of the Polish UA (Unique Ability, I like this abbreviation a bit better than UB because that can also mean unique building, might get a bit confusing now Merijn is revamping his efforts on a second UU,UB-modcomp for RFCE)

This seems more sensible. But again, Poland population density wasn't exactly on the high side.

NOTE: They were using UP (unique power) as the abbreviate form, not UB. Well, most of them. You did use UB.

 

[merijn_v1]

This is a way more conservative bonus (I wonder why I didn't think of this bonus earlier). It is way less adventurous though. So if the original isn't an Europe obliterating meteor my preference still goest to the original enhancement of the Polish UA (Unique Ability, I like this abbreviation a bit better than UB because that can also mean unique building, might get a bit confusing now Merijn is revamping his efforts on a second UU,UB-modcomp for RFCE)

Modcomp? It was more or less determined it would be incorporated in the main mod.

BTW, as Arcangelus said, we us UP (Unique Power) for what you call UA, not UB. (So there is no confusion) But as UA and UP basically means the same, you can use both.

 

[Panopticon]

Is the Colony Screen labelled correctly?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Modcomp? It was more or less determined it would be incorporated in the main mod.

Yeah, I'm more or less certain about including some more uniques in the mod.
Actually I'm thinking about not making them perfectly symmetric.
Balance in a scenario-based mod is entirely different than in a normal mod.
We can even have some very fitting additional UUs and/or UBs for a couple specific civs even if we don't have any for the rest of them.
But let's see how many good ideas can we collect in the brainstorming thread.

Is the Colony Screen labelled correctly?

There was a mistake in their order in the 1.4 release.
It was fixed in the SVN since.

 

[Publicola]

Have we considered adding a single UU or UB to each civ, rather than one of each? That way we could have some civs with 2 UU's and 1 UB, others with 1 UU and 2 UB's, giving each civ a bit more variety.

Heck, if we were set on adding two Uniques to each civ, you could end up with even more variety. Each civ could end up with any of the following:

• 1 UU, 3 UB
• 2 UU, 2 UB
• 3 UU, 1 UB

For civs that we're having trouble with, this would give us more options than just going with a pure 2 UU/2 UB set-up.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Have we considered adding a single UU or UB to each civ, rather than one of each? That way we could have some civs with 2 UU's and 1 UB, others with 1 UU and 2 UB's, giving each civ a bit more variety.

Heck, if we were set on adding two Uniques to each civ, you could end up with even more variety. Each civ could end up with any of the following:

• 1 UU, 3 UB
• 2 UU, 2 UB
• 3 UU, 1 UB

For civs that we're having trouble with, this would give us more options than just going with a pure 2 UU/2 UB set-up.

Actually I never intended to have a pure 2UU & 2UB setup

 

[Force44]

I am sorry for the confusion, by modcomp I referred to the actual component that is to be part of the mod.
And I guess all the abbreviations just got the better of me. I will strive to be clearer in the future.

 

[Force44]

Also I spotted a rather nasty typo in one of my posts.

+5 for 5 religions should be +4 for 5 religions
(the trend should be +n = n-1 religions)

@Arcangelus
True, Poland wasn't known for its high population density or urbanization rate during the middle ages. But it was known for its economy based on agricultural surplus. Also it compels players to use Polands UP (yay! got the abbreviation right this time). Spread the religion to supply the potential additional population with happiness.

Nevertheless, I'm curious if you have an alternative in mind.

This seems more sensible. But again, Poland population density wasn't exactly on the high side.

Do you imply that the original idea seems insensible? (And per extent this idea also seems insensible?)
If so, I'd like to learn why.

The original idea might seem rediculously powerfull (<- possible source of insensability or perhaps even insanity?) at first glance, but this does not seem like much of problem to me. Different civilizations have different levels of difficulty.

If it is about gameplay.
(the original bonus is so good it invalidates alternative strategies, which is no fun (<-a very compelling argument) )

The original idea was conceived to support the general idea behind the current Polish UP (the ability to build multiple religious buildings in one city (an ability strongly discouraged for other civilizations through stability penalties)

To asses the extent of insensability from lack of gameplay I would like to pose the following question.
How much do the alternative strategies differ from intended (through UP and UHV) gameplay?

(for me it stays within the boundaries of the acceptable because (as previously stated) it supports the general idea behind the Polish UP)

As a final note I'd like to remark that the original proposal initially gives less of a bonus than the more moderate one.
(The introduction of a minimum of 1 per improved square (for 2 religions) is mostly a psychological bonus.
And the very tangible bonus of a minimum of 3 per farm (for 3 religions) was conceived as a reward that is on the one hand achievable but on the other hand something that has to be worked for.
(I like the tangibility and achievability of the bonus, the laborability (word I just made up referring to the extent and quality of labor to be done to achieve something) I consider a bit on the low side, but I preferred this over decreased achievability) )

summary of the paragraph above: A certain amount of thought has been put into the original bonus.

spoiler is off topic

Spoiler :

I have also removed the two lines I promised to delete upon my return
​

 

[Swarbs]

I prefer obvious bonuses over obscured ones.
(And am a firm believer that obvious bonuses are better, you want a bonus to give you liberty, not push you in a certain direction, compelling you in a certain direction is (imo) where UHV-conditions are for)

The second problem associated to the bonus is that in fact it is a penalty part of the time.
(You still have to build those missionaries to spread the good words.
This leaves you weaker compared to not building those missionaries (let alone the associated buildings) for a certain amount of time.)

I guess this would be the main point at which we disagree. Preferring obvious bonuses for no other reason than they are obvious is, in my opinion, not a valid argument. Some of the best UPs are those which operate in subtle ways and create less problems for the player, rather than being a crude and obvious "Do X, get Y" type of bonus.

I also still disagree that the bonus is a penalty - the UP does not force you to build missionaries any more than the Norse UP forces you to raze cities. It is only the UHV which requires you to spread the religions, and as that UHV doesn't occur until the very end of the timeline you have maximum freedom to approach it as you wish.

In fact, the Polish UP gives you the major benefit of being able to spread religion, at a time and rate of your choosing, in order to gain happiness and research benefits in cities which need it, without having to worry about stability.

It is probably the only UP which is directly beneficial for all three UHVs - you can use religion to boost your happy cap and thus produce more food; you can expand into the UHV provinces (many of which are unstable) without worrying about religious stability problems and using multiple religions to address cultural unhappiness; and you can build your cathedrals and quarters whenever you wish, without being hindered by the need to be stable first. So it gives you maximum freedom in how you want to approach the three UHVs, in what order and in what manner (big cities vs lots of cities, cram many cities into few UHV provinces or sprawl across many, build cathedrals early or wait till the very end).

In summary, I think the current Polish UP is highly powerful and highly enabling, and doesn't need an artificial food bonus purely to make it 'more obvious'. Particularly given that, for 90% of the game, Poland would spread Judaism, Catholicism and Orthodoxy in its cities for +2, basically making it into Kiev. Same gameplay for food and conquest UHV = loss of diversity imo.

 

[Force44]

@ Swarbs

I guess this would be the main point at which we disagree. Preferring obvious bonuses for no other reason than they are obvious is, in my opinion, not a valid argument. Some of the best UPs are those which operate in subtle ways and create less problems for the player, rather than being a crude and obvious "Do X, get Y" type of bonus.

You are getting ahead of yourself (again).

I stated I preferred obvious bonuses over obscured ones.

This does not mean I prefer obviousness for obviousness' sake. (<- more ricewine, cheers! )
It means I value clarity.

(and yes, I do consider clarity to have intrinsic value/has value for its own sake)

I also still disagree that the bonus is a penalty - the UP does not force you to build missionaries any more than the Norse UP forces you to raze cities. It is only the UHV which requires you to spread the religions, and as that UHV doesn't occur until the very end of the timeline you have maximum freedom to approach it as you wish.

You are up against some very solid logic here. As long as missionaries cost hammers you should just consider yourself convinced. Move on to an argument you can win, like the pros outweigh the cons of this bonus.

In fact, the Polish UP gives you the major benefit of being able to spread religion, at a time and rate of your choosing, in order to gain happiness and research benefits in cities which need it, without having to worry about stability.

This is an excellent argument for stating why you think the Polish UP is good enough as it is. The problem with it is that besides more options to do good things you also have more options to do bad things. Now, more options to do bad things, is that a bonus? (I daresay not) So at best this application of the Polish UP is a mixed blessing.

It is probably the only UP which is directly beneficial for all three UHVs - you can use religion to boost your happy cap and thus produce more food; you can expand into the UHV provinces (many of which are unstable) without worrying about religious stability problems and using multiple religions to address cultural unhappiness; and you can build your cathedrals and quarters whenever you wish, without being hindered by the need to be stable first. So it gives you maximum freedom in how you want to approach the three UHVs, in what order and in what manner (big cities vs lots of cities, cram many cities into few UHV provinces or sprawl across many, build cathedrals early or wait till the very end).

This may all very well be true

(although I'd be surprised if you weren't prevented from doing at least some of those things by other things than religious instability. If someone who is dying of cancer gets hit by a truck, did the cancer kill him or the truck? - I daresay the truck, implying that the bonus is not as enabling as you make it seem to be.)

but is it the intended essence of the bonus?
If so, it is a lot more obscure than being able to build religious buildings for non-state religions without collapsing due to instability.

In summary, I think the current Polish UP is highly powerful and highly enabling, and doesn't need an artificial food bonus purely to make it 'more obvious'. Particularly given that, for 90% of the game, Poland would spread Judaism, Catholicism and Orthodoxy in its cities for +2, basically making it into Kiev. Same gameplay for food and conquest UHV = loss of diversity imo.

I am really happy about this paragraph for two reasons

(1) I did not know you could controll the spread of Judaism to such an extent.
(How do you manage that? I would like to make use of it in my games. Being able to add Judaism to cities of your choosing (particularly Byzantium) would be great)
I figured you would have to get your hands on islam somehow to spread three religions to the city of your choosing (ofc luck>skill everytime )

(2) In this paragraph you state that (this) increase in clarity (adding bonus tied to the amount of religions in the Polish cities) comes at the cost of diversity.
This is just excellent arguing. I love everything about it.

​

___________
You state what you value (al be the beginning of the paragraph in stead of the end the place I would prefer it to be), diversity.
And you state how the proposed change aversely affects the value you hold dear.
(The UP of Kiev becomes less Unique as a particular of decreasing diversity)

This is a line of thought I think everyone sane can work with.

(fortunately I consider myself sane so:)

My personal take on this issue is: If improving the UP of Poland worsens the UP of Kiev, you might want to reconsider the UP of Kiev.

(After all, both civilizations were known for their agricultural surplusses)

 

[Swarbs]

@ Swarbs

blah blah blah

Ah, I see. So when you sent me that PM saying you had said all you had to say, you actually hadn't?

Well, all I really have to say is:

(1) I did not know you could controll the spread of Judaism to such an extent.
(How do you manage that? I would like to make use of it in my games. Being able to add Judaism to cities of your choosing (particularly Byzantium) would be great)

Kazimierz

 

[Force44]

Kazimierz and?

I never noticed you could build Jewish missionaries after completing that wonder.

The only way I can come up with to spread Judaism in a controlled fashion sofar is (1) adopt Judaism as a state religion. And (2) switch to religious law. And I'm not sure even that works.
(not even mentioning facing the huge stability drop I expect to experience when doing so with any civilization but Poland)

 

[Arcangelus]

@Arcangelus
True, Poland wasn't known for its high population density or urbanization rate during the middle ages. But it was known for its economy based on agricultural surplus. Also it compels players to use Polands UP (yay! got the abbreviation right this time). Spread the religion to supply the potential additional population with happiness.

Nevertheless, I'm curious if you have an alternative in mind.

Let me state the facts:
- Poland (and by extension, The Poland-Lithuanian commonwealth) were known for selling agricultural products on mass. (mainly grain, if I remember correctly)
- Poland wasn't high on the population density department.
- As such, producing more food didn't help Poland population wise, but economically.
- Eventually, the prices fell and Poland's economy followed suit.
- The attempt of Poland's nobles to increase this kind of economic model led to further damages.
- The model existed in one way or another until its dissolution by the communist.

Now, on civ4:
- More food means more population.
- More population equals more tiles that can be worked.
- More tiles being worked leads to a higher production, commerce and food.
- Besides food, the main limiting factor on grow is happiness. Having a high population is not that helpful if most of them refuse to work.
- The Polish UP allows them to create extra buildings, allowing usage of citizens that for anyone else would be for most of the game.
- The final factor limiting grow is healthiness. You can offset it with a higher production of food, which is what you suggest.
- The combined factors result on high density, highly productive cities that are objectively better than what anyone else can get (except maybe Kiev with religious tolerance).

The history would suggest a gold(money) bonus, not a one. But again, I'm not sure if Poland needs a buff on that area.

Do you imply that the original idea seems insensible? (And per extent this idea also seems insensible?)
If so, I'd like to learn why.

I don't imply. I'm saying: under the current circumstances, Poland can get a high population already (if they bother to develop their land, that is). Last time I conquered them as Germany, I managed to get a considerable population from that area (and I had to deal with low stability and the mongols in the process). Giving them a bonus on food would increase their population further, and their UP allows them to use more of that population (the religious buildings that give translate into extra useful citizens that most civs can't afford until much later). More useful citizens means that Poland is stronger in all metrics, which is not quite what happened.

I said that the second idea was more sensible because it doesn't escalate. +4 means 2 extra citizens. Strong, but there it ends. You can easily get more food from your original idea, which translates into more citizens that can benefit from the bonus.

How much do the alternative strategies differ from intended (through UP and UHV) gameplay?

Personally, I deem this point as irrelevant. If I want a domination victory (for instance), any power that helps me with stability will be welcomed. After some practice, is not that hard to collapse most AI nations nor make them receptive to capitulation (in essence, kill most of their units and take a city or 2. A few blockades also help).
As Poland, you biggest problem will probably be Germany; however, there is little resistance to eastern expansion (or to Lithuania). I'm pretty sure to have read a post about how to archive this type of victory with Poland somewhere (and Germany indeed attacked in there, so he had to strike first).

You are up against some very solid logic here. As long as missionaries cost hammers you should just consider yourself convinced. Move on to an argument you can win, like the pros outweigh the cons of this bonus.
This is an excellent argument for stating why you think the Polish UP is good enough as it is. The problem with it is that besides more options to do good things you also have more options to do bad things. Now, more options to do bad things, is that a bonus? (I daresay not) So at best this application of the Polish UP is a mixed blessing.

Actually, an ability that allows me to make bad decisions is great. It means that the ability grants me a bigger margin for error, and thus i have less need to play "perfectly".
Besides, if your biggest issue is the "dead time" while creating missionaries there is a better bonus for that situation. Simply add a bonus for missionary creation. Let's say 50% cheaper missionaries.

(although I'd be surprised if you weren't prevented from doing at least some of those things by other things than religious instability. If someone who is dying of cancer gets hit by a truck, did the cancer kill him or the truck? - I daresay the truck, implying that the bonus is not as enabling as you make it seem to be.)

It may very well be the cancer.
Was the person in question in severe depression? If so, did the depression make him/her suicidal enough to purposefully go into harms way?
Was s/he paying little attention to the traffic because of the cancer (directly or indirectly) and tried to cross when s/he shouldn't?
Was the driver of the truck related (by blood or otherwise) with the cancer patient, and did this fact distract him long enough to hit the person in question?
Was the cancer impairing his sensorial or intellectual capacity?
Did the treatment weaken him/her enough that wasn't able to react in time?
Was the cancer causing an aneurism when the patient was into the truck's way?
Did the cancer cause a multi-systemic failure in the street, being hit by the truck after being dead?

Those are just the few that I can convey properly in english. I'm sure there are many more: as long the remotion of the cancer from the equation result in him/her not being hit by the truck and/or being dead, you can consider it as the cause or catalyst of the situation. Remember that the Occam's razor doesn't say "the simper answer is always correct" but "the simpler hypothesis that fully answers a given question is the more likely to be correct". But this is nitpicking, so carry on.

My personal take on this issue is: If improving the UP of Poland worsens the UP of Kiev, you might want to reconsider the UP of Kiev.

But you can get quite far with line of thinking. And by that I mean that, buffing a UP will result into easier UHV (assuming no changes). As that is not desirable in most cases, the difficulty of the UHV will be increased. This can lead to a relative weaker position to achieve the UHV to the prior situation even with a stronger UP.

Now, if the relative power of a civ directly affect others, the impact of this line of thinking has more a profound impact. Kiev in particular almost doesn't interact with anyone else, so it's not relevant for this. However, Poland interacts with at least 3 other civs (Germany, Lithuania, Prussia, maybe Hungary and Novgorod) and it interferes with at least one of their UHV. Because a much stronger Poland means that their survival rate is decreased and/or the UHV gets more difficult to archive, you may want to increase their relative power as well. It's difficult to determine when enough is enough with this logic, and the work involved may not be worth it.

 

[Force44]

Thank you for your extensive commentary Arcangelus.

Overall I can say little but that your conclusions and reasoning pretty much demonstrate that any bonus to food spirals a civ out of control compared to its neighbouring civs.

A pity, because I still believe a bonus to foodproduction for Poland is fitting.
But somehow that bonus should be accompanied by a restriction to (not) turn the surplus food into population.

Forgive me for not quoting you. If it I am unclear I can elaborate. I consider inteded play not a meek point as it is a way to convey the uniqueness of the civilization. Playing Polish should feel different from playing German (bad example, those two civs should have considerable overlap on how they play, both are part of middle-european culture) no make that Cordoban. And intended play is a (imo valuable) tool for that.

Being able to make more mistakes makes for a bigger challenge. I understand the appeal of that. But calling it a bonus. No. I'm just not going to accept that. It's an obstacle. A handicap. A hurdle. Whatever you want to call it. Even olympic hurdle-specialists can cover the amount of distance they cover on a race with hurdles faster without the hurdles.

And every building in civIV is an investment. An initial penalty for a later bonus (reward).

I can see it in no other way. More investmest, more rewards, but also more initial penalties. The additional priest required is just a factor that increases the initial penalties.

Granted a reduction in priest cost reduces the initial penalty. But it does so by giving free hammers. I found giving more food more elegant and thematic because it can be converted into hammers (both usuable on the priests and the buildings) simulating the trade of food for other resources. This conversion is however accompanied by bigger cities (or would be in its current form). So I might need to rethink this and (probably will) come to the conclusion that a reduction in costs would be preferable over an increase in production.

About the cancer car truck example. It is interesting how you came to this conclusion. It was put to my attention exactly during a philosophy course on Ockham's Razor. And it served as a prime example of a lot of irrelevant information. Everyone being hit by the truck would be dead. Cancer or no cancer.

This may be a bit off-topic but if you came to the opposite conclusion during a philosophy class it would be really interesting to learn about the reasoning you (or your professor) applied. Not nitpicking at all (imho). It seems like you (or he or she) want(s) to increase the power of your hypothesis in exchange for specificity. Not Ockhamish at all (imho) but very interesting. If it were a debate I would probably throw Hume at you.

As for your final point. I concede balance is a sore point in modding. And it is not horribly wrong at the moment. I would even go so far as to say it is acceptable. So there is little urgency to make this aspect of the mod a priority. I consider it good timing to devote time and energy to other things yet unmodified to bring interesting new features at this moment. Still, a rebalancing of UP's ÚB's UU's and locations for all civilizations might be a lot of work but may yet reveal an improved endresult. I think one should not be discouraged, well maybe a little discouraged, so I think one should not be too discouraged to comtemplate te possibilities of such.

Thank you once again for your contribution.

(My) conclusions sofar:

Bonus food should not be given to the Polish without the restriction to (not) turn this bonusfood into growth. (A sensible policy for every civilization)

The Polish UP might be a bit obscure but any improvement to it should ideally not effect the Polish (game-)economy. This already will appear to be on the strong side (in the game) eventually.

Philosophy Rules

 

[AbsintheRed]

Being able to make more mistakes makes for a bigger challenge.

I don't think anyone said that.
Anyway, that's not the point of my post.

While I do enjoyed parts of this conversation, it starts getting redundant.
I will end it: I'm not willing to add a food production bonus to Poland.
While I can see where your suggestions come from, my opinion on this is much closer to Swarbs' and Arcangelus'.
Also I don't want to see the Polish region even more densely populated than it is currently. That alone should be enough reason, even if nothing else was said on the other side.

If the Polish UP get's an additional bonus, it will be something connected to easier religion spread.
But I'm not entirely convinced even that's necessary. Certainly not from a balancing point of view, Polish UHVs are more or less ok currently.
If added, it should be something relatively minor, mostly to increase the "feel" about the UP.


PS: Actually balancing has nothing to do with this, even on a smallish level.
That's not the real reason against it (or beside it), as some minor balancing changes won't take a too big toll on the overall balance of the mod.
Especially since there are many things changing nowadays. There is no real balance with continuous development.
A more "final" balance will come much later.
No real reason to invest too much time in it at this point.

 

[Force44]

Absinthred, I was wondering, what is your stance on further customization of the provinces?

Already the some provinces have the unique feature of being increased instable and they provide mercenaries.

I think I would really like it if they could be further customized. So certain bonuses (or penalties) are not (only) tied to the civilization, but to the province(s) a civilization occupies.

eg. (I) Northern Italy and the Southern Netherlands were relatively highly urbanised in the middle ages. So cottage-Hamlet-village-towns would grow at an improved rate in those provinces and receive an additional production upon reaching townstatus.

eg. (II) Christianity was spread in large parts of Europe through Ireland.
So upon completion of a missionary in Ireland you do not receive a missionary but you get to pick one out of three cities you may attempt to spread the religion (in stead of missionary) you 'built' to.

eg. (III) Certain areas known to not hold large cities could receive a cap on surpluss food for cities built there. (The surplus food could go towards production or commerce)

Do you already have something similar in mind? Is it something you think about along the lines, nice idea but I prefer to implement other stuff in the time I have for modding? Or is it something that came up before and was rejected conceptually? I'm curious.

ps (the three options for opinions are but guidelines, please don't feel restricted in your personal opinion by them)

 

[AbsintheRed]

This is a great idea! Didn't come up before, at least I don't remember it.
Will put it into the idea list, so it's something that we can think about when it's more actual.
But even if decide that this is something good for the mod, I won't start on anything similar anytime soon.
At the moment not even religion spread is tied to provinces.

 

[El Bogus]

eg. (II) Christianity was spread in large parts of Europe through Ireland.
So upon completion of a missionary in Ireland you do not receive a missionary but you get to pick one out of three cities you may attempt to spread the religion (in stead of missionary) you 'built' to.

This is true for the early Middleages. Later on, the irish-scottish monks were not as important as frankish and anglo-saxon missionaries. So, when the player actually get's a grasp on Ireland, the influence of the Celtic Church had already declined. It wouldn't make sense to give the Irish said option.

 

[gilgames]

Kazimierz and?

I never noticed you could build Jewish missionaries after completing that wonder.

The only way I can come up with to spread Judaism in a controlled fashion sofar is (1) adopt Judaism as a state religion. And (2) switch to religious law. And I'm not sure even that works.
(not even mentioning facing the huge stability drop I expect to experience when doing so with any civilization but Poland)

Religious Law will do the trick in itself. You can try it, Byz game at 500AD Jerusalem can build jewish missionary.