Suggestions and Requests

[AbsintheRed]

I have a plan for a gamplay video for all nation, but i cant do it alone if sby is interested in it, send me pm.

Sounds great!

 

[AbsintheRed]

Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore

Actually it's already included.

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

Actually it's already included.

Where?

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

You should add one of the History Rewritten mod diplomacy music for your own diplomacy music like for Venice and Genoa (Italy)

 

[gilgames]

Hey Absinthe!! Now that you are here, can you update us. What's going on with the mod? What you working on, what was done since the last version, what we can expect and what is still on the to do list?

We appreciate any info regarding to these questions.

What about the mission impossible nations? (russia, Lithuanian, ottomans ect)

Thx

 

[AbsintheRed]

You should add one of the History Rewritten mod diplomacy music for your own diplomacy music like for Venice and Genoa (Italy)

Actually I would like to improve the diplo music in RFCE for a long time, with also collecting the relevant info.
Something along the lines with this:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/soundtrack.567943/

On a very related note, ATM I'm working on having separate region/civ specific soundtracks.
Made separate threads about both.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Hey Absinthe!! Now that you are here, can you update us. What's going on with the mod? What you working on, what was done since the last version, what we can expect and what is still on the to do list?

We appreciate any info regarding to these questions.

What about the mission impossible nations? (russia, Lithuanian, ottomans ect)

Thx

Yeah, it's high time I post some details about the development once again.

My modding is about lots of multitasking nowadays... mainly torn between 2 things:

First of all, I want to release a new full version before adding any of the stuff that destroys the current overall balance, the recognized gameplay for most civs.
This release should be rather polished, as this will be the most "finished" version for quite a long time after all the new stuff is added (especially the timeline, which affects almost everything).
So I would still like to do quite a few things with it, improve on a couple civs.

On the other hand, I'm way more inclined to work on the new stuff, which is probably not too surprising.
So development on the already decided new stuff also goes on, and sometimes (well, nowadays usually) that's the stronger part.

So while the polishing is rather slow atm, and that should come first in the mod's life, the new additions are forming nicely in the meantime.
At the moment, I'm pretty sure that the new civs and the new timeline will both come this year.

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

@AbsintheRed when the new version of this mod will be released?

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

This is going to be a almost useless long term criticism but I think this mod has a great work held back by a very fundamental problem: everywhere in the map is almost perfect for a city. And any city can be really important when grown, which imo damages the historical setting.
Maybe it's my personal taste but comparing with the RFC Sword of Islam mod, there are so many grassland tiles in the RFCE map and this makes almost every city identically good/productive. Of course this seems historical at first glance because SoI map has large deserts in Middle East, but the output is that SoI has some few important cities that give that historical feeling and emotional attachment to the cities while RFCE has a snowballing problem with too many perfect cities.

This problem has two outcomes,
first, unimportant cities become as important as important cities, e.g. many cities in Libya can grow as large as Constantinople and can build a wonder quicker than Constantinople, churn out units each turn etc. A city like Cyrene has almost the same terrain with Venice (with even more available tiles!). This gives huge power boost to any country after it developed its land and increases the snowballing problem in the late game. Paris has a good location but so does all the other cities in France, which makes Paris very ordinary.

second, important cities in the crowded parts of Europe are not represented enough. best example is Northern Italy, an average city in Northern Italy like Florence or Milan has too few tiles because cities are too close, but these cities were important and rich, imo they should be able to run more 'good' tiles than a city in e.g. Morocco or Ukraine.

solution ideas:
reasonable one: being harsher with the map, more non-improvable forests, marshes, deserts etc. Paris can be an all good flatland but not Angiers.
unconventional one: change the resource system to something like DoC where your cities actually 'consume' resources, so your cities can't share the bonus from only one instance of a resource until you acquire more instances, instead the core parts of your empire e.g. more cultured cities consume the resource first. This would limit the growth of periphery cities and you could only have an handful perfect cities.

 

[Baron03]

solution ideas:
reasonable one: being harsher with the map, more non-improvable forests, marshes, deserts etc. Paris can be an all good flatland but not Angiers.

I think that Spain, Northern African, the Levant, and Anatolia are 'incomplete' within the map because the new "semi-desert" terrain has only been added to Egypt per the latest revision.

I remember submitting (maybe two years ago?) several screenshots, and possibly a map file about where I would have placed the new semi-desert terrain (as well as the new "islands" terrain as well) based on the Koppen climate map of the Mediterranean region. From what I remember, there's an over abundance of the "Plains" and probably "grassland" tiles in Spain, Northern Africa, Levant, and Anatolia. Although, the "islands" terrain could cause the same problem.

I'm not sure what Absinthe planned for changing the terrain though. I like the idea of adjusting marshes for Eastern Europe, after all there was a lot more wetlands and forests in Europe through the Middle Ages.

 

[AbsintheRed]

This is going to be a almost useless long term criticism but I think this mod has a great work held back by a very fundamental problem: everywhere in the map is almost perfect for a city. And any city can be really important when grown, which imo damages the historical setting.
Maybe it's my personal taste but comparing with the RFC Sword of Islam mod, there are so many grassland tiles in the RFCE map and this makes almost every city identically good/productive. Of course this seems historical at first glance because SoI map has large deserts in Middle East, but the output is that SoI has some few important cities that give that historical feeling and emotional attachment to the cities while RFCE has a snowballing problem with too many perfect cities.

This problem has two outcomes,
first, unimportant cities become as important as important cities, e.g. many cities in Libya can grow as large as Constantinople and can build a wonder quicker than Constantinople, churn out units each turn etc. A city like Cyrene has almost the same terrain with Venice (with even more available tiles!). This gives huge power boost to any country after it developed its land and increases the snowballing problem in the late game. Paris has a good location but so does all the other cities in France, which makes Paris very ordinary.

second, important cities in the crowded parts of Europe are not represented enough. best example is Northern Italy, an average city in Northern Italy like Florence or Milan has too few tiles because cities are too close, but these cities were important and rich, imo they should be able to run more 'good' tiles than a city in e.g. Morocco or Ukraine.

solution ideas:
reasonable one: being harsher with the map, more non-improvable forests, marshes, deserts etc. Paris can be an all good flatland but not Angiers.
unconventional one: change the resource system to something like DoC where your cities actually 'consume' resources, so your cities can't share the bonus from only one instance of a resource until you acquire more instances, instead the core parts of your empire e.g. more cultured cities consume the resource first. This would limit the growth of periphery cities and you could only have an handful perfect cities.

Actually I very much agree.
To all your points, more or less.
Changing the resource system to be quantity based is also very much on the table, but did not make up my mind on it yet.

I think that Spain, Northern African, the Levant, and Anatolia are 'incomplete' within the map because the new "semi-desert" terrain has only been added to Egypt per the latest revision.

I remember submitting (maybe two years ago?) several screenshots, and possibly a map file about where I would have placed the new semi-desert terrain (as well as the new "islands" terrain as well) based on the Koppen climate map of the Mediterranean region. From what I remember, there's an over abundance of the "Plains" and probably "grassland" tiles in Spain, Northern Africa, Levant, and Anatolia. Although, the "islands" terrain could cause the same problem.

I'm not sure what Absinthe planned for changing the terrain though. I like the idea of adjusting marshes for Eastern Europe, after all there was a lot more wetlands and forests in Europe through the Middle Ages.

Indeed, semidesert was added for this purpose, and that's just one step.
The map will see some bigger changes along with the new civs.
Making both terrain and city-spots more diverse is a main point of those updates.
(The always postponed revision of Ukraine/Russia is another one, also improving the province map with adding new ones and redrawing the current ones.)

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

Actually I very much agree.
To all your points, more or less.
Changing the resource system to be quantity based is also very much on the table, but did not make up my mind on it yet.

Indeed, semidesert was added for this purpose, and that's just one step.
The map will see some bigger changes along with the new civs.
Making both terrain and city-spots more diverse is a main point of those updates.
(The always postponed revision of Ukraine/Russia is another one, also improving the province map with adding new ones and redrawing the current ones.)

I am glad these were already considered, I didn't check the RFCE forum in a long time because I thought it was inactive but I just wanted to share this observation without looking at the planned changes.

 

[Baron03]

This isn’t a big change or suggestion, but I think the Portuguese spawn/starting scenario can be adjusted more historically and benefit gameplay. I had this suggestions years ago but looked over it again since I thought about changing Moscow’s spawn.


Portugal’s current situation: They currently spawn in an empty modern day Portugal in 1139 and found Lisbon. “Portucale” flips in the north. The Moors occasionally found a city in the south, Algarve “Burj Munt?” The problem to me is that Portugal is essentially empty and untouched by Spain or Córdoba. Portugal has few challenges, if any, for its early game with regard to its neighbors. It can easily settle the modern day boundaries on its own in a few turns. It’s ahistorical and boring.


Changing Portugal’s spawn:

Spoiler :

My suggestion would be to have Portugal spawn in Portucale/Oporto, and to reduce their flip-zone to one or two tiles above Lisbon. This way, they would have to conquer their way south to Lisbon and then Algarve. Their starting stack is efficient enough to accomplish this.

Possible changes for Lisbon, which would have to exist before Portugal’s spawn:

1. Found an independent “Olisipo” early in the game on Lisbon’s tile. This would serve as a potential target for early Córdoba to conquer (Ulishbunnah), which they historically held for several centuries. Then Portugal has to retake it. Downside, it could be razed, and then there’s the whole cultural instability issue...
2. Change Córdoba’s settler map and province stability so that Lisbon can be founded by them. Downside, a city a tile or two away may be founded instead. However, this would help the area become settled.

An alternate proposal: Move Portugal’s spawn a little earlier to 1128, marking when Afonso Henriques effectively took control of Portugal at the Battle of São Mamede. I think their current spawn date is fine though.

I think that adding an independent Lisbon for Córdoba to conquer, and then Portugal to conquer creates a more historical Iberia while also creating more interesting gameplay. It is better in my opinion then leaving the area unsettled until 1139.

Edit: the main drawback for me would be the AI having to conquer Lisbon quickly, whether it is independent or not.

Russia/Moscow: This is how I imagined a starting situation in 1325. Photo taken from a screenshot of landmarks.

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

The last time RFCE was updated was in 2017.

 

[AbsintheRed]

The last time RFCE was updated was in 2017.

The last update was a couple months ago (2020.03.19), while another bigger one is coming very soon.

Having said that, a full release is long due, mostly for people not using the SVN version.
(Also because I won't start adding/uploading all the shiny new stuff until it's released.)

 

[Baron03]

The last update was a couple months ago (2020.03.19), while another bigger one is coming very soon.

Having said that, a full release is long due, mostly for people not using the SVN version.
(Also because I won't start adding/uploading all the shiny new stuff until it's released.)

always excited to hear about another update!

Somewhat related: was the barbarian peasant spawning from SOI figured out, or will that be considered much later in development along with a potential return to random events? My guess is that it was a low probability spawn for any civ running Orthodoxy or Catholicism with increased probability depending on civics (Feudal ones).

I remember that you liked the suggestion to add it some time ago.

 

[AbsintheRed]

No, this is not planned for 1.7.
Maybe alongside a civic redesign (or at least civic update), which will be needed after new techs are added for the new timeline.

 

[Baron03]

It’s been a little quiet here, but I searched for some quotes that matched the potential new technologies that could be added to the mod later on.

It doesn’t impact gameplay; but if any of these techs are added to the expanded timeline, then I’m hoping this will be useful. I also looked for some replacement quotes...

Potential New Techs

Spoiler :

"Early Medieval"
Fortification - Joachim du Bellay
These blocks of stone you see, this ancient wall,
We're wattles once around a country mead;
These splendid palaces whose sides now fall
Were sheepcots where a rustic flock would feed.

Militia Levy - Honorius of Autun
"Soldiers: You are the arm of the Church, because you should defend it against its enemies.... Performing such a service, you will obtain the most splendid of benefices from the greatest if Kings."

Waterwheel/Waterpower - Lucretius
"Continual dropping wears away a stone."

Heavy Plough - none yet
Horse collar - none yet
Crop rotation - none yet

"High/Late Medieval"
Scholasticism - Desiderius Erasmus
"I know how busy you are in your library, which is your Paradise."

Natural Law - St. Thomas Aquinas
"Hence this is the first precept of law, that good is to be done and promoted, and evil is to be avoided."

Shaft Mining - bernardino Ramazzini
"Miners: they came up into the untainted open air looking as ghastly as the retinue of the god of the underworld because of their stay in those foul dark places. Whatever metal they mine, they invite dreadful diseases which too often mock at every remedy..."

Mendicant Orders - none yet

Long Distance Trade - Anonymous crew member from Vasco da Gama's expedition.
"The vessels of this country are of good size and decked. There are no nails, and the planks are held together by chords... The sails are made of plain matting. Their mariners have Genoese needles by which they steer, quadrants, and navigating charts."

Heraldry/Coat of Arms - unknown contemporary chronicler of Poiters (1356)
"Then you might see banners and pennons unfurled to the wind, whereon fine gold and azure shone, purple, gules and ermine. Trumpets, horns, and clarions-you might hear sounding through the camp; the Dauphin's great battle made the earth ring."

Lamination/Bodkin Arrow - Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream
The moon, like to a silver bow
New-bent in heaven

Pole Arms - John Milton
No war, or battle's sound
Was heard the world round.
The idle spear and shield were high up hung.

Oil Painting - Giovanni Rucellai
"[Florence] is considered the finest and most beautiful city - not only in Christendom - but in the entire world."

Usury - Saint Thomas Aquinas
"To take usury for money lent is unjust in itself, because this is to sell what does not exist, and is evidently leads to inequality which is contrary to justice."

Standard Currency - David Hume
"Money is not, properly speaking, one of the subjects of commerce; but only the instrument, which men have agreed upon to facilitate the exchange of one commodity for another."

City/Town Charters - King Henry II of England, 1157
"Henry, by the grace of God, etc... Know that I have granted to my citizens of Lincoln all their liberties and customs and laws which they had in the time of Edward and William and Henry, kings of England."

Sanitation - John Evelyn, 1661
"In London we see people walk and converse pursued and haunted by that infernal smoke. The inhabitants breathe nothing but an impure and thick mist, accompanied by a fuliginous and filthy vapor... corrupting the lungs and disordering the entire habit of their bodies."

Quarantining - A Genoese nun 1656
"A very great number of poor people live in crowded conditions. There are ten to twelve families per house and most frequently one finds eight or more people sharing one room and having neither water nor any other facility available."

Monastic Reform - Benedict of Nursia
"Listen carefully, my son, to the master's instruction, and attend to them with the ear of your heart."

Pilgrimage - Francesco di Marco
"On this 18th day of August1399, I, Francesco di Marco, through the inspiration of God and his Mother our Lady, resolved to go on a pilgrimage, clothed entirely in white linen and barefoot. As was the custom then from many people in the city..."

Humanism - Benevento Cellini
My cruel fate hath warr'd with me in vain:
Life, glory, worth, and all unmeasur'd skill,
Beauty and grace, themselves in me fulfill
That many I surpass, and to the best attain.

Replacement Quotes for current Techs

Spoiler :

Aristocracy - Sigismund Herberstein, 16th Century German traveler to Russia
"All the people consider themselves to be 'Kholops', that is salves of their Prince."

Giovanni Morelli "Connect yourself by marriage with those who are in power..."

Giovanni Rucellai "I would not advise you to seek or desire offices and political influence. There is nothing which I esteem less, or which seems less honorable, than to be involved in public affairs."

Gothic architecture - Suger, abbot of Saint-Denis
"by virtue of which the whole [church] would shine with the wonderful and uninterrupted light of the most sacred windows, pervading the interior beauty."

Clock making - A Lombard document dated 1595
"The year consists of 365 days, but 96 are holy days, and thus one is left with 269. Of these, a great many are lost, mostly in wintertime and even at other times, because if snow and rain. Another part of the year is lost because everyone does not always find work, except in the three months of June, July, and August."

Code of laws - St. Thomas Aquinas
"Law, being a rule and measure, can be in a person two ways: in one way, as in him that rules and measures; in another way, as in that which is ruled and measured, since a thing is ruled and measured insofar as it partakes of the rule or measure."

Free market - Pierre-Paul Mercier De La Rivière
"I have pointed out that the natural and fundamental order of society calls for the greatest possible freedom of foreign trade in the common interest of both the sovereign and the nation."

Guilds - Leaders of the Ciompi Conspiracy
"Long live the Popolo and the guilds, and death to the tyrants! O citizens! O workers! Arise and escape from your yoke of servitude, for your rulers are going to starve you!"

Economics - Adam Smith
"The actual price at which any commodity is commonly sold is called its market price. It may either be above, or below, or exactly the same with its natural price."

Industrial Revolution - Leon Battista Alberti
"Men can do all things if they will."

As a side note; I noticed that the Mongolian invasion of Ukraine begins with spawning keshiks at the eastern edge of the map. By the time they begin reaching Kiev, the conquest of the Rus was historically completed. Maybe this could be changed to have larger unit stacks close to Kiev?

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

@Baron03 Glad someone posted here. RFC Europe hasn't been active for a while.

 

[ganker14]

Is it still active? I keep playing it from time to time.

Anyway, I've been trying a few civs after the last update (svn) and I noticed the first byzantium UHV changed, including also "Latium".. Is that even possible?
Otherwise, the text could be fixed