Suggestions and Requests

[Arcangelus]

Proposed change to the history of Veche Hall:

Spoiler :

The word "veche" refers to popular assemblies in medieval Slavic countries. The east slavic veche is thought to have originated in the tribal assemblies of Eastern Europe, thus predating the Rus' state. The earliest mentions of veches in Russian chronicles refer to examples in Belgorod, a city on the Dnieper in 977, the Novgorod Republic in 1016, and in Kiev in 1068. The assemblies discussed matters of war and peace, adopted laws, and called for and expelled rulers.

Proposed change to the history of Vaivadija: (Everything above the last sentence of the second paragraph is changed to some extent)

Spoiler :

A voivodeship, also spelled voivodship, voivodina or vojvodina, is the area administrated by a voivode or governor in several countries of central and east Europe. Voivodeships have existed since medieval times in Poland, Wallachia(in current Romania), Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia and Serbia. The administrative level of a voivodeship resembles a western duchy, much as the title of voivode was equivalent to that of a duke. The voivode (literally, "leader of warriors") was originally the military commander next to the ruler.

Contemporary, the term is used for the "provinces" (województwa) of Poland, of which there are currently 16. There is also an autonomous province of Vojvodina in Serbia.

Also, the word "voivodeship" appears in some of the larger English dictionaries, such as the OED and Webster's Third New International Dictionary, though it is not in common usage. Depending on the context, historic voivodeships may also be referred to as "duchies," "provinces," "palatinates," "administrative districts" or "regions".

Proposed history bluff for "Research Institute"

Spoiler :

A Research Institute is a establishment dedicated to science and research. Although the term often implies natural science research, there are also many research institutes in the social sciences as well, especially for sociological and historical research purposes.

In the early medieval period, the several astronomic observatories in the Arab world served this purpose. A famous example is the 9th century Baghdad observatory built during the time of the Abbasid caliph al-Ma'mun, though the most famous were the 13th-century Maragheh observatory and the 15th-century Ulugh Beg Observatory. On Europe, the earliest recorded instance of a research institute would be Uraniborgn complex on the island of Hven(Denmark) of the 16th century, an astronomical laboratory set up to make highly accurate measurements of the stars led by Tycho Brahe.

The Scientific Revolution brought an increase in the number and scope of such places. In France Louis XIV founded the Académie royale des sciences in 1666 to foster research, while in London the Royal Society was founded. On 28 January 1724 Peter the Great established an educational-research institute to be built in his newly created imperial capital, St Petersburg. His plan combined provisions for linguistic, philosophical and scientific instruction with a separate academy in which graduates could pursue further scientific researchm, unique for allowing to conduct scientific research within the structure of a university.

Proposed history bluff for "Kasbah"

Spoiler :

A Kasbah is a kind of medina, islamic city or citadel.

It was a place for the local leader to live and a defense when a city was under attack. A kasbah has high walls, usually without windows. Sometimes, they were built on hilltops so that they could be more easily defended. Some were placed near the entrance to harbors.

The ownership of a Kashab was a sign of wealth. When colonisation started in 1830, in northern Algeria, there were numerous kashabs that lasted over a century.

Another use for the word is to describe the old part of a city, in which case its equivalent to a Medina. A Medina is a district of many north African cities that is typically walled, with narrow and maze-like streets. Many historical fountains, palaces and mosques tend to be here.

Proposed history bluff for "Seaport" (honestly, I didn't have much to work with here)

Spoiler :

A Seaport is a port or harbour either accessible to or on a seacoast able to provide accommodations for seagoing vessels. It's further categorized as a "cruise port" or a "cargo port". Additionally, "cruise ports" are also known as a "home port" or a "port of call". The "cargo port" is also further categorized into a "bulk" or "break bulk port" or as a "container port".

BTW, what is a "Catholic Cathedral School"? Google suggest that it may refer to a specific college. Is it a lingering reference not used anymore?

 

[merijn_v1]

This is what the SoI manual says about companies:

Spoiler :

Companies
Companies replace corporations in SoI. With the name change comes a change in mechanics - they are not found and spread by the players. Instead, they spread automatically to cities that meet their requirements. The main concerns of companies are the city's geographic location, buildings, religions, resources and trade opportunities.

Once the company settles in a given city, it will start producing some commerce/yields just like a corporation, but without maintenance. Additionally, the city will be able to construct buildings and train units associated with the company.

If the company's vital requirements are not met, or if it finds a more suitable location, it will leave the city - e.g. Hospitallers and Templars will leave cities captured by Muslim players.

The detailed preferences are as follows, with essential requirements emphasized:
Sufism
• Sunni or Shia Islam population & state religion
• Not running Persecution civic
• Available Incense & Coffee
• Religious and scholarly buildings, as well as Turkish Hans
• Mevlana's Tomb (all cities owned by the controlling player)
• No brothels
• Active from 9th century

The Karimi Family
• Sunni or Shia Islam population and state-religion
• Not running State Monopoly civic
• Available Gold, Wheat, Spices and Cotton
• Trade infrastructure
• Trade routes
• The Lighthouse of Alexandria
• Market Economy or Merchant Capitalism Civic
• No competition from Venetians or Genoans
• Active from 11th century

Hashshishiyya
• Provinces in Northern Iran and the Levant
• Not running Persecution civic
• Available Incense, Copper and Stone
• Shia population
• Defensive and espionage buildings
• Active from 11th to 14th century

Knights Hospitaller
• Cities in the Levant and Southern Anatolia
• Christian state-religion
• Christian population
• Available Iron, Stone and Horses
• Militaristic buildings
• Krak des Chevaliers
• No competition from Knights Templar
• Active from 12th century
Knights Templar
• Cities in the Levant
• Catholic state-religion
• Christian population
• Available Gold, Silver and Incense
• Militaristic buildings
• The Dome of the Rock
• No competition from Knights Hospitaller
• Active from 12th to 15th century

Venetian Merchants
• Coastal cities along the Mediterranean coast
• Not at war with Catholic civs (if non-Catholic)
• Not running State Monopoly civic
• Christian population and State-religion, especially Catholic
• Available Spice, Silk and Incense
• Commercial buildings
• Trade routes
• Market Economy or Merchant Capitalism Civic
• No competition from Genoans or Karimis
• Active from 12th century

Genoan Merchants
• Coastal cities along the Mediterranean and Black Sea coast
• Not at war with Catholic civs (if non-Catholic)
• Not running State Monopoly civic
• Christian population and State-religion, especially Catholic
• Available Salt, Silk and Cotton
• Commercial buildings
• Trade routes
• Market Economy or Merchant Capitalism Civic
• No competition from Venetians or Karimis
• Active from 12th century

Estado da India
• Coastal cities along the Indian Ocean (Arabian Sea)
• Not at war with Portugal
• Not running State Monopoly civic
• Christian population, especially Catholic
• Available Spices, Incense and Pearls
• Commercial buildings
• Trade routes
• Market Economy or Merchant Capitalism Civic
• Active from 16th century

 

[Arcangelus]

Interesting. I'll download SoI and see how it works on practice. Meanwhile, more text:
Updated text for Seaport:

Spoiler :

A Seaport is a port or harbour either accessible to or on a seacoast able to provide accommodations for seagoing vessels. It's further categorized as a "cruise port" or a "cargo port", depending on whenever their purpose is either passengers' boarding or merchandise's handling. "Cruise ports" are also known as a "home port" or a "port of call". The "cargo port" is also further categorized into a "bulk" or "break bulk port" or as a "container port".

Shieling history bluff:

Spoiler :

A Shieling is a hut or collection of huts once common in a wild or lonely place in the hills and mountains of Scotland and northern England. The word also refers to a mountain pasture used for the grazing of cattle in summer.

During summer, farmers along with their families lived in shieling to have their livestock graze common land. Shielings were therefore associated with the transhumance system of agriculture, that being the seasonal movement of people along their livestock between fixed summer and winter pastures. The mountain huts generally fell out of use by the end of the 17th century, although in remote areas this system continued into the 18th.

There is a building called "Konets". The closest reference that I've found are the "kontsy", a kind of city district in which the tradespeople and craftsmen of the Novgorod republic were organized. Is this what the building is supposed to be?

Also, you wouldn't believe how hard to is find a decent definition for "Public School". It seems that in the Anglosphere, the term "State school" is the closest to it.

Spoiler :

State schools, also known as public schools outside of England and Wales, generally refer to primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children without charge, funded in whole or in part by taxation. The term may also refer to public institutions of post-secondary education.

However, as this is a UB for Prussia, perhaps "gymnasium" (grammar school) would be a more appropriate name. Thoughts?

 

[Swarbs]

Interesting. I'll download SoI and see how it works on practice. Meanwhile, more text:
Updated text for Seaport:

Spoiler :

A Seaport is a port or harbour either accessible to or on a seacoast able to provide accommodations for seagoing vessels. It's further categorized as a "cruise port" or a "cargo port", depending on whenever their purpose is either passengers' boarding or merchandise's handling. "Cruise ports" are also known as a "home port" or a "port of call". The "cargo port" is also further categorized into a "bulk" or "break bulk port" or as a "container port".

That seems quite generic imo - we really need something which actually connects to Aragon and its thassalocratic nature.

There is a building called "Konets". The closest reference that I've found are the "kontsy", a kind of city district in which the tradespeople and craftsmen of the Novgorod republic were organized. Is this what the building is supposed to be?

Yes, konets is the singular of kontsy.

Also, you wouldn't believe how hard to is find a decent definition for "Public School". It seems that in the Anglosphere, the term "State school" is the closest to it.

Spoiler :

State schools, also known as public schools outside of England and Wales, generally refer to primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children without charge, funded in whole or in part by taxation. The term may also refer to public institutions of post-secondary education.

However, as this is a UB for Prussia, perhaps "gymnasium" (grammar school) would be a more appropriate name. Thoughts?

Again, this is a bit too generic - the public school reflects the Prussian public education system at the time. Public school in this context is the Anglicisation of Volksschule, so that's probably what we should be going from.

"In 1717 King Frederick William I of Prussia decreed the compulsory education of children from the age of five to twelve. They had to be able to read and write and were obliged to memorise the Protestant catechism. In 1763 King Frederick the Great enacted a first Prussian general school law, elaborated by the theologian Johann Julius Hecker. This law saw the establishment of extensive public school networks across Prussia, and later the wider German states"

 

[DC123456789]

Yeah, public school is probably the best name. In English, it carries the important connotations of being free and compulsory for all children, which is kind of the whole point of the UB.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The stability guide seems to need updating (Expansion section, founding a city), but I'll just copy the one on here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=564135. Am I correct to assume that Portugal no longer gets instability-free expansion?
I was also translating some of the texts on that file to Spanish, if you are interested. Albeit true be told, besides the names and displays I doubt anyone else will ever read it.

Actually I changed the stability guide in the forum right after I did some changes to my work version. So it was the strange situation that the guide was updated even before the actual changes made their way to the SVN
I bow down to you that you were able to spot it

Spanish tranlations (and all other language translations of course) are very welcomed.
I will gladly include anything you upload.

I think someone mentioned that had fixed that on RFC at some point, but I may be misremembering. Anyway, not a big deal.

It would be awesome if you could find a link.
That bug is annoying the hell out of me.
AFAIK it's also present in SoI - I might remember wrong though.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@Arcangelus
Corporations vs Companies:
It's one of the next things on my todo list to finally finish the changes on the new company mechanics.
Strongly connected to the map and provinces updates. So it will really come very soon. One of the main features for 1.5.

It means that there won't be "masters" or any other similar units spreading the corporations/companies.
No need for any similar text you provided here, or any text for company units in the Civilopedia.
On the other hand, I will add a new page under Concepts for them.
If you are willing to, you can start that one.

PS: adding your other Civilopedia updates right now.

 

[Panopticon]

Yeah, public school is probably the best name. In English, it carries the important connotations of being free and compulsory for all children, which is kind of the whole point of the UB.

Except if you speak English English

 

[AbsintheRed]

Except if you speak English English

Well, I prefer English English, especially in RFCE.
So let's hear your suggestion too

 

[Arcangelus]

Well, a problem with the "update to win10" thing happened and a restoration was needed. Unfortunately, the damn option made a "reset to factory settings" instead of restoring to a saved state. So, I wasn't able to continue for today.

That seems quite generic imo - we really need something which actually connects to Aragon and its thassalocratic nature.

Small rant about Aragon as thalassocracy follows. If not interested, jump to the last paragraph.

Honestly, I wouldn't call Aragon a thalassocracy for most of its existence by any definition. From the beginning (12th century) until at least 1230, most of Aragon expansion was product of either land conquest (mainly moors), multilateral treaties or dynastic ties (most of which were lost in the Cathar revolution and subsequent treaties with France). And more importantly: excluding Mallorca, Aragon held a contiguous territory.

The campaign on Sardinia was mostly fought on the island itself. While there was a important naval battle against Pisa, the numbers involved (that I've found) don't suggest a focus on naval warfare. The century or so that Aragon required to conquer the island suggest either financial problems or military neglect rather than naval focus.
Then we have the Sicilia (Naples) issue. Again, I wasn't able to find any mention of significant sea commitment. It seems to have been result of papal intrigue and military annexed.

Now, if we use thalassocracy under the meaning "it owned mostly non-contiguous territory", I agree from the moment Sicilia was at least partially on their hands. But under this definition, Wouldn't the Spanish empire also be a thalassocracy?
Further investigation reveled that most if not all thalassocracies were deemed as prone to collapse as soon as their sea power was either challenged or destroyed (unsure of applies to Aragon) and lacked big "swathes" of contiguous terrain (albeit this supposedly excludes the Spanish Empire as thalassocracy, how it still considers the British one when they held India and a good chunk of Africa I don't quite understand.)

I believe that the building is actually referring to the "Consulates of the Sea", a kind of institution that regulated maritime and commercial law, which were establish in the major ports. There is also the "Llibre del Consolat del Mar", a text that seems to have been very influential (and regarded as Italian for a good while) and basis for the current maritime law. Adding a paragraph about it seem reasonable.

Yes, konets is the singular of kontsy.

OK. I'll see what I can write about it.(I hope I don't end up needing to learn Russian in the process)

Again, this is a bit too generic - the public school reflects the Prussian public education system at the time. Public school in this context is the Anglicisation of Volksschule, so that's probably what we should be going from.

"In 1717 King Frederick William I of Prussia decreed the compulsory education of children from the age of five to twelve. They had to be able to read and write and were obliged to memorise the Protestant catechism. In 1763 King Frederick the Great enacted a first Prussian general school law, elaborated by the theologian Johann Julius Hecker. This law saw the establishment of extensive public school networks across Prussia, and later the wider German states"

Well, when I lack context I tend to look for the actual word or concept. Until I read Prussian history (and reached Frederick) I hadn't realized that I misinterpreted the reason for the UU, and by then "gymnasium" seemed a more fitting name. (BTW, I through it was a representation of the curriculum standardization and overall higher literacy rate of Prussia during the 19th century, but that seemed a little off-period.)

Volksschule: literally "school of the people" (or "people school"), refers in most cases to compulsory education. Public school means "state owned schools" anywhere on the Anglosphere except Great Britain. I'm still to hear about a state school that requires payment on individual basis instead of taxes, but I do know of public schools that are private.
Honestly at this point I would advocate for a change of name. "State school", "Gymnasium" or even "Volksschule" (there is precedent, ie:konets) seem better fits. But if there no support for it, I'll relent.

@AbsintheRed: I'll wait until it's implemented. After all, I don't know what requirements you will choose.
And I only pick it up because of the difference in wide (and lack of parenthesis) on that area. Are those changes included on the latest version?

 

[SanJose]

konets: old unit of territorial division of the municipality, which covers one or more streets
konets=quarter if simplified

 

[Force44]

I prefer Volksschule overn Public school too. Its pronounciation is very close to Folkschool. A word native English speakers will understand (although they might for an instance think you are referring to a place where you learn how to dance a certain type of dance)

Your argument on Aragon not being a thalassocracy seems compelling to me, but they did have naval skirmishes with the muslims of the Maghreb and Granada and they were a part-time ally part-time rival of Genoa in the western Mediterrenean. (source: Medieval Naval Warfare 1000-1500 https://books.google.nl/books?isbn=041523977X (I typed Aragon naval medieval in google and this came out on top))

 

[Swarbs]

Small rant about Aragon as thalassocracy follows. If not interested, jump to the last paragraph.

Not wanting to get too bogged down in this, as it is off topic to the thread and potentially an endless debate. But the core definition of a thalassocracy imo is dominance of a number of coastal areas, linked by naval power, with limited dominance of the interior away from the coast.

I would agree that Aragon wasn't a thalassocracy until at least 1250, but it became one as a result of Castille's conquest of Murcia, limiting expansion in Iberia. After that, the Aragonese monarchs showed a distinctive policy of focusing on controlling regions they could easily reach and reinforce by sea from Aragon.

Spain and Britain's empires weren't pure thalassocracies because, as you point out, they controlled so much inland territory in many areas of the globe, and much of these territories were often obtained through land wars rather than naval invasions. Although you could say Britain's empire had thalassocratic qualities as it relied on control of the global seas.

Either way, I would agree that the "Consulates of the Sea" is a much better name for the Aragonese UB, and reflects the way Aragon used its naval power to influence maritime law. So I would go for that as the basis of the UB.

Honestly at this point I would advocate for a change of name. "State school", "Gymnasium" or even "Volksschule" (there is precedent, ie:konets) seem better fits. But if there no support for it, I'll relent.

I would agree with the use of Volksschule as well tbh. It's not "English English", but neither are chateau, feitoria, folwark, hammam, noria, kasbah, konets, kremlin, rathaus or soldattorp. And Volksschule has much more connections to the Prussian education system than the rather generic 'public school', so would be more historically unique.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Volksschule it is.
Isn't Consulates of the Sea sound strange for a building?
Sea Consulate? Probably not that much better either.

 

[El Bogus]

I'd prefer Gymnasium over Volksschule because of the +25 % Great People Birth Rate. Pupils visited the Volksschule for the first 8 years and then could visit the Gymnasium if they wanted to study at a university. Probably most of Prussia's Great Persons visited the Gymnasium.
Also, it's the word which is still in use.
EDIT: Volksschule is completely okay, though. Just wanted to give my two cents.

 

[Swarbs]

Volksschule it is.
Isn't Consulates of the Sea sound strange for a building?
Sea Consulate? Probably not that much better either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consulate_of_the_Sea

Tell it to the Aragonese!

It does sound a bit strange, but no more so than the modern term Consulate of the [nation]. Maybe Maritime Consulate would be neater?

 

[Force44]

I'd prefer Gymnasium over Volksschule because of the +25 % Great People Birth Rate. Pupils visited the Volksschule for the first 8 years and then could visit the Gymnasium if they wanted to study at a university. Probably most of Prussia's Great Persons visited the Gymnasium.
Also, it's the word which is still in use.
EDIT: Volksschule is completely okay, though. Just wanted to give my two cents.

Besides, there is only so much that you can learn from being naked ​

 

[AbsintheRed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consulate_of_the_Sea

Tell it to the Aragonese!

It does sound a bit strange, but no more so than the modern term Consulate of the [nation]. Maybe Maritime Consulate would be neater?

I meant it's more of an institution than a building.
Maybe it would be better to add a different name and only speak about the Consulate of the Sea in the Civilopedia?

On the other hand, we have similar naming for other UBs.
Vaivadija is one of the best exampes for this.

Besides, there is only so much that you can learn from being naked ​

Well, I also attended to a Gymnazium instead of a Generic High School. Gimnázium in Hungarian.
It's traditional name here as well. Today it usually means the highest level of learning on a secondary level. (Generic High School << Gymnazium)
We use an entirely different word for the place where you work out.

 

[Force44]

Well, I also attended to a Gymnazium instead of a Generic High School. Gimnázium in Hungarian.
It's traditional name here as well. Today it usually means the highest level of learning on a secondary level. (Generic High School << Gymnazium)
We use an entirely different word for the place where you work out.

I also went to the (albeit dutch) gymnasium as my secondary school. (Over here it is the highest level of secondary learning with mantatory greek or latin.) Found out in class that gymnos meant naked back in the day.

 

[gilgames]

I barely can keep up with this linguistic violence.